Please help new grad - situation with pt (long)

Specialties Ob/Gyn

Published

I am a new ADN grad, started working in a busy postpartum unit in in February of this year, I work nights.

I have always been the type of person to have a "sense" about things and when I ignore it, I am usually sorry later. Could be as benign as driving to at ATM, I get a "feeling" and the machine eats my card. Or as serious as just "knowing" this person is dangerous or is very ill.

For example, I was on my first week of orientation I disagreed with my preceptor on the care of a pt. She said the woman was just "whining", I felt the woman was not properly assessed or taken care of by either her or the MD which did a quick 60 second check. This lady had been restless, c/o pain, teary, slight fever in the 99's. Told me her first c-section scar got infected and she had to go "back to the hospital". Well, two days after she went home she was back in the hospital - septic from an infection. I felt something was wrong but didn't persist.

Sooooooo, you would have thought I would have learned from this situation but in practice I find myself intimidated by doctors and impressed by nurses who have much more experience than I. There is so much I don't know, experiences I haven't had yet. I look to our charge nurse and our mentor to help me. Well, Wednesday night I worked and when I came in the day shift RN immediately said this patient was having troubles and the doctor had been called. This day shift RN has at least 20 yrs experience but has recently returned to the floor after management for many years. She is also new to the postpartum unit.

I came in at 1900 Wednesday night. Day shift RN explained the patient had a lady partsl hysterectomy so no incision, lady partsl packing and a foley inserted. Patient was a 32 y/o and had been c/o pain and feeling of pressure in abdomen. Pt had a hx of IBS, 3 children. Foley was not draining much urine and there were white flecks in urine, which was cloudy. Pt had labs done prior to surgery (Wednesday am) which were WNL. Pt was receiving Clindamycin IVPB q8h. Day RN had pulled the Foley, pt stated she obtained relief from pressure, then RN reinserted, pt stated pressure returned. Foley was draining, but not much. About 30-50cc per hour which we know is adequate but didn't seem like enough given all the fluid this pt had received. Day RN stated this patient was receiving Dilaudid 0.5 mg IV q2h as ordered. At this point I had a bad feeling and called my charge RN to let her know I was going to need assist with this patient. She stated she was busy but would send mentor up to assist me.

I went in and did my assessment with day RN present. Pulses were fine everywhere, pt had pressure stockings on. All VSS were at baseline for pt before surgery, during surgery and all day - no changes. Lungs were clear all fields. Abdomen seemed soft but slightly distended, particularly bladder. Abdomen was slightly tender to touch but not overly so. We did a bladder scan to find 200cc inside (I also rechecked this later in the evening around 2200 with same results - approx 200cc). When I listened to abdomen I heard no bowel sounds at all during the 3-4 minutes I listened but I heard a strong pulse (heartbeat) in all quadrants which I had never heard before. I quietly mentioned this to the day RN and she stated, "I noticed that too". This worried me but I finished my assessment. Stat H&H was ordered over phone to be ready when MD arrived. Hgb was 9.1 down from 12.9 presurgery with an estimated blood loss of only 100cc in surgery! We put this on front of chart to discuss with MD. This worried me quite a bit..

While waiting for MD to arrive, day RN stated she would be there for another half hour so I decided to at least check in with my two other patients who had not been assessed or seen and it was 2000.. Again I voiced concerns about pulsing in abdomen to day RN. Day RN stated she didn't know what this meant. Pt was not emaciated or very thin, she was a normal weight - so what did this mean, I thought? Day RN had no anwers for me. Mentor arrived, went in to assess pt, I mentioned my concerns to her as well re: low H&H, pulsing in abdomen, low urine output, retained urine in bladder, flecks in urine, pressure in abdomen, unrelieved pain. She didn't see anything of note, advised me to wait for MD to arrive.

MD arrived around 2030 to assess pt when I was in doing another assessment of my other pts. Day RN still there so she was with him, she was transcribing the new orders when I went back to nurses' station so unfortunately I never got to talk to MD directly but upon reflection I felt it was more appropriate that day RN speak with him since I had only seen pt once for initial assessment and Day RN had been with pt all day. MD ordered 500cc bolus given over 2 hrs, then to continue 125cc/hr of D5LR, a k-pad (heating pad) to abdomen and repeat H&H in morning. I was not happy when I heard these orders, I had been hoping he would order some sort of scan to search for fluid in abdomen or repeat H&H sooner than the AM. I inquired to both day RN and mentor why this bolus would help and what about H&H, pulsing in abdomen and urine output/retention? Many reasons were given: sometimes you can hear pulsing in thin people, urine output met the minimum, etc. So...

I was still disturbed about this patient but she seemed stable. O2 sats and all vitals good and she seemed relatively comfortable so I went to finish assessments of other patients. Day RN left, mentor stayed with me most of evening on and off. At 2300 MD called to check on patient. I told him that her dose of dilaudid was giving some relief but not completely - and that she still c/o pain/pressure in abdomen. Told him I was concerned about her. He stated to "give it a chance" and medicate as ordered with heating pad. MD felt that the pain in abdomen was due to her IBS. "How could this be?" I thought to myself. "She has no bowel sounds and hasn't all day so how could the pain be due to bowel spasms?" But I didn't say this because again, I thought: do I know more than the MD?

So at this point, her VSS still stable and condition basically unchanged but still I felt uneasy. The mentor told me the Operations Supervisor was coming up in a few minutes. I said, "OH great, to assess pt?" She stated, "No, to bring heating pad." Still, I thought, maybe I'll ask her to take a look at the patient too, just to assess. She arrived, chatting busily on phone, dropped heating pad and wheeled around and left. I could have said something but thought, "Oh well I don't want to bother her"

At midnight after phone call with MD, spoke to charge RN in person this time telling her about foley not draining/retention, H&H low, pain meds not working well, pt uncomfortable, white flecks in urine, Mentioned that I was afraid our director would say I didn't advocate for pt, what could I do, should I do more? She stated MD had assessed pt so I was covered and in addition, mentor had assessed and been with patient several times.. I thought, "Maybe I'M covered but I want the PATIENT to be covered" but I didn't say anything.

Continued with evening, at one point pt stated she felt dizzy. Mentor was with me and we pPut o2 on, her sats were fine, she felt better. Not surprised she was dizzy as she hadn't eaten in nearly 48 hrs and was taking IV dilaudid. Checked for bowel sounds, still nothing but pulsing present, no changes in VS. At 0100 went to lunch but brought my food back to desk so I could keep an eye on her, kept her door open so I could even see in door while charting/eating, etc. The midnight dose of dilaudid/nubain seemed to help her rest and I was hoping she was on the mend.

At approximately 0200 I was dealing with another baby who had a bili of 12.1 coombs + at 44 hrs. I thought it could wait till morning, charge RN advised me to call MD at 0300, who was not pleased. When I gave my report at approx 0400 I again addressed my concerns with charge RN regarding my primary pt but she stated again, "Mentor assessed pt. What did she think?" So I basically shut up. Kept thinking what do I, a lowly new grad with four months' experience know? Do I know more than the MD who saw the lab results, assessed her belly and took a look at her and saw nothing? Better than the charge RN and mentor? So I just watched pt closely. Heating pad provided little relief so I kept bringing her warm baby blankets from warmer to hold to her stomach. This kept me coming in about q30 minutes to give her new ones so this was ok by me. I kept door to her room open through rest of night.

Between 0300 and 0500 pt seemed to be doing better and I got busy with all the charting I didn't do. Mentor recommended I medicate pt with higher dose of dilaudid to see if she obtained relief but I was afraid it would mask symptoms. She ended up having 4 doses of 0.5 mg Dilauded during my 12 hr shift and I felt that was a lot for someone young with a minor surgery. I didn't want her to be in horrible pain but I wanted to see if something suddenly got much worse. So I told mentor no, I was not going to increase the dose/frequency and gave her my reasoning.

6am, the lab did their draw, not a stat draw just timed. At 7:15 they called to say pt's hgb was 6.4. It had dropped from 9.1 to 6.4 in about 10 hrs overnight while she sat in bed. Day RN and I discussed who should call MD (this took about 60 seconds) - she said she should since she would be there when MD arrive. I said I should since I had been with pt the last 12 hrs. I immediately paged MD then, while waiting for a callback, notified charge RN of situation by phone. MD called back and I quickly told him concerns, lab results. He said, "Sounds like she is probably bleeding" I stated, "YES, I THINK SO. WILL YOU COME IN?" He stated he was coming "soon". "WHEN?" I stated. He assured me within the hour... then mentioned he "might" want to take her to the OR. He was ready to hang up when I said, "DR X - DO YOU WANT ME TO PREPARE HER FOR SURGERY??? Order tests?" He said, "Oh yes, type and cross for 2 units" so I immediately put in this order to the lab stat and called to make sure they were coming.

Well I went home late around 0815, lab had just come to type and cross and MD was on route and the same day RN was back on shift assisting pt. Pt was informed of possibility of surgery, consents were being signed. I called when I woke up later that day around 1330 to check, day RN stated pt went to OR and was bleeding internally and lost about 600cc of blood just sitting in her abdomen. They were not able to find active bleeding at that time. Our director of women's services had met with Day RN stating she didn't provide good care and stated she wanted to speak to me also. I was shaking but I called her back to get it over with and speak to her. She felt I had let the patient down and wanted to know precise sequence of events.

I have been thinking about nothing else since. When that woman's husband left that night, he told his wife, "You're in good hands" and went home to sleep, He and his wife (pt) trusted me to advocate for her and I basically just provided comfort care (companionship, medication and positioning/heating pad). All night this pt laid there bleeding with pain not completely relieved. I let her suffer needlessly and she could have bled out. I didn't advocate for her like I should of, I KNEW something was wrong and didn't call that doctor and insist he come back in or order more tests to help her. I feel so bad. I know exactly where I went wrong looking back, what I want to know is tips for being persistant and advocating for the pt without being afraid people will laugh or yell at me if I am wrong. My assessment skills were right on from the beginning, my intuition correct, my interventions good, just my follow through was bad.

Advice?

Melissa

Specializes in Gerontological Nursing, Acute Rehab.
With four months of experience you did a great job!! I understand the feeling of wanting to trust your gut, but not doing that because of intimidation. I am so disappointed that no one supported you. YOU were the patient's #1 advocate.

It was obviously a slow enough bleed that the VS stayed normal, or others would have caught on too. You have great instincts that will take you far in your career.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

L.

I agree with bandemom.....as a brand new nurse you should have had more support from some of the senior nurses on duty, and you should feel good about yourself that you have such great instincts. I have been a nurse for 10 years, and there are still times that I doubt myself or my instincts....don't beat yourself up, you're still new at this. I still have days where I feel great, and then turn around and feel like I don't know anything. It's normal. I'd be more afraid if you walked around thinking you knew it all. You asked for help, you got other nurses opinions, and you informed the doctor. I don't think there was anything else that could have been done that would have changed the outcome (except maybe demanding that the doc come in in the middle of the night....but we all know that wouldn't have happened.)

I'm also disappointed in the director for chewing you out.....at this point in your career you need guidance and instruction...not criticism. Also, was there a house supervisor on duty that you could have called to assess and chart a note? Just a thought.

Relax and take a deep breath. You are a good nurse. You did your job to the best of your ability. Don't let this one incident get you down. Just learn from it and move on.

....I'm also disappointed in the director for chewing you out.....at this point in your career you need guidance and instruction...not criticism. Also, was there a house supervisor on duty that you could have called to assess and chart a note? Just a thought.

Yes, she is called the OS or operations supervisor, she was the person I referred to that the Mentor told me was coming up and I mistakenly thought she had called her to assess the pt further but she only came to drop off the heating pad and was on the phone so I didn't speak up. I will take advantage of this resource next time around.

Thanks to everyone who read through this long post to offer help, guidance and comments, I really appreciate it.

Melissa

Specializes in ER.

Mellissa, You sound like you know your stuff don't let this situation make you dought your skills. I have neen an LPN for 5 years and am a new RN I am almost through my orientation with a great precepter but on the second day I went to give a tetorifice shot ( yes I know that is so simple), and my preceptor said I needed a smaller needle to give it SQ. Well I have given alot of tetorifice shots in my day and they are IM I said that and we went together to look it up, I was right and well I think he felt stupid but we foung the answer together and I now have something to tease him about!!

Specializes in Med-Surg, Psych.

Melissa,

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to post about this situation. As a 2nd year Nursing student, it was beneficial to hear about this patient. Thank you for sharing...

(((hugs)))

Specializes in ER.

Dilaudid and Nubain work on the same receptors but in opposite ways, so essentially the meds can cancel each other out and give a sum total of no relief. Thats why they shouldn't be given together.

I read down your scenario and thought "abdominal aneurysm" when you mentioned the pulsations and unrelieved pain and restlessness. I kept reading wondering if the patient survived. I agree with the other posters that YOU did everything you could possibly do, but I think the experienced RNs really let this patient down. They knew how much pain to expect from the surgery, what the normal responses were to the meds, and supposedly have a better honed sense of things not being right. An experienced RN can call a doc and ask them to come assess a patient just based on that prickly "not OK" feeling, but as a new grad you couldn't. Especially after your preceptor assessed and didn't admit to the same feelings.

I think the director was out of line- what- were you supposed to go against your preceptor and call in the cavalry? No way...that would be a huge mark against you with the other staff, even if you were right. They wouldn't trust you after that, and besides, you are learning what is OK and what's not right now. No, you could not have done more.

Now you have some new information for the future, on drug interactions, on patient responses that will indicate danger, and on how much to trust your own instincts. One piece of assessment you could have done was orthostatic vital signs when the patient complained of dizziness. But I don't think it would have resulted in anything more than a fluid bolus- but you would have had another objective sign of trouble to add to your documentation.

I also respectfully disagree with a previous poster who said the patient was better off going to the OR in the morning. I don't believe this patient was ever stable, and very likely to go down the tubes throughout the night. If clinical signs say a trip to the OR is needed sooner is better than later in my opinion. Unless you are replacing fluids/giving antibiotics/etc to make the patient stronger to survive the surgery.

Thanks for the the info about dilaudid and nubain. I know these meds were still ordered for this pt as of last night. If this is the case, I wonder why no other RN has noticed this and why the MD ordered it and pharmacy approved it to be added to the med list?!?

I am really grateful for all your input. Just to clarify - it wasn't my preceptor I was working with in this situation. The short example I gave happened when I was still doing orientation, but the main story was just Wed night and I have been taking my own patients since April - but I did consult with the charge RN (did not assess pt personally) and the mentor (did assess pt several times) and they didn't feel a call to the MD was warranted.

I haven't really gotten an answer from anyone re: the pulsations in all quadrants of abdomen. What did they signify? I had never heard these before and they were very clear and strong, nearly as strong as if I were listening to the apex of the heart, which I thought was very odd. I didn't know what this meant though, and still don't - I just knew it made me uneasy. None of the nurses I asked were able to give me an answer!

Melissa

Dilaudid and Nubain work on the same receptors but in opposite ways, so essentially the meds can cancel each other out and give a sum total of no relief. Thats why they shouldn't be given together.

I read down your scenario and thought "abdominal aneurysm" when you mentioned the pulsations and unrelieved pain and restlessness. I kept reading wondering if the patient survived. I agree with the other posters that YOU did everything you could possibly do, but I think the experienced RNs really let this patient down. They knew how much pain to expect from the surgery, what the normal responses were to the meds, and supposedly have a better honed sense of things not being right. An experienced RN can call a doc and ask them to come assess a patient just based on that prickly "not OK" feeling, but as a new grad you couldn't. Especially after your preceptor assessed and didn't admit to the same feelings.

I think the director was out of line- what- were you supposed to go against your preceptor and call in the cavalry? No way...that would be a huge mark against you with the other staff, even if you were right. They wouldn't trust you after that, and besides, you are learning what is OK and what's not right now. No, you could not have done more.

Now you have some new information for the future, on drug interactions, on patient responses that will indicate danger, and on how much to trust your own instincts. One piece of assessment you could have done was orthostatic vital signs when the patient complained of dizziness. But I don't think it would have resulted in anything more than a fluid bolus- but you would have had another objective sign of trouble to add to your documentation.

I also respectfully disagree with a previous poster who said the patient was better off going to the OR in the morning. I don't believe this patient was ever stable, and very likely to go down the tubes throughout the night. If clinical signs say a trip to the OR is needed sooner is better than later in my opinion. Unless you are replacing fluids/giving antibiotics/etc to make the patient stronger to survive the surgery.

Melissa,

You did an outstanding job...don't let anyone tell you differently. I think you did advocate for the pt. To the day RN, your Mentor, the supervisor, and the doctor. Remember this old saying "You can lead a horse to water but it's upto that horse to drink" That is exactly what happened, you led them, they didn't drink. As time goes on you will gain high respects for your knowledge, I would bet that you did already from those other RN's and the Doctor.

When we come out of school it is interesting because...we know so little, however everything is so fresh in our mind that we may pick up a little more than purhaps someone like me who has been working for 5 yrs as a nurse(in RN school, LPN now). I remember that happened to me in a nursing home with the pulse pressure and cranial bleeding/hemorrhage/pressure. Every other nurse forgot it.

I agree with the nurse that posted the same outcome would most likely have come about. I believe you did your job and over time you will learn ways to be more forceful with MD's and other nurses when you are following your gut instinct. I have worked with both kinds of doctors those who listen to their nurses and those who don't. Even turned one around once...LOL

To me, it sounds as if no matter how you would have said this...the same reactions would have taken place, based upon the personality types that came apparent in your posting....When you explained the pt. s/sx did you say something like....pulsing in the abdomen is a sign of an abdominal aneurysm??? Or I learned this in school, what do you think??? I have used that with doctors before...such and such s/sx present when this dx is present what is your opinion? What is awesome about that is that it is also a great learning experience, because most of the time a doctor will be like, yes I can see that conclusion but what about such and such and go into other detail to educate you further. God I love that...I am a civilian nurse now working on a military base, I work for an outstanding PA...we often hold debates on the s/sx that are presented...I have learned a great deal...I love it. Also helped him dx a pt. that had hodgkins disease..because he listened to me and respected my knowledge....It will happen for you hun...your an amazing new grad...you are going to get more amazing as time goes on!!!

You know I would let you be my nurse anytime, keep up the good work girl!!!

Specializes in ER.

From http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic27.htm

Expanding AAA causes sudden, severe, and constant low back, flank, abdominal, or groin pain. Syncope may be the chief complaint, and pain may be a less significant symptom to the patient.

Patients with a ruptured AAA may present in frank shock as evidenced by cyanosis, mottling, altered mental status, tachycardia, and hypotension.

Presence of an abdominal bruit or lateral propagation of the aortic pulse wave offer subtle clues and may be more frequently found than the pulsatile mass. Presence of a pulsatile abdominal mass is virtually diagnostic but is found in less than half of cases

From http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/nalbuphine.htm

NUBAIN (nalbuphine hydrochloride) is a synthetic opioid agonist-antagonist analgesic.

The antagonistic part means it competes with the opioid (Dilaudid).

Just a thought- if you were on a postpartum floor- you can frequently hear an abdominal pulse on postpartum mothers, I always thought it was because of the huge blood supply to the uterus that hadn't reduced in size yet. Perhaps having that as a normal finding so frequently dulled the response to it as an abnormal finding?

wow... I also wonder if she survived.... (and, after hearing/seeing the heartbeat in the belly, you always remember AAA.... its the first thing I thought too, Canoehead)

out of curiousity, anynew info on the patients condition (basically, just wanna knew if she made it through the day...)

--Cashew

Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.

Your director is a jerk. The physician and two more experienced nurses assessed the patient and walked away, why is she/he holding your feet to the fire?

I honestly don't think you could have done anything more. It sounds like you assessed her quite thoroughly for goodness sake. The only thing I would disagree with is not medicating her pain because it would mask symptoms, but that's a line you will learn to walk with time.

You've already received some good advice from others. The only advice I have for you at this point is to move on. This anxiety and second-guessing is not good for you. There will be times in your career when a patient has a bad outcome despite everything; remember it's not all your responsibility. One of the great things about hospital nursing is that you do not own that patient solely and there are always other eyes to assess the patient and they belong to you for that 8 or 12 hours only.You have to ask yourself what have you learned from this experience and just apply it next time. In this case, the patient survived without serious complications, no? Well, as far as I'm concerned then things worked out.

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.
mstigerlilly wrote: dilaudid/nubain

Please tell me this pt was not getting dilaudid and nubain...BIG BIG no-no.

I'm curious why this is a no-no as well (we do it all the time with pcea dilaudid and nubain for the itching - these patients are usually not intubated).

EDIT: Nevermind...didn't see previous post addressing this. This, I've gotta look into.

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

I also thought AAA - pulsating in the abdomen is a hallmark sign. Flank pain is a very common symptom.

Nice work OP! I know nothing about L&D, but I'm in agreement with pricklypear's posts. Your patient was stable, except for unrelieved pain. I also agree that your director is a jerk and I don't get what prompted a review of this patient as far as you are concerned?

Here's what I think about the pain. I think not relieving the pain was masking the symptoms more than treating the pain would have. If you had relieved the pain she would have been relaxed. Her vitals would have truely reflected the effects of the blood loss. Her bp would have probably plummeted. But because she was in pain, her bp maintained abnormally. This is the body's way of compensating. If her bleeding wasn't eventually addessed she would pooped out from having to maintain a pressure: her pressure would plummet, she would have gotten extremely tachycardic (was she tachy), tachypneic, and be well on her way to a code. (this could have happen overnight)

But to relieve pain in this situation, she would have required a lot of med due to the nature of what was going on. She was bleeding internally - that's gotta hurt. The amount of pain med she probably required would have knocked her out. Then someone would have come in to look at her and maybe even returen her to the OR during the night.

So what to do? Me personally, I would have tried my best to treat her pain and when the orders weren't enough, I would have called the doc. You say you're in a teaching facility. There's probably a resident always on campus to come and take a look see if the pain meds knocked her out or weren't doing what they should have been doing.

I hope that makes sense. My point about the pain is that giving the meds was NOT masking other stuff going on in this situation, actually it sounds like just the opposite was happening.

+ Add a Comment