Plant-based (vegan) mandate for NY hospitals

[Emergent]

What do you think of the new bill passed in New York State requiring vegan options on the menu?

It does appear to be a political endorsement of this diet over others, such as paleo, which had benefited many as well. While I definitely favor choice for patients, this law is promoting a plant-based as superior.

Also, whenever government imposes another mandate, it creates an expensive bureaucracy and burdensome red tape.

New York's landmark bill guarantees healthful plant-based meals to hospital patients

[HelpfulNatureHopeful]

I think using drugs is stupid, and I don’t understand why someone would choose that lifestyle, but if that’s what they enjoy, I don’t hold it against them. Many people waste just as much time, money and health on other things. Alcohol, gambling, religion, etc. I would still help them. I just haven’t met many homeless people.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

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The point is not how easy it is to supplement. The point is that if humans were designed to be exclusively vegan, they wouldn't need to supplement.

B12 is made by bacteria and it's really our sterile modern times that have created the need for supplementation. In the old days it's thought that B12 came mostly from unwashed vegetarian food because germs and sanitation weren't discovered.

It's the only supplement vegans need to get.

My point and one perhaps we all can agree on is that if one is so ethically drawn to veganism then I see nothing wrong with the mandate that hospitals provide such a diet. They provide Hindi people with vegetarian food, Jewish people with Kosher food, why not vegans?

My hospital already does it and I would venture a guess without a law most hospitals will provide vegan options.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

5 hours ago, juniper222 said:

There is nothing wrong with the vegan diet, as long as you get supplementary nutrition to prevent deficiencies. There is also nothing wrong with eating meat, it's part of what we are as a species. I have absolutely no negative thoughts against a person for their choices if they choose to be either. I think going vegan to loose weight ,even if temporary, could help a lot of people out, and help with food shortages. Once again, the best diet is a balanced one.

I just was reading a report about the healthiest diets which included criteria of people sticking to them, including health benefits. The Mediterranean diet ranked #1. The "flexitarian diet" (mostly vegetarian food, rare meat) ranks quite high as well (I think #2 or #3). These are vegetable centric diets.

Meat focused diets like Keto ranked as the worse. The vegan diet ranked a bit low as well but higher than Keto because it's not one they feel that people would find easy to stick to for the long term.

With cardiac disease being our #1 killer, I'm not quite so sure "it's part of what we are as a species" rings true with me, but I totally get what you're saying. What's also part of us as a species is eating a wide variety of plants because meat was a rare treat and perhaps it still should be. I've read that 90% of Americans don't eat enough fruits and vegetables. It's funny that they are the experts in telling vegans about nutritional deficiencies with all the chronic diseases of hypertension, diabetes, etc. killing them.

But I digress and no need to debate diet here in this thread. I did start a thread in 2008 though....LOL

https://allnurses-breakroom.com/the-vegetarian-thread-t58510/

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

6 hours ago, HelpfulNatureHopeful said:

Yes but b12 is easy to come by. I take b12, d3, and a multivitamin.

Do you even know where B12 comes from?

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

2 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

Do you even know where B12 comes from?

https://www.forksoverknives.com/vitamin-b12-questions-answered-2/#gs.ry85nn

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

21 minutes ago, Tweety said:

B12 is made by bacteria and it's really our sterile modern times that have created the need for supplementation. In the old days it's thought that B12 came mostly from unwashed vegetarian food because germs and sanitation weren't discovered.

B12 only occurs natural from animal sources so if you are taking it you are not a vegan.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

10 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

B12 only occurs natural from animal sources so if you are taking it you are not a vegan.

Vegan supplements are synthetically made by micro-organisms, so if you do want to get technical those organisms aren't technically a plant. But they are not in the animal kingdom either.

Vegans eat bacteria, in yogurt, fermented foods, etc. and still consider it vegan food as long as it's cultured in a vegan way.

I have studied vegan nutrition about 25 years and while I don't know everything there is to know, I'm quite knowledgeable and up to date and you can't trump me.

That said, I'm really flexitarian and not a vegan anyway. I do go many weeks and days without animal products sometimes. Last time I had animal products was Christmas.

Again, I will say I won't digress and get into a real big debate about it all.

[HelpfulNatureHopeful]

Lol you can get vegan b12....

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

27 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Vegan supplements are synthetically made by micro-organisms, so if you do want to get technical those organisms aren't technically a plant. But they are not in the animal kingdom either.

Vegans eat bacteria, in yogurt, fermented foods, etc. and still consider it vegan food as long as it's cultured in a vegan way.

I have studied vegan nutrition about 25 years and while I don't know everything there is to know, I'm quite knowledgeable and up to date and you can't trump me.

That said, I'm really flexitarian and not a vegan anyway. I do go many weeks and days without animal products sometimes. Last time I had animal products was Christmas.

Again, I will say I won't digress and get into a real big debate about it all.

I am always interested in learning new things and a good spirited debate often leads me to consider things I had not thought of before. I bounce around the nutrition map but was raised on a subsistence farm and have been consuming animals and plants my whole life - My physician won't let me eat refined carbohydrates as I have insulin resistance and my body can't process them. So I am always looking for good filling carbs - I was into sun chokes for a while - but they do produce a foul wind so I have to go gently for the sake of my co-workers.

?

35 minutes ago, HelpfulNatureHopeful said:

Lol you can get vegan b12....

You just taught me something I didn't know as I have always heard that B12 was made in the gut of ruminant animals!

[HelpfulNatureHopeful]

Uhmmm we have like LABs these days... and they can make it. From bacteria.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

8 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

I am always interested in learning new things and a good spirited debate often leads me to consider things I had not thought of before. I bounce around the nutrition map but was raised on a subsistence farm and have been consuming animals and plants my whole life - My physician won't let me eat refined carbohydrates as I have insulin resistance and my body can't process them. So I am always looking for good filling carbs - I was into sun chokes for a while - but they do produce a foul wind so I have to go gently for the sake of my co-workers.

?

You just taught me something I didn't know as I have always heard that B12 was made in the gut of ruminant animals!

There's some interesting studies out that insulin resistance is heightened by animal fats, or at least doesn't improve, but getting rid of animal fats and refined carbs actually help people get off medication.

I too enjoy learning and sometimes even changing my world when when I need to based on what I learn.

[jobellestarr]

On 12/22/2019 at 10:12 AM, LibraSunCNM said:

This is the oddest hill to die on.

I love this! I’m keeping it.