Paying for school

Here is my .02. I am a former business owner with a strong financial history.

Before assuming more debt you need to get your finances under control. Your spending habits and behaviors are not good (i.e. your statement: We already have a mortgage, a 2nd, some expensive "toys," our older children's school debt and still have two more kids coming up. There will be no college money for them!)

Pay off your debts and shred any credit cards you have. If you cannot afford it then you cannot have it.

p.s.

feel free to PM me if you need any personal financial advise, suggestions, etc.

I must agree. Living hand to mouth = no retirement worth living.

I'm 29 and already have an IRA, and although I do have a mortgage, I have zero toys other than my Z3, which is paid off, and no credit card debt. Thank God for dad's financial teachings growing up.

Just get your ADN on the cheap. Save 10% of your income.

Save 10% of your income.

If you mean for retirement, I'd say between 15-18% but otherwise great advice.

Your spending habits and behaviors are not good (i.e. your statement: We already have a mortgage, a 2nd, some expensive "toys," our older children's school debt and still have two more kids coming up. There will be no college money for them!)

Pay off your debts and shred any credit cards you have. If you cannot afford it then you cannot have it.

I felt a little judged by your response, but I trust you meant well. You got me on the toys, but since when is a mortgage such a bad thing? First off, we have no credit card debt. Our vehicles are all paid for. We only owe just over 10% of our home's value on our mortgage. Though decidedly, it was our choice to take out the second on our house, we did so to be able to utilize advanced assisted reproductive technologies and do 3 cycles of in vitro fertilization to get our little boy. It was the best $50,000 I have ever spent and I would have spent 100 time more for him! Worth every cent! Same with our and our children's educations. (Nobody paid for us but us!) Granted it would have been much better to have a gigantic 529 nest egg college plan for our kids, but we were busy putting a roof over their heads. I guess the rules of either paying cash or don't buy would have put us out of the house, health care, education and even some of our kids.

The toys aren't needed to survive, for sure, that is why they are considered toys! But they are paid for, yet require constant investment and upkeep. Ours have a resale value and offer a lifestyle, quality of life and family center for us. I am not talking about big screen TVs. We don't have a bunch of gadgetry, or the latest and the greatest, no designer clothes, it isn't about the Jones' here. Its about our lives and what joy and meaning we find together, in part through our family toys and activities. Lastly (though I am unsure why I feel I have to defend my financial responsibility, or perceived lack of it) in our 25 years as a family we have had to deal with severe illness, injuries, lay offs, hard time, great times, our daughter's recent wedding, and just a few really nice vacations - all of which we were able to pay for in cash at the time. Though hard times can suck down anyone's savings, and in a hurry!

My concern is about not being able to pay out what we already pay out, AND pay for tuition, books, childcare, gas, etc AND me not able to contribute financially to our household for a matter of years when the economy is already so uncertain. Compounding this, I am not going to be in the job market for 20-30 more years - which would make financing education more practical. I was just hoping to find some ideas about financing adult education and help in determining whether any financial benefits existed in obtaining a BSN over an ADN that made it worth financing an education and 3 more years in school vs waiting for a community college which I can pay for out of pocket. I did find a "sticky" that had lots of great leads.

My concern is about not being able to pay out what we already pay out, AND pay for tuition, books, childcare, gas, etc AND me not able to contribute financially to our household for a matter of years when the economy is already so uncertain.

1) why can't you contribute to the household income whilst in school?

2) the economy is not that uncertain. the housing market will stabilize soon (generall goes in 5 year cycles) and I have not seen a real downturn in any of my investments. On the long term you can predict the market will provide a return of 12%. Some years 15, some 9. Also, nursing is a recession proof field. Salaries might fluctuate a bit, but demand will always be acute.

3) i am not a fan of financing an education.

I felt a little judged by your response, but I trust you meant well. You got me on the toys, but since when is a mortgage such a bad thing? First off, we have no credit card debt. Our vehicles are all paid for. We only owe just over 10% of our home's value on our mortgage. Though decidedly, it was our choice to take out the second on our house, we did so to be able to utilize advanced assisted reproductive technologies and do 3 cycles of in vitro fertilization to get our little boy. It was the best $50,000 I have ever spent and I would have spent 100 time more for him! Worth every cent! Same with our and our children's educations. (Nobody paid for us but us!) Granted it would have been much better to have a gigantic 529 nest egg college plan for our kids, but we were busy putting a roof over their heads. I guess the rules of either paying cash or don't buy would have put us out of the house, health care, education and even some of our kids.

The toys aren't needed to survive, for sure, that is why they are considered toys! But they are paid for, yet require constant investment and upkeep. Ours have a resale value and offer a lifestyle, quality of life and family center for us. I am not talking about big screen TVs. We don't have a bunch of gadgetry, or the latest and the greatest, no designer clothes, it isn't about the Jones' here. Its about our lives and what joy and meaning we find together, in part through our family toys and activities. Lastly (though I am unsure why I feel I have to defend my financial responsibility, or perceived lack of it) in our 25 years as a family we have had to deal with severe illness, injuries, lay offs, hard time, great times, our daughter's recent wedding, and just a few really nice vacations - all of which we were able to pay for in cash at the time. Though hard times can suck down anyone's savings, and in a hurry!

My concern is about not being able to pay out what we already pay out, AND pay for tuition, books, childcare, gas, etc AND me not able to contribute financially to our household for a matter of years when the economy is already so uncertain. Compounding this, I am not going to be in the job market for 20-30 more years - which would make financing education more practical. I was just hoping to find some ideas about financing adult education and help in determining whether any financial benefits existed in obtaining a BSN over an ADN that made it worth financing an education and 3 more years in school vs waiting for a community college which I can pay for out of pocket. I did find a "sticky" that had lots of great leads. [/quote

ddfdfde

I understand where you are coming from. I so want to go to nursing school, but I am afraid I can never afford it. I can do my pre-reqs and get put on a wait list for 2-3 years, at least. It would probably be 6 years until I actually finish school, which doesn't seem worth the wait for just an associates (I could get an Masters in the same amount of time). Or I could go to a private school with little or now pre-reqs and no waiting list. But we can't afford that outright, and I would have to quit my job because the hours don't work with nursing school hours. Maybe I could get something else, but probably for less money and less hours, and it would might have to be nights. I don't want to take out too many loans, don't even think I would qualify for personal loans because of our credit scores. We are getting that in order though (before anyone says anything). We just payed off the majority of our debt with our tax returns. One car is paid off and the other one will be in a year. We don't have a morgage, but we do have little kids and live paycheck to paycheck. I just picked up more hours at work and don't see how we can afford school and live without my paycheck. But if I don't go back to school and get a better job, in the long run we will suffer more.

Hey do we know each other???? I have some of the same concerns as you do!!! I am only going to attend an ADN program and still wondering how we will be able to afford me to NOT work while I am in NS. At this point I am planning for the future expenses. I save regularly from my paycheck (I'm planning to attend full-time in Fall 09) so things like my next raise will go right into my "school fund", when I can save a day on daycare for my kids, that money goes right into the "daycare savings" fund and anything that I happen along like birthday or Christmas money from my parents goes into the bank as well. I am also using my job to pay for the class that I am taking now and the next 2 classes even though they won't pay for all of it, something is better than nothing. Next April, I will begin applying for scholarships to help with any costs, I know the competition for scholarships is tough but it is worth a try.

I, like you, at this point do not qualify for financial aid either although I will apply when the time comes anyway, it is worth a try anyway (besides, most schools make you complete that paperwork if you want to take out a student loan). DH and I are also saving our tax return money for emergencies/next house so if I truly need that money I would use that as well but that is only after all other sources are exhausted. And finally there are students loans which I will most likely have no choice but to take.

Find little ways to cut your expenses now so when you have to attend NS you will already have lowered your expenses a little. In the last couple of months I have dropped my grocery bill 15% and it is getting lower as I am learning to shop smarter, hopefully I'll be spend about half of what I used to by the end of the summer, that will save us some money right there. I have also started watching my spending on silly things like lunch out with co-workers and stopping for a coffee in the morning. Little things like that can add up. I had to actually write down what I spend money on and then re-train myself from there. Told myself that if I took a lunch on Monday and Tuesday then I could buy a lunch on Wednesday and some times, Wednesday is here and I'm grabbing something from home for lunch anyway. The trick really is to figure out where you spend and cut out a little here and there from that expense, it really does add up fast. Sorry for the "lecture" but I am somewhat passionate about saving for NS, the more money I can save now, the less stress I'll have during school.

Hotflashn, I am going to be utilizing student loans. I have a small 401K that everyone says not to touch. I am waitlisted on an ADN program and have a BA. I decided to take the accelerated BSN route since it is one year. I am probably going to come out of debt 80K or so, but I do plan on going on for a Master's in Nursing. I, too, have mortgage, car payments and two small children in private school and live in the SF Bay(expensive area). ADN versus BSN in short is all preference. For me, BSN will allow me to go on into management and also get a Master's. Time is also why i decided to do the ABSN program. In the bay area, some CC's have two year wait lists. 2 years wait list plus 2 years in the program. 4 years is just too long for me. The faster I'm a nurse and start working, the faster I can start working in a career where I can basically go a lot further than where I am now.

Rianna, I am in the SF BA, as well. I think a lot people who live elsewhere just don't understand how expensive it is to live here (unless they live in LA, NYC, etc) or don't get how volatile the various markets are. In the last 3 years the value of my house has dropped nearly $200,000 (which is similar to what some people pay for their entire house in some areas of the country!) or that we have to pay more for just about every utility, or that we have to pay practically a $1 a gallon more for gas, or that in the BA you can't leave your house without paying at least $4 bridge toll - sometimes you have to cross 2 bridges! Two of my older kids have had to leave the BA because they can't afford to comfortably live here. My daughter's apt here was a 1 bdrm shanty compared to her plush 2 bdrm, 2 bath, fireplaced and fitness center, golf course view place in NV, which is practically half of what she payed for her "dump" here. Plus they have enough left over at the end of the month to save for a house. Though, it will not be in the BA. Of course, there are trade offs, in that she isn't in CA and missing family and friends.

I think it is a good idea not to touch your retirement. Leave that alone. I would perfer not to take on education debt, but to me, if it is necessary, it is a good debt, an INVESTMENT - like a house, and for what it is worth Suze Orman says so, too! To each their own. I wasn't looking for credit counseling or lectures on how to spend my money from people who know nothing about me, I just wanted to hear about options.

Good luck!

You might want to look at your assumptions concerning the use of a 401K...

There is a clause that allows you to use 401k monies for training for a *new* career without penalties. I am not a tax lawyer... verify this on your own!!! :)

1) How long will it take you to pay back the interest on all the school loans vs. earn the monies that you would use to go to school?

2) What do you think the return on your 4.01k investments will be vs. the inflation rate (especially in today's markets!)?

I'm going to use my 401K and not pick up any more debt if I can possibly help it.

Mark