Political Discussions at Work

Moogie · Mar 11, 2011

It is completely inappropriate to talk politics in the presence of a patient. Especially considering how volatile the situation is in Wisconsin right now, I would imagine that this sort of talk could have deeply distressed the patient and possibly impacted his/her mental status post-operatively. If I was the patient, I would be complaining about this.

The patient should not have been made to feel uncomfortable. Period. It doesn't matter is the conversation was about politics, religion, or American Idol, professionals should know better to keep quiet, especially when someone is going under anesthesia for surgery.

Southern Fried RN · Mar 11, 2011

I think this might backfire in your face. It's one thing for the surgeons to disparage a political figure. Unless the surgeon is calling *you* a moron for supporting the other side, harassing you with questions about your viewpoint, etc, I don't think you have much of a case to claim it's "illegal" or a hostile work environment.

I have to agree with CRNA1982, unless it's REALLY BAD, there is probably nothing that will be permanently change. Think of all the surgeons who have reputations for cursing out OR staff or throwing instruments at them during the case. Then think about how many have actually been fired from the hospital over such matters that are far worse and should never occur. I doubt anything will happen more than a few weeks or so of no political talk and little comments like "oh we can't discuss that since someone will report us."

I agree with where you are coming from, I think it's inappropriate to talk politics with patients around. However, the reality is that administration typically does very little to discipline surgeons, while nurses are treated as expendable.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Mar 11, 2011

As my name indicates, I am a nurse in the operating room. Since I've started, I have had to endure political discussions by surgeons who assume that everyone in the room agree with them. I do not. Because we are not on equal footing, I feel that I can't speak up. So, I am left listening to them espousing their views, and feeling wholly uncomfortable to express my own. I know that I wouldn't be fired for expressing my opinion, however, I could be blackballed from that surgeon's room. I've born this burden quietly, until today. I was doing a case in which the patient was awake. The surgeon, anesthesia provider, and tech were all bad-mouthing Wisconsin public unions and stating their vociferous support for our Governor. My patient said something to the effect of, "I'm probably the only person in the room who supports our president and thinks that that Walker guy is a buffoon." I said, "No, you're not alone. There are two of us." I was mortified! It's one thing to have these discussions when the patient is asleep, and I'm the only one being made to feel uncomfortable. It's a completely different situation when my patient is made to feel as though he is an outsider! I don't like to make waves, but I feel that this conduct was SO inappropriate that I need to sit down tomorrow with my director.
All of our patients pass through the same corridors on their way to the OR. The last time that my director was on vacation, I had to remove a racist, sexist print-out about Michelle Obama from that corridor! I've tried to coast along and go with the flow, but I am at my wit's end! Regardless of one's political affiliation, this behavior is utterly inappropriate. And tomorrow, I'm going to see that it stops. Anyone have any similar experiences/wisdom to share? It would be much appreciated.

Agree surgeons were inappropriate.

However this is one of those things that it's smarter to tolerate and keep mouth shut.

Just like the lame music I imagine you have to tolerate sometimes.

This is one of those battles a nurse is just not going to win.

I have lots of surgical experience and have found that surgeons often live in a little social bubble - par for the course listening to political conversations and natter about their yachts, tuscany holidays and kids private schools.

Not to mention (in Australia anyway) that faux upper class British voice a lot of them pick up. that I find is quite irritating.

Sometimes I have felt miles away (as a middle class person living on a couple of above average professional incomes) - I assume they must not be so risk averse and therefore have huge mortgages and debt on the boats and holiday homes

CRNA1982 · Mar 11, 2011

I think this might backfire in your face. It's one thing for the surgeons to disparage a political figure. Unless the surgeon is calling *you* a moron for supporting the other side, harassing you with questions about your viewpoint, etc, I don't think you have much of a case to claim it's "illegal" or a hostile work environment.
I have to agree with CRNA1982, unless it's REALLY BAD, there is probably nothing that will be permanently change. Think of all the surgeons who have reputations for cursing out OR staff or throwing instruments at them during the case. Then think about how many have actually been fired from the hospital over such matters that are far worse and should never occur. I doubt anything will happen more than a few weeks or so of no political talk and little comments like "oh we can't discuss that since someone will report us."
I agree with where you are coming from, I think it's inappropriate to talk politics with patients around. However, the reality is that administration typically does very little to discipline surgeons, while nurses are treated as expendable.

You could not be more right......Everyday I see O.R. personnel (NOT JUST SURGEONS) but scrub techs, nurses etc making off-color remarks. But surgeons bring revenue to the hospital.....this is the reality. The bottom line is money and unfortunately this pretty much sums up everything in life. Surgeons can pretty much do or say what they want, when they want. I know of co-workers who have reported inappropriate behavior on a surgeons behalf on many occasions and it has gone nowhere. I have also heard of nurses complaining to HR about general verbal inappropriateness among all O.R. employees. Guess what always happens? People talk and everyone eventually finds out who reported to H.R. and who was complaining. To the original poster, I say "Do what you want but know that this may follow you throughout your career in your position. And many of your co-workers may not look at you or talk to you in the same way again." I'm sure that there will be many of you who don't agree with me on this but I have "been there and seen that." Just my $0.02.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Mar 11, 2011

Also - worth flipping it around too.

Surgeons have had to tolerate me too ...with all my gaffes and relative lack of knowledge.

And I'm sure not perfect - things have been known to fly out of my mouth sometimes

bagladyrn, RN · Mar 12, 2011

I've been in this situation on various units from time to time. I've handled it in several ways: I've "innocently" enthused about the rally I went to for the "other party" candidate (as though I don't already know the views of most of the staff), I exaggerate my leanings - self describing as "Left wing, liberal, feminist, Democrat tree-hugger"(adding adjectives as I think of them)-which gets the message across in a humorous manner.

Lately I've quietly mentioned that my father and grandfather (and multiple other relatives) were lifelong union men. With the rare person who can discuss opposing views without rancor I let them know I'd love to discuss the issues on break or off work.

With patients I do not discuss it - I pass it off with neutral remarks such as "That's a really difficult issue".

drgnflydggr · Mar 12, 2011

You're absolutely right, CRNA1982, that was a generalized statement, and I apologize. In my haste to reply, I neglected to make it clear that I was referring only to this one CRNA and a few docs. I work with amazing anesthetists, surgeons, CRNA's, RN's, and techs every day. My message was in no way intended to malign the good, hardworking, patient-care minded folks. I offer my humblest apologies for my mis-statement.

drgnflydggr · Mar 12, 2011

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I am taking them all under advisement.

exnavygirl-RN · Mar 13, 2011

I stay out of discussions about politics and religion at work. If I see anything inappropriate posted or sent via e-mail bashing any political figure I remove it. It irritates the heck out of me that some folks assume everyone shares their opinion. :mad:

CloudySue · Mar 13, 2011

Every job has its negative aspects that one must deal with. In waitressing it's rude customers and uncontrolled children. In education it's apathetic students and uninvolved parents. Here you have to listen to arrogant pompous doctors discuss issues on which they have a narrow world view. The way I see it, part of the job (and therefore the paycheck) is dealing with these things. It's not personal, even though it feels so deeply personal. You are not there to do anything except perform your job. It's hard to not speak up but that's not why you are there.

I am a private duty peds nurse, and I work for a rather wealthy business owner whose family is very conservative, and although they are very nice, warm, loving people, I still have to keep my mouth shut to their "let them eat cake" attitudes towards the poor and less fortunate. My client just the other day was blasting Michelle Obama, on how she can't stand her, she seems so snotty, etc. and I just kept my mouth shut. I love her but it's not my job to debate her. Then there was the day the mother was telling me all about her day protesting in front of the women's health center. I just smile and make neutral statements. It's not my job to enlighten them or even be contrary for the sake of standing up for my viewpoints. My job is to follow my client's care plan, be sure she remains healthy and injury-free during my shift. And that's it.

exnavygirl-RN · Mar 13, 2011

Well said!!

I just smile and make neutral statements. It's not my job to enlighten them or even be contrary for the sake of standing up for my viewpoints. My job is to follow my client's care plan, be sure she remains healthy and injury-free during my shift. And that's it.

EponaRN · Mar 13, 2011

Unfortunately unless the patient complains and HR or someone asks you, it may be a losing battle. As stated earlier, you are expendable. Maybe now that the "cat is out of the bag" so to speak, they will stop waxing poetically on all that ails society. Or you could just once say "I agree there is a problem, now what can we do to fix it?" Usually that shuts people up because their complaining is out of either self righteousness or low self worth. If that doesn't work, change the subject. There is a way to be diplomatic and effective without putting your paycheck on the line. As an RN in Wisconsin, I can imagine the hospital you may work for, they all have certain reputations that one shall not name.