pay

Nightcrawler, BSN, RN · Aug 24, 2008

Actually plumbers in my state do have education/work requirements as well as a board exam to pass for their license:
For work experience in state you need four years of Board-approved work experience under a licensed master plumbing, including at least 7,500 hours under the supervision of a licensed master plumber.
You can apply up to 1,500 hours of Board-approved education to the 7,500-hour requirement. You must also list any hours you've worked as an apprentice plumber. Any hours you work as an unlicensed apprentice plumber will be subtracted from your hours worked as an apprentice plumber. An unlicensed apprentice plumber must register with the Board before applying for the journey plumber exam. (http://www.contractors-license.org)
In truth few plumbers are paid $65 an hour unless they either master plumbers or do HVAC work also which has other experience/educational requirements. They have to drive and maintain their vehicle/tools to the job, carry expensive insurance etc. but none of this is really the point. The truth is that it is about market value and for anyone that thinks plumbers have it so easy please feel free to become one.
Bottom line is I prefer not to make judgement calls about which contributing member of society is more valuable than the other and the truth is its all about market value anyway. Plus as a new grad with my ADN I'm making over $50 an hour when I do weekend work so no complaints from me. :)

Regardless- you are still saying that you feel that the work that your plumber does is rightly worth more in our society than the work that you do.

Not to put too fine a point on things- but the requirements for licensure as a plumber that YOU posted stated that an apprenticeship is required. Last I heard, an apprenticeship was on the job training. The education that they talked about was voluntary, and only served to substitute for some of the hours of the job training. Yes they have to maintain the tools of their trade and carry insurance- but last I checked I was responsible for my Liability Insurance, uniforms, stethoscope, continuing education, certifications etc, etc, etc.

What I do agree with is that salary has a large deal to do with market value. Nursing wages, which are not billed separately as are PT, OT, Speech, RT or other professional therapies, are included in the bill for the hospital room. Our services are grouped with the cost for housekeeping, nutrition, and other basic supplies. As such we do not have the ability to raise our prices to meet market forces. As a matter of fact, there is pressure from the community because of the high cost of healthcare. This may be why yearly increases for nurses rarely meet cost of living increases, and that professional nurses top out the wage scale so quickly even in the face of critical shortages across the country. With nurses so in need, would you not think that wages would be increasing exponentially?

It all comes down to public perception, but also in the ability of professionals to set prices in a competitive market. As you have stated, there is really very little comparison between plumbing and nursing- I think the comparison was started as a more realistic comparison than the ones that were being bandied about professional athletes. If nurses were in the private market, and were able to market their individual services and specialties for people to choose who would be providing their care- then I think that wages would be much higher. If you were shopping for nurses to care for you after your heart surgery, would you bargain shop, or look with someone with the experience, certification and ability to assess and problem sove possible complications? How much would you be willing to care for that expertise?

MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN · Aug 26, 2008

I don't see where one profession has any bearing on the other but in any event your comment about plumbers just snaking a toilet is similar to people that think nurses only prance around in short skirts, white stockings and just push aspirin. I never insinuated that an ADN nurse isn't worth every penny they make, just as my plumber is worth every penny I pay him. What does one have to do with the other?

You brought up the plumber...:wink2:...and then mentioned ADNs make a good living....compared to what?

Honestly, I had a retired physician as a patient last week that I would have liked to kick out of the ER along with our ER doc, the specialist and everyone else who came in contact with him....as a healthcare professional I put up with his crap with a smile....at least if I was a plumber at his house....I could walk out the door and still bill him:rolleyes: because he was such an a$$!:wink2:

WE DO NOT MAKE NEARLY ENOUGH, NO WAY, NO HOW!!!!!!!!!!

Maisy

Jules A, MSN · Aug 26, 2008

You brought up the plumber...:wink2:...and then mentioned ADNs make a good living....compared to what?
WE DO NOT MAKE NEARLY ENOUGH, NO WAY, NO HOW!!!!!!!!!!
Maisy

No actually I did NOT bring up the plumber someone else did. I mentioned it because I felt it was an unnecessary and irrelevant comment. Simple as that and I'd like to add to both you and Babs once again that I have no desire or intention to judge any profession as more worthwhile than another. As for ADNs making a good living, fine if you disagree but I will stand by what I wrote.

as a new grad with my ADN I'm making over $50 an hour when I do weekend work so no complaints from me.

beachbum3 · Aug 26, 2008

Just because you hear people complaining about the pay doesn't mean they don't like being a nurse. I think at times its a love-hate relationship:

I love my job. I had an hour long conversation with my best friend today (who I've known since I was 10) who is considering nursing school answering her questions, encouraging her and pointing out all the great things about nursing. I LOVE what I do. I was meant to be a nurse. I go to work and do something I'm good at that I enjoy. I walk away at the end of the day exhausted, practically unable to put a coherent thought or sentence together, but it never fails, every day, after an hour or so or rest a feeling of fulfillment comes over me because I know that I made a difference that day, however small, that there was purpose and meaning to what I spent my day doing. And every now and again I'll see, hear, or read something about a colleague who has touched someone and my eyes fill with tears because I am truly touched and overcome with pride to be a part of this profession, and I realize all over again that I finally have done something REALLY good with my life.

Now if someone had mentioned all of those things to me on Friday when I had the day from hell, running like crazy and dealing with an obnoxious, condescending, rude family I would have told them where to stick it. And after the family member spent 15 minutes being a complete jerk to me, going on and on and on about how he was right, and we were idiots and how I just didn't know what I was talking about, I thought to myself "I got paid about $6 for that" (especially considering it was that family that was putting me behind.. I dreaded going into the room because I knew I'd just lose more time) And at the middle of the day when I took a quick break and cried while I was in the cafeteria grabbing a soda, I thought, "All of this for $120. All of this craziness this morning only made me $120 so far"

I love my job, but for the amount of effort, stress, emotion and time I invest in it, I'm underpaid.

Neveranurseagain, RN · Aug 26, 2008

Well personally my plumber is worth every penny of $65 an hour. Years back I do think nurses were underpaid but for the most part now we make a good income, at least in my area of the country if you consider the amount of education needed for your ADN.

Well Jules, just ask a family member of a level one trauma or ICU pt. that you have been working on, and I will bet they will say:

"Well personally his nurse is worth every penny of $65 an hour." because it is a job that they can't do. And my plumber has no student loans and did not attend college.

And it was ME that brought up the plumber!

Jules A, MSN · Aug 26, 2008

Well Jules, just ask a family member of a level one trauma or ICU pt. that you have been working on, and I will bet they will say:
"Well personally his nurse is worth every penny of $65 an hour." because it is a job that they can't do. And my plumber has no student loans and did not attend college.
And it was ME that brought up the plumber!

Where is the disconnect???? I know nurses that make >$65 an hour and agree 100% that they are worth every penny and more. Never once did I say we aren't worth it and I totally don't understand your point becasue I seriously doubt that nurses would automatically get a raise if we stopped paying plumbers so much. And what does your decision to borrow money for your education have to do with anything? FWIW many of us don't have student loans.

:banghead:

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Aug 26, 2008

I'm sure this will raise a lot of peoples temp, but why is there so much whining about being underpaid and overworked?

Please review the thousands of threads about the conditions...the answers lie there.

I personally have little problem with what I get paid....but the working issues are what leaves less to be desirable.

Very few nurses dislike nursing, excluding those that get in the field with no intention of working as a nurse (the as quick as possible to ARNP or CRNA, peeps), what we gripe about is the customer service phones, lowjacks, beepers, administrative paperwork and bureaucracy overload.

If all I had to do was what I learned and practiced in nursing school, even with a higher ratio, I would be thrilled. But most of what I do, has less to do with good health care/medicine, and more about appeasing people as a glorified customer service rep. I became a nurse to nurse, not to be Walt Disney automaton (I already worked there as a teen - been there and done that).