do physical therapists make more money than RNs?

Published

I was just curious...thanks!

Specializes in L&D.
I still don't get why requiring someone to get their BSN within five years of graduation using a collection of specially(sp?) designed CEU-like classes is a bad thing.

Why not say any Bachelor's degree is acceptable? I could see how an RN working in psych might prefer a degree in psychology or a nurse working in infect. dis. might want a degree in Microbiology.

Even BSN, MSN and Phd's grads should want to continue learning.

Why are we waiting for hospital/employers to insitute a pay differential before work on our many issues?

I'm a money hungry cheapskate and even I know you gotta do some things not for the dollars but just becasue they need to be done! :lol2:

This is such a lost cause. People without the BSN will bash us and call us arrogant about anything and everything we say. I am not an arrogant person and I don't appreciate being labeled as one. I do not have RN,BSN on my name badge...but yes, I am very proud of my education. I worked very hard for my degree and didn't get it until I was 31 years old. I am not going to feel bad about having a higher education and will never change my mind that continuing ed is important.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
This is such a lost cause. People without the BSN will bash us and call us arrogant about anything and everything we say. I am not an arrogant person and I don't appreciate being labeled as one. I do not have RN,BSN on my name badge...but yes, I am very proud of my education. I worked very hard for my degree and didn't get it until I was 31 years old. I am not going to feel bad about having a higher education and will never change my mind that continuing ed is important.

I'm glad that you are proud of your education. As I am of mine. As it should be.

I do agree about one thing: it IS a lost cause.

That being the case, why continue to split the profession by advocating for a lost cause?

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in Ortho/Neuro.
I think if nurses want to be valued for their higher education then they need to take harder classes in the sciences instead of survey classes or science for allied health.

Ok, here are the science classes I took...

1. Introduction to Biology

2. Anatomy and Physiology I

3. Anatomy and Physiology II

4. Microbiology

5. General Chemistry I

6. Organic & Biochemistry I

7. Pharmacology

8. Will be taking Pathophysiology in the fall to finish my BSN

I don't see any "Survey" or "Sciences for Allied Health" in there.

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Specializes in L&D.

I do agree about one thing: it IS a lost cause.

That being the case, why continue to split the profession by advocating for a lost cause?

~faith,

Timothy.

WHAT??! No, the lost cause is not to split the profession. That is a very subjective statement. I will ALWAYS advocate for continuing education. I was brought up to value education and am bringing my children up the same way. Sorry you don't feel the same way. And with that I will ignore your further posts as I don't need you to tell me I earned a BSN to "split the profession". Absolutely rediculous. :trout:

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Specializes in Critical Care.
WHAT??! No, the lost cause is not to split the profession. That is a very subjective statement. I will ALWAYS advocate for continuing education. I was brought up to value education and am bringing my children up the same way. Sorry you don't feel the same way. And with that I will ignore your further posts as I don't need you to tell me I earned a BSN to "split the profession". Absolutely rediculous. :trout:

I didn't SAY that you split the profession by earning a BSN.

I said you split the profession by advocating for BSN-entry, especially since you state that you know it's a 'lost cause'.

If it's a lost cause, as you say, and it is, then why are we creating hard feelings and causing disunity over a lost cause? Our case is better served by causes that aren't 'lost', like unity. But tearing each other up over 'lost' causes just keeps us down.

IN fact, I will say that I think professional unity IS a lost cause. But, only because we bind ourselves by other lost causes.

And btw, I'm a huge advocate for continuing education. THAT's why I have a bach degree.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Nationwide PT's make about $8K more, on average, than RN's.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b29-0000

However, it also varies by region. In California, for example, PT's and RN's make about the same at a little more $70K a year.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm#b29-0000

:typing

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Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.

Several posters in this thread have mentioned the fact that nurses are treated as a line-item expense in a hospital budget, rather than as billable professionals like MD's and PT's. I have a few observations on this topic. It's a wee bit long, and I apologize for the length. ;)

As a nurse (working as an educator in sub-acute/rehab) and as a patient after spinal surgery, I've spent a lot of time around physical therapists. I've seen great ones, I've seen crappy ones- they ran the spectrum, just like in nursing, medicine, waiting tables, installing cable....being stellar (or crappy) at one's job certainly isn't specific to the healthcare field, right? Just like nurses, great physical therapists can have a tremendous impact on a patient's health- and bad ones can be just as harmful as substandard nurses.

The main difference I saw- both as a colleague, and as a patient- was that PT's *were* largely regarded as highly-valued, independent practitioners. Patients at the sub-acute facility talked about 'their' physical therapist in the same way they referred to 'their' doctor- someone who was directing their medical care, and personally invested in their progress. Nurses were generally referred to as 'the' nurse...largely interchangeable, and simply carrying out orders. Regardless of how involved or invested the nurses were in the patients' care, the overall perception was that nurses were task-doers.

As a patient, I've had multiple PT's for various issues, and I was treated after my last surgery by an experienced PT and his student (doctoral program). They were so wonderful- and I'm including the student in this statement- that I would reschedule my appointments if they weren't available. Shoot, if they'd left the hospital, I probably would've followed them! Meanwhile, most of the nurses I encountered (both as an inpatient and in the clinic) seemed only marginally invested in my care. I used to work at this hospital, and I can see how they got that way- nurses are mostly treated as cogs in a wheel there.

My last job was in a clinical research facility. I worked nights, and typically, I was the only nurse in the building. EVERYONE- study coordinators, doctors, phlebotomists, and subjects- treated me with respect. My input was valued, and management treated me like an independent practitioner (which, technically, I was- all the RN's were contractors at this facility).

Even though the environments were completely different, there were obvious parallels between the perception of PT's in the hospital setting, and that of RN's in the research setting. Feeling valued had a profound impact on how I felt about my job, and about the nursing profession as a whole.

I'm not going to chime in on the education debate (I've done that plenty already), but I do think there's a vicious cycle in hospital nursing: nurses are treated as minimally skilled task-doers, so we feel undervalued; we channel this frustration into infighting and pettiness, instead of looking for ways to create a more professional image for ourselves. While we're busy fighting amongst ourselves over what our badges say, and promoting images of nurses as sweet, gentle angels of mercy- instead of as highly skilled, independent practitioners- the powers-that-be are continuing to look on us as low-skilled laborers.

Is there a single solution to this problem? I don't think so. I *do* think we all agree that the image of nursing needs a major overhaul. I had a classmate (who was also a PharmD) who thought the term 'nurse' was inherently demeaning. In a way, I agree with her. But no matter what we choose to call ourselves- or how we choose to educate ourselves- we have to get beyond the finger-pointing and the name-calling, and work together to fix the problem.

rachel (RN, etc........)

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Several posters in this thread have mentioned the fact that nurses are treated as a line-item expense in a hospital budget, rather than as billable professionals like MD's and PT's. I have a few observations on this topic. It's a wee bit long, and I apologize for the length. ;)

As a nurse (working as an educator in sub-acute/rehab) and as a patient after spinal surgery, I've spent a lot of time around physical therapists. I've seen great ones, I've seen crappy ones- they ran the spectrum, just like in nursing, medicine, waiting tables, installing cable....being stellar (or crappy) at one's job certainly isn't specific to the healthcare field, right? Just like nurses, great physical therapists can have a tremendous impact on a patient's health- and bad ones can be just as harmful as substandard nurses.

The main difference I saw- both as a colleague, and as a patient- was that PT's *were* largely regarded as highly-valued, independent practitioners. Patients at the sub-acute facility talked about 'their' physical therapist in the same way they referred to 'their' doctor- someone who was directing their medical care, and personally invested in their progress. Nurses were generally referred to as 'the' nurse...largely interchangeable, and simply carrying out orders. Regardless of how involved or invested the nurses were in the patients' care, the overall perception was that nurses were task-doers.

As a patient, I've had multiple PT's for various issues, and I was treated after my last surgery by an experienced PT and his student (doctoral program). They were so wonderful- and I'm including the student in this statement- that I would reschedule my appointments if they weren't available. Shoot, if they'd left the hospital, I probably would've followed them! Meanwhile, most of the nurses I encountered (both as an inpatient and in the clinic) seemed only marginally invested in my care. I used to work at this hospital, and I can see how they got that way- nurses are mostly treated as cogs in a wheel there.

My last job was in a clinical research facility. I worked nights, and typically, I was the only nurse in the building. EVERYONE- study coordinators, doctors, phlebotomists, and subjects- treated me with respect. My input was valued, and management treated me like an independent practitioner (which, technically, I was- all the RN's were contractors at this facility).

Even though the environments were completely different, there were obvious parallels between the perception of PT's in the hospital setting, and that of RN's in the research setting. Feeling valued had a profound impact on how I felt about my job, and about the nursing profession as a whole.

I'm not going to chime in on the education debate (I've done that plenty already), but I do think there's a vicious cycle in hospital nursing: nurses are treated as minimally skilled task-doers, so we feel undervalued; we channel this frustration into infighting and pettiness, instead of looking for ways to create a more professional image for ourselves. While we're busy fighting amongst ourselves over what our badges say, and promoting images of nurses as sweet, gentle angels of mercy- instead of as highly skilled, independent practitioners- the powers-that-be are continuing to look on us as low-skilled laborers.

Is there a single solution to this problem? I don't think so. I *do* think we all agree that the image of nursing needs a major overhaul. I had a classmate (who was also a PharmD) who thought the term 'nurse' was inherently demeaning. In a way, I agree with her. But no matter what we choose to call ourselves- or how we choose to educate ourselves- we have to get beyond the finger-pointing and the name-calling, and work together to fix the problem.

rachel (RN, etc........)

So true - and sage.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
I'm glad there's another nurse here that is not afraid of standing up for what she/he believes in. The diploma/adn prepared rns will bash us until no end (well, until this thread is closed), but it won't change MY mind of how important higher education is.

You are misinterpreting the message of educational unity. This post is not about adn vs. bsn. but about another profession which requires much more schooling having the power to limit the number of members and therefore control their salaries. Advocating for a bsn. is about having the authority to regulate our own profession and improve our working conditions - not necessarily about the quality of care. Please read these posts without being so defensive. No one put down ADN's. Thanks.

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Perioperative.

What kind of tech was that? Never heard of it. Heard of EEG techs but not what you said. That sure is a long title!

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Specializes in L&D.
No one put down ADN's. Thanks.
Exactly. Only BSNs have been put down.
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Specializes in None...YET!.
Nationwide PT's make about $8K more, on average, than RN's.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b29-0000

However, it also varies by region. In California, for example, PT's and RN's make about the same at a little more $70K a year.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm#b29-0000

:typing

These sites have very reliable info. Thanks for posting!

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