Please help new grad - situation with pt (long)

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I am a new ADN grad, started working in a busy postpartum unit in in February of this year, I work nights.

I have always been the type of person to have a "sense" about things and when I ignore it, I am usually sorry later. Could be as benign as driving to at ATM, I get a "feeling" and the machine eats my card. Or as serious as just "knowing" this person is dangerous or is very ill.

For example, I was on my first week of orientation I disagreed with my preceptor on the care of a pt. She said the woman was just "whining", I felt the woman was not properly assessed or taken care of by either her or the MD which did a quick 60 second check. This lady had been restless, c/o pain, teary, slight fever in the 99's. Told me her first c-section scar got infected and she had to go "back to the hospital". Well, two days after she went home she was back in the hospital - septic from an infection. I felt something was wrong but didn't persist.

Sooooooo, you would have thought I would have learned from this situation but in practice I find myself intimidated by doctors and impressed by nurses who have much more experience than I. There is so much I don't know, experiences I haven't had yet. I look to our charge nurse and our mentor to help me. Well, Wednesday night I worked and when I came in the day shift RN immediately said this patient was having troubles and the doctor had been called. This day shift RN has at least 20 yrs experience but has recently returned to the floor after management for many years. She is also new to the postpartum unit.

I came in at 1900 Wednesday night. Day shift RN explained the patient had a lady partsl hysterectomy so no incision, lady partsl packing and a foley inserted. Patient was a 32 y/o and had been c/o pain and feeling of pressure in abdomen. Pt had a hx of IBS, 3 children. Foley was not draining much urine and there were white flecks in urine, which was cloudy. Pt had labs done prior to surgery (Wednesday am) which were WNL. Pt was receiving Clindamycin IVPB q8h. Day RN had pulled the Foley, pt stated she obtained relief from pressure, then RN reinserted, pt stated pressure returned. Foley was draining, but not much. About 30-50cc per hour which we know is adequate but didn't seem like enough given all the fluid this pt had received. Day RN stated this patient was receiving Dilaudid 0.5 mg IV q2h as ordered. At this point I had a bad feeling and called my charge RN to let her know I was going to need assist with this patient. She stated she was busy but would send mentor up to assist me.

I went in and did my assessment with day RN present. Pulses were fine everywhere, pt had pressure stockings on. All VSS were at baseline for pt before surgery, during surgery and all day - no changes. Lungs were clear all fields. Abdomen seemed soft but slightly distended, particularly bladder. Abdomen was slightly tender to touch but not overly so. We did a bladder scan to find 200cc inside (I also rechecked this later in the evening around 2200 with same results - approx 200cc). When I listened to abdomen I heard no bowel sounds at all during the 3-4 minutes I listened but I heard a strong pulse (heartbeat) in all quadrants which I had never heard before. I quietly mentioned this to the day RN and she stated, "I noticed that too". This worried me but I finished my assessment. Stat H&H was ordered over phone to be ready when MD arrived. Hgb was 9.1 down from 12.9 presurgery with an estimated blood loss of only 100cc in surgery! We put this on front of chart to discuss with MD. This worried me quite a bit..

While waiting for MD to arrive, day RN stated she would be there for another half hour so I decided to at least check in with my two other patients who had not been assessed or seen and it was 2000.. Again I voiced concerns about pulsing in abdomen to day RN. Day RN stated she didn't know what this meant. Pt was not emaciated or very thin, she was a normal weight - so what did this mean, I thought? Day RN had no anwers for me. Mentor arrived, went in to assess pt, I mentioned my concerns to her as well re: low H&H, pulsing in abdomen, low urine output, retained urine in bladder, flecks in urine, pressure in abdomen, unrelieved pain. She didn't see anything of note, advised me to wait for MD to arrive.

MD arrived around 2030 to assess pt when I was in doing another assessment of my other pts. Day RN still there so she was with him, she was transcribing the new orders when I went back to nurses' station so unfortunately I never got to talk to MD directly but upon reflection I felt it was more appropriate that day RN speak with him since I had only seen pt once for initial assessment and Day RN had been with pt all day. MD ordered 500cc bolus given over 2 hrs, then to continue 125cc/hr of D5LR, a k-pad (heating pad) to abdomen and repeat H&H in morning. I was not happy when I heard these orders, I had been hoping he would order some sort of scan to search for fluid in abdomen or repeat H&H sooner than the AM. I inquired to both day RN and mentor why this bolus would help and what about H&H, pulsing in abdomen and urine output/retention? Many reasons were given: sometimes you can hear pulsing in thin people, urine output met the minimum, etc. So...

I was still disturbed about this patient but she seemed stable. O2 sats and all vitals good and she seemed relatively comfortable so I went to finish assessments of other patients. Day RN left, mentor stayed with me most of evening on and off. At 2300 MD called to check on patient. I told him that her dose of dilaudid was giving some relief but not completely - and that she still c/o pain/pressure in abdomen. Told him I was concerned about her. He stated to "give it a chance" and medicate as ordered with heating pad. MD felt that the pain in abdomen was due to her IBS. "How could this be?" I thought to myself. "She has no bowel sounds and hasn't all day so how could the pain be due to bowel spasms?" But I didn't say this because again, I thought: do I know more than the MD?

So at this point, her VSS still stable and condition basically unchanged but still I felt uneasy. The mentor told me the Operations Supervisor was coming up in a few minutes. I said, "OH great, to assess pt?" She stated, "No, to bring heating pad." Still, I thought, maybe I'll ask her to take a look at the patient too, just to assess. She arrived, chatting busily on phone, dropped heating pad and wheeled around and left. I could have said something but thought, "Oh well I don't want to bother her"

At midnight after phone call with MD, spoke to charge RN in person this time telling her about foley not draining/retention, H&H low, pain meds not working well, pt uncomfortable, white flecks in urine, Mentioned that I was afraid our director would say I didn't advocate for pt, what could I do, should I do more? She stated MD had assessed pt so I was covered and in addition, mentor had assessed and been with patient several times.. I thought, "Maybe I'M covered but I want the PATIENT to be covered" but I didn't say anything.

Continued with evening, at one point pt stated she felt dizzy. Mentor was with me and we pPut o2 on, her sats were fine, she felt better. Not surprised she was dizzy as she hadn't eaten in nearly 48 hrs and was taking IV dilaudid. Checked for bowel sounds, still nothing but pulsing present, no changes in VS. At 0100 went to lunch but brought my food back to desk so I could keep an eye on her, kept her door open so I could even see in door while charting/eating, etc. The midnight dose of dilaudid/nubain seemed to help her rest and I was hoping she was on the mend.

At approximately 0200 I was dealing with another baby who had a bili of 12.1 coombs + at 44 hrs. I thought it could wait till morning, charge RN advised me to call MD at 0300, who was not pleased. When I gave my report at approx 0400 I again addressed my concerns with charge RN regarding my primary pt but she stated again, "Mentor assessed pt. What did she think?" So I basically shut up. Kept thinking what do I, a lowly new grad with four months' experience know? Do I know more than the MD who saw the lab results, assessed her belly and took a look at her and saw nothing? Better than the charge RN and mentor? So I just watched pt closely. Heating pad provided little relief so I kept bringing her warm baby blankets from warmer to hold to her stomach. This kept me coming in about q30 minutes to give her new ones so this was ok by me. I kept door to her room open through rest of night.

Between 0300 and 0500 pt seemed to be doing better and I got busy with all the charting I didn't do. Mentor recommended I medicate pt with higher dose of dilaudid to see if she obtained relief but I was afraid it would mask symptoms. She ended up having 4 doses of 0.5 mg Dilauded during my 12 hr shift and I felt that was a lot for someone young with a minor surgery. I didn't want her to be in horrible pain but I wanted to see if something suddenly got much worse. So I told mentor no, I was not going to increase the dose/frequency and gave her my reasoning.

6am, the lab did their draw, not a stat draw just timed. At 7:15 they called to say pt's hgb was 6.4. It had dropped from 9.1 to 6.4 in about 10 hrs overnight while she sat in bed. Day RN and I discussed who should call MD (this took about 60 seconds) - she said she should since she would be there when MD arrive. I said I should since I had been with pt the last 12 hrs. I immediately paged MD then, while waiting for a callback, notified charge RN of situation by phone. MD called back and I quickly told him concerns, lab results. He said, "Sounds like she is probably bleeding" I stated, "YES, I THINK SO. WILL YOU COME IN?" He stated he was coming "soon". "WHEN?" I stated. He assured me within the hour... then mentioned he "might" want to take her to the OR. He was ready to hang up when I said, "DR X - DO YOU WANT ME TO PREPARE HER FOR SURGERY??? Order tests?" He said, "Oh yes, type and cross for 2 units" so I immediately put in this order to the lab stat and called to make sure they were coming.

Well I went home late around 0815, lab had just come to type and cross and MD was on route and the same day RN was back on shift assisting pt. Pt was informed of possibility of surgery, consents were being signed. I called when I woke up later that day around 1330 to check, day RN stated pt went to OR and was bleeding internally and lost about 600cc of blood just sitting in her abdomen. They were not able to find active bleeding at that time. Our director of women's services had met with Day RN stating she didn't provide good care and stated she wanted to speak to me also. I was shaking but I called her back to get it over with and speak to her. She felt I had let the patient down and wanted to know precise sequence of events.

I have been thinking about nothing else since. When that woman's husband left that night, he told his wife, "You're in good hands" and went home to sleep, He and his wife (pt) trusted me to advocate for her and I basically just provided comfort care (companionship, medication and positioning/heating pad). All night this pt laid there bleeding with pain not completely relieved. I let her suffer needlessly and she could have bled out. I didn't advocate for her like I should of, I KNEW something was wrong and didn't call that doctor and insist he come back in or order more tests to help her. I feel so bad. I know exactly where I went wrong looking back, what I want to know is tips for being persistant and advocating for the pt without being afraid people will laugh or yell at me if I am wrong. My assessment skills were right on from the beginning, my intuition correct, my interventions good, just my follow through was bad.

Advice?

Melissa

Specializes in Telemetry, ICU, Resource Pool, Dialysis.

I also respectfully disagree with a previous poster who said the patient was better off going to the OR in the morning. I don't believe this patient was ever stable, and very likely to go down the tubes throughout the night. If clinical signs say a trip to the OR is needed sooner is better than later in my opinion. Unless you are replacing fluids/giving antibiotics/etc to make the patient stronger to survive the surgery.

I'm just curious - how do you define stable? I guess I have learned to step back and see the big picture in my practice. I still don't think a trip to the OR is a good thing during off hours unless absolutely necessary. Knowing the eventual outcome makes it a little easier to see the patient as unstable. She certainly had the potential to become unstable - but luckily for her she had a very concerned and bright nurse who would have caught it.

AAA crossed my mind, too. But the chances of that were slim. They don't just appear out of nowhere. Someone with this patient's history of bowel (IBS) and gyn problems would have had it diagnosed much earlier. Heart tones can be heard in the abdomen for a variety of reasons. Fluid in the peritoneum can amplify and refer normal heart tones.

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

Oh my goodness, how embarrassing. I missed an entire page of posting before I posted my reply.

:imbar

Some good posts there!

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

From http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/nalbuphine.htm

NUBAIN (nalbuphine hydrochloride) is a synthetic opioid agonist-antagonist analgesic.

The antagonistic part means it competes with the opioid (Dilaudid).

The same site also states:

"Receptor studies show that NUBAIN binds to mu, kappa, and delta receptors, but not to sigma receptors. NUBAIN is primarily a kappa agonist/partial mu antagonist analgesic."

The site also states it is not exactly clear which receptors dilaudid effect.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/nalbuphine_cp.htm Nubain

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/hydromorphone_cp.htm Dilaudid

Very interesting. We use these drug combined quite often. The pharmacists must know something else.

Specializes in ER.

Hell, I could be wrong. I have had morphine and Nubain ordered on the same patient and thought as you do- the pharmacist ok'ed it and the doc ordered it- it must be OK. But the patient didn't get any relief, and actually stated that she would start to feel better a couple hrs post morphine but then the relief would stop post Nubain. So since then I have been wary of the combination.

Just a thought- if you were on a postpartum floor- you can frequently hear an abdominal pulse on postpartum mothers, I always thought it was because of the huge blood supply to the uterus that hadn't reduced in size yet. Perhaps having that as a normal finding so frequently dulled the response to it as an abnormal finding?

I don't know. I had never noticed it before on the postpartum moms. This was very distinct. Thanks for the info.

Melissa

I am a new ADN grad, started working in a busy postpartum unit in in February of this year, I work nights.

You sound like a wonderful nurse. In my opinion, you were not negligent, but you are a new nurse. As such you can't operate from a position of power and knowledge that you don't have. There is nothing you can do about being inexperienced except gain experience, and now you have. You're going to keep getting better.

Your patient was stable, except for unrelieved pain. I also agree that your director is a jerk and I don't get what prompted a review of this patient as far as you are concerned?

The Director reviews all incidents in the unit immediately and visits pt personally as soon as possible. She talked to everyone involved in this incident, she seemed more angry at Day RN actually, but felt I could have done more, esp since I had a feeling something was wrong and picked up danger signs.

Regarding the medicating, her pain was eased but not completely relieved with the dilaudid. Even after medicating she still felt discomfort and was unable to sleep soundly and was restless. Yes, I could have upped the dose but I was afraid that masking symptoms would cause me to miss an important change in her condition. Maybe that wasn't right and I do feell bad for making her suffer needlessly.

Melissa

Our director is very conservative and very strict, a litle scary actually. She said that the pulsing in abd was a warning sign (I didn't know what it meant but I asked charge/mentor and day RN they said nothing), and that "pumping IV narcotics into someone all night without relieving their pain is a danger sign, a sign your body is trying to tell you something." She also said a 32 y/o woman with a surgery this minor should have been doing much better at this point and that I should listen to my instincts and if I didn't get the results I wanted I should move up the chain of command, even to page her at home if necessary!

Melissa

It's hard to be chewed out and be on the receiving end of heat, but unlike a lot of people here I don't think your director is wrong. (And I don't think you were wrong either; your director is validating what you instinctively knew.) I would listen to your director as giving words of wisdom rather than allowing yourself to feel defensive and intimidated.

Oh I am listening to her as words of wisdom. Do I understand that you are a student still, or recent new grad also? The dynamics between the charge/mentor/OS/doctors/floor nurses is hard to get the hang of and has many nuances and changes from shift to shift. You will see this when you start working and have a similar situation. Things are not as easily handled as they seem like they would be (does that make sense?) But yes, the director is right that I knew something was wrong and didn't advocate as strongly as I could have. She says this is worse than if I didn't see the signs at all.

Melissa

It's hard to be chewed out and be on the receiving end of heat, but unlike a lot of people here I don't think your director is wrong. (And I don't think you were wrong either; your director is validating what you instinctively knew.) I would listen to your director as giving words of wisdom rather than allowing yourself to feel defensive and intimidated.
Oh I am listening to her as words of wisdom. Do I understand that you are a student still, or recent new grad also? The dynamics between the charge/mentor/OS/doctors/floor nurses is hard to get the hang of and has many nuances and changes from shift to shift. You will see this when you start working and have a similar situation. Things are not as easily handled as they seem like they would be (does that make sense?) But yes, the director is right that I knew something was wrong and didn't advocate as strongly as I could have. She says this is worse than if I didn't see the signs at all.

Melissa

I am a new grad, but I'm also 40 years old and have worked my whole adult life, so I understand workplace dynamics. It sounds to me that your director is telling you to advocate for your patient even if it means leaving your comfort zone. She's absolutely right, and it seems from your description of the events that transpired that you know that that's what it takes to be a good nurse, even though you felt frustrated and thwarted by unhelpful colleagues and intimidating M.D.'s. I'm not looking forward to having to deal with that kind of thing, myself, though I know it's coming.

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

Regarding the medicating, her pain was eased but not completely relieved with the dilaudid. Even after medicating she still felt discomfort and was unable to sleep soundly and was restless. Yes, I could have upped the dose but I was afraid that masking symptoms would cause me to miss an important change in her condition. Maybe that wasn't right and I do feell bad for making her suffer needlessly.

Melissa

No, no, no, Melissa. My point wasn't to make you feel bad.

Let me try to better explain what I meant about the pain:

Look at what pain (stress), which is not normal and considered the fifth vital sign, does to the body's drive to maintain homeostasis- the autonomic nervous system kicks in and everything is on heightened alert (increased bp due to the release of adrenalin, for example). Unrelieved pain, eventually gets in the way of the immune system doing it's job and leads to the possibility of metabolic abnormalities like hyperglycemia (due to increased coritsol levels and the additional adrenaline floating around).

If a person is bleeding, what happens in the absence of pain? Their bp drops from lack of circulating volume and their hr increases to try to push around what little blood is left to carry oxygen and nutrients to cells (especially the brain).

If a person is having unrelieved pain AND bleeding what happens? The body's ans maintains blood pressure - it may even be higher than normal - due to the stress response kicking in to maintain that homeostasis. But this happens for only so long.

So if a person's pain is relieved AND they're bleeding the ans stress response is less likely to kick in and the blood pressure will reflect the real effects of blood loss - blood pressure drops - not necessarily because of the med given to relieve the pain, but because of lack of volume.

One of the tell-tale signs of bleeding or lack of volume, whether the patient is in pain or not, is the heart rate. It can be increased either way.

What gets me is when nurses see this increase in heart rate with a normal or high blood pressure but the patient is still c/o pain, and they give them something like a beta-blocker instead of more pain med! ARGH!!

So what I was saying is that by you giving more pain meds, you may have seen a more accurate picture of what was going on with your patient which would have backed up your guttural suspicions. NOT giving more pain meds was actually doing the masking of the s/s of bleeding because of the effects of the ans working hard to maintain homeostasis. Eventually what would have happened is the patient would have had such a blood loss that it effected mentation from lack of oxygen and then it would have been a down hill battle (code) from there.

The urine output may have been decreased due to the vasculature constricting to maintain blood pressure. You would think with a normal or higher blood pressure the u/o would be increased, but with less volume, there is less to filter (200 ml residual urine - which insn't that much in this situation - was probably due to the pressure on the bladder or the tubes from the bleeding).

It's also a very valid point to think that giving more pain meds would compromise your patient's respiratory status. BUT, if it takes that much to relieve the pain, then that needs to be addressed - not wait until the morning - and something else needs to be done or the source of the pain needs to be investigated (now). I think it's dangerous to think that with surgery, patients should expect pain. Sure, but pain can be controlled, it's not being able to get the pain under control that should send up red flags.

But all this comes with experience and having seen this sequence over and over. When the one nurse recommended that you give more for pain, I think s/he was right, but it's a very delicate balance.

I don't think you did anything wrong. You did an excellent job in making sure your patient made it through the night. This was an excellent case for you to learn from!

Keep up the good work!!

:)

Oh, thank you for taking the time to explain that to me. I understand what you are saying. I was mystified by the VS being stable. The highest her pulse ever got was 81 and this was just the latest one I took at 0600 (iit was usually between 60-70) BP ranged between 120s/70s to 100s/60s without much variation over the last two days (pre, during and post surgery) You did a good job of explaining that to me, thank you.

That was my thoughts about the bladder not emptying and the slow urine output and feeling of pressure - that something was pressing on the bladder or compressing it somehow. This seemed to go with the pulsations I heard in abdomen. I didn't know what this signified but just thinking logically I thought of either fluid conducting the heart tones or a pocket of something (mass, pocket of fluid) compressing an artery or even a vein/artery leaking. The only one I mentioned this hypothesis to was the day RN but I wish I would have gone over this theory with the MD and charge RN too. I did list some/most of the symptoms for them and say I was worried but I didn't try to hypothesize in my conversations with them.

Melissa

No, no, no, Melissa. My point wasn't to make you feel bad.

Let me try to better explain what I meant about the pain:

Look at what pain (stress), which is not normal and considered the fifth vital sign, does to the body's drive to maintain homeostasis- the autonomic nervous system kicks in and everything is on heightened alert (increased bp due to the release of adrenalin, for example). Unrelieved pain, eventually gets in the way of the immune system doing it's job and leads to the possibility of metabolic abnormalities like hyperglycemia (due to increased coritsol levels and the additional adrenaline floating around).

If a person is bleeding, what happens in the absence of pain? Their bp drops from lack of circulating volume and their hr increases to try to push around what little blood is left to carry oxygen and nutrients to cells (especially the brain).

If a person is having unrelieved pain AND bleeding what happens? The body's ans maintains blood pressure - it may even be higher than normal - due to the stress response kicking in to maintain that homeostasis. But this happens for only so long.

So if a person's pain is relieved AND they're bleeding the ans stress response is less likely to kick in and the blood pressure will reflect the real effects of blood loss - blood pressure drops - not necessarily because of the med given to relieve the pain, but because of lack of volume.

One of the tell-tale signs of bleeding or lack of volume, whether the patient is in pain or not, is the heart rate. It can be increased either way.

What gets me is when nurses see this increase in heart rate with a normal or high blood pressure but the patient is still c/o pain, and they give them something like a beta-blocker instead of more pain med! ARGH!!

So what I was saying is that by you giving more pain meds, you may have seen a more accurate picture of what was going on with your patient which would have backed up your guttural suspicions. NOT giving more pain meds was actually doing the masking of the s/s of bleeding because of the effects of the ans working hard to maintain homeostasis. Eventually what would have happened is the patient would have had such a blood loss that it effected mentation from lack of oxygen and then it would have been a down hill battle (code) from there.

The urine output may have been decreased due to the vasculature constricting to maintain blood pressure. You would think with a normal or higher blood pressure the u/o would be increased, but with less volume, there is less to filter (200 ml residual was probably due to the pressure on the bladder or the tubes from the bleeding).

It's also a very valid point to think that giving more pain meds would compromise your patient's respiratory status. BUT, if it takes that much to relieve the pain, then that needs to be addressed - not wait until the morning - and something else needs to be done or the source of the pain needs to be investigated (now). I think it's dangerous to think that with surgery, patients should expect pain. Sure, but pain can be controlled, it's not being able to get the pain under control that should send up red flags.

But all this comes with experience and having seen this sequence over and over. When the one nurse recommended that you give more for pain, I think s/he was right.

I don't think you did anything wrong. You did an excellent job in making sure your patient made it through the night. This was an excellent case for you to learn from!

Keep up the good work!!

:)

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