Pain is not a "vital sign"

Nurses General Nursing

Published

There, I said it, now let the collective nursing/medical community rain fire upon me. I'm sorry, but I refuse to accept the idea that pain is a vital sign. I vital sign in a physiological response that is measurable, comparable and deviations represent a serious disruption of homeostasis. Pain is a subjective sensation felt in response to injury. The pain scale we use is useless for traditional "vital sign" purposes. I can't tell you how many times I've triaged a person with 10/10 belly pain while they sit there and eat McDonalds/doritos in front of me. I've never seen a person with a fever of 105, a HR of 180 or a RR of 40 sit there and eat McDonalds. The fact is that pain is far too subjective to be considered a "vital sign". VS are used to assess a patient's physiological condition, and are compared with normal ranges of known, universial numbers. That doesn't mean that pain is not important, because it is a useful tool. The pain scale can be used to asses the efficacy of treatment, but I don't think it's a good indication of homeostatis. For example, I once had a woman who was in a fairly minor car accident and had 4/10 side pain but she said she had a high tollerance for pain. Her spleen was ruptured. Yet our McDonalds friend is still in 10/10 pain. Without a frame of reference, the pain scale tells us little. There are a lot of other things that deserve to be a vital sign before pain does, such as pulseoximetry or blood glucose level. We care if our pt is in pain, but it should not be considered a VS... just my thoughts.

Is it just my school and work that counts pulse ox as a vital sign? My school teaches pain as the SIXTH vital sign and pulse ox is lumped in with the rest.

Specializes in Emergency.
...

Pain as a vital sign is very important in cardiac patients for example. Did nitro relieve the pain? How much did it relieve the pain. This info is as critical as any other measurement. Is the persons pain changing over time?

I was just thinking about the tridil drip with orders to titrate to chest pain.

Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.

This post makes me think that if a nurse thinks that pain is not as important as a fifth vital sign, methinks one isn't a good nurse...I could be wrong.

But that instantly comes to mind.

I think this is an interesting topic, and I agree with purplehockeymom that the purpose of allnurses is to discuss topics regarding nursing.

On the one hand, I have always felt the whole "pain is the 5th vital sign" to be a bit cheesy and annoying. I don't need to have it called a vital sign to understand its importance. And I also agree with the OP that a vital sign is supposed to be objective and measurable.

But on the other I think pain can be a pretty good sign that something isn't right. I agree with JoPACU - I worked pediatric oncology, and you might be surprised how often a kid would have pain and it would turn out they had some new tumor, or infection.

This post makes me think that if a nurse thinks that pain is not as important as a fifth vital sign, methinks one isn't a good nurse...I could be wrong.

I think you are misunderstanding his post. My interpretation was that the OP was not saying it isn't important, but that it does not meet the criteria to be called a vital sign. I don't think we have near enough information about him to start calling him a bad nurse, and nothing in his posts have indicated to me that he doesn't care about a patient being in pain.

Specializes in chemical dependency detox/psych.
This post makes me think that if a nurse thinks that pain is not as important as a fifth vital sign, methinks one isn't a good nurse...I could be wrong.

But that instantly comes to mind.

Let's try not to make this an attack post, okay? I hate seeing this.....the OP just was venting his frustration with how pain is assessed and the imperfection of a subjective scale. :trc: Working with the chemically dependent as I do, I understand the frustration. 99% of my patients are drug-seeking, so it makes it a bit tricky. Each area of nursing offers unique challenges, and perhaps this is a challenge where the OP works. I do always assess for pain, but I also have to use my nursing judgment as to whether they are trying to artificially raise their CIWA/COWS/SWS scale.

Perhaps I am veering off topic...but I also work with a population with a large number of IV drug users, either current or past, and they often say what they need to say to get more pain medicine. My question is, why shouldn't I let them have it, if it's ordered PRN and they are not overly sedated? Other nurses that follow me have criticized me when they see I have given 3 PRNs for a very ill pt over 12 hours, and remark that they would never let them have that much. Realistically, these patients are used to a lot of drugs, they can handle it, they are sick (I work in an ICU stepdown) and its ordered for them. Why shouldn't I use my own discretion (and sedation scale, RRs, etc) to decide how much they can have? I don't do drugs myself, but I empathize with people who have a longstanding addiction and are now in a lot of pain on top of it. Other people's thoughts?

Specializes in Level II & III NICU, Mother-Baby Unit.

I've been wrong before but it is my understanding that when I say "Pain is the 5th vital sign" I actually mean that I should remember to assess the patient for pain as often as I do their vital signs (T,P,R,B/P,etc) since pain can come and go with time and so I will remember to check them for pain on a regular basis...

Vital signs are generally taken on a regular basis so assessing for pain with vital signs helps me remember to check for this regularly too. I agree pain is not a vital sign itself, that it is very subjective, yet I also agree that it helps me remember to assess it when I'm checking the vitals too.

It's an abstract thought versus a concrete thought for me.

:twocents:

Yes, pain is not a vital sign. I agree. I see patients, eating macdonalds with pain 10/10 nearly evey day because after Mcdonalds they want percocet for decert. There is an agenda to make as more drug addicts in our hospitals as possible. Hospitals are stealing bussiness from dope dealers. Yes, Cancer patients needs strong painkillers but I do not think so about surgery. I myself had surgery, according to docs, with very painfull recovery. After wakening up, I have not taken any painkiller and still alife.

Specializes in LTC.

as a nursing student and as a nursing assistant, if a pt tells me they have 7-10/10 pain, i will take a quick glance at the faces scale and if they are laughing and appear relaxed and VS are fine, then when I report the pain level I tell the RN how they looked.(I can't wait till I can assess on my own) Pain is what the patient says it is, but if they look ok then maybe you don't have to rushing in there with the meds, or the nurse can go in a take a look at the pt.

Specializes in LTC, Memory loss, PDN.

I think some posters hit the nail on the head when they said "fifth vital sign" just means that it is that important and needs to be assessed for at least as often as "the other" vital signs. Pain level, in my opinion, is not a vital sign, but by calling it a vital sign it is given the attention and frequency of assessment it needs to have. Furthermore, if you have a patient with elevated vital signs (the traditional four), wouldn't it be nice to know if that patient is in pain. I do want to thank the OP for this thread, because it covers an important and ever changing area of nursing. And to those who see this as a pointless discussion - you are free to refrain from contributing.

You have to know their reference too. If someone tells you their pain is a 10/10, you have to find out what the worst pain they've actually felt is. If it's "wow my stomach hurts. the worst pain i've ever felt is a hang nail"... you get the picture.

"Pain is the 5th vital sign" is important for many reasons. Pain needs to be assessed frequently. It's as important as the others because it can tell you a LOT about what is going on with a patient physically. Wow, Bob hadn't had any pain all day and now he's having 8/10 acute abdominal pain... hmm something is wrong here. Sometimes, acute pain may be your only indication something is wrong initially.

I realize it's abused by patients. A lot. Especially in an ED. It's these patients that make us jaded, but we can't forget the real purpose of assessing pain frequently and assessing it well.

Edit: in oncology you have to ask often and be specific because a lot of cancer patients won't say much about their pain. They've been dealing with it for so long so they think they have to just suck it up.. or there isn't anything that can be done... etc.

+ Add a Comment