PA to CRNA

[mongo73]

1. Are there any CRNA programs that will accept Physician Assistants?

2. Most programs require a BSN to apply and one year of ICU care .

3. Are there any programs or schools out there that can work with PA's, without having to go back to school to get a BSN? Can on take classes on Nursing Model and get RN license as a PA and apply to a CRNA program?

4. My wife is tired of controlling doctors. (need help with schools list.) Thanks Guys!

[dfk, RN, CRNA]

You're in quite a legal pitfall if you plan to work as an RN while maintaining a PA license. Even though your scope will be limited to that of an RN, your liability will remain that of a PA. If you really intend to go this route, perhaps inactivating/retiring your PA license should be considered.

That said, the AA route seems more accessible-- though, for 2.5 years of PA school and 2(?) years of AA school, one wonders why the MDA route isn't considered.

uh, not sure where you were going with this, but depending on what your job role is where you're at, and what you're hired for, your scope depends on that, as well as liability.

[core0]

uh, not sure where you were going with this, but depending on what your job role is where you're at, and what you're hired for, your scope depends on that, as well as liability.

Not exactly. Its pretty well established for example that an NP who is working in the RN role will be held to the standard of care of an NP. Similarly if an MD who was also an RN was working as an RN they still would be held to the standard of care of an MD. For the PA though the scope is dependent on the supervising physician. As long as there was no overlap between the scope of the SP and the RN scope then you are probably OK.

David Carpenter, PA-C

[EricJRN, MSN, RN]

There are a number of Universities in places called "Columbia." Just didn't know if you mean Columbia University in NY or one of the others. Thanks.

http://sklad.cumc.columbia.edu/nursing/courses/programs/etp.php

[ihavegas]

Mongo..Your best bet, if have a desire to do anesthesia is to become an AA (check NovaSoutheastern UNiv) but you can only practice in a few states and are pigeon held beside an MD. That is the fastest route for you to do anesthesia. To be a CRNA it will take you 12-15months in an accelerated program and 1 year ICU then 28 months in a CRNA school. I would never be an AA or even recommend it to anyone but in your case it may be the better option.

[dfk, RN, CRNA]

Not exactly. Its pretty well established for example that an NP who is working in the RN role will be held to the standard of care of an NP. Similarly if an MD who was also an RN was working as an RN they still would be held to the standard of care of an MD. For the PA though the scope is dependent on the supervising physician. As long as there was no overlap between the scope of the SP and the RN scope then you are probably OK.

David Carpenter, PA-C

can you cite some "pretty well established" references? last i knew, you are held to the standards you are hired for. for example, if i'm a crna and work as an EMT-B, i can only perform those duties. so, i disagree.. it depends on the facility and role in which you were hired in.

dino kattato crna

[core0]

can you cite some "pretty well established" references? last i knew, you are held to the standards you are hired for. for example, if i'm a crna and work as an EMT-B, i can only perform those duties. so, i disagree.. it depends on the facility and role in which you were hired in.

dino kattato crna

The NSO and Tracy Klein disagree with you:

http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/506277_7

The NSO link no longer works but essentially dovetails with what the article says. The situation you describe is exactly the situation the article says to avoid. Consider that as an EMT-B you cannot intubate. However, as a CRNA you can. If you come across a patient that needs an advanced airway and you do not supply one then you are violating the standard of care as a CRNA. Its the same as a physician riding on an ambulance. Even if they are certified as an EMT they are still held to the standard of care of a physician.

David Carpenter, PA-C

[elkpark]

can you cite some "pretty well established" references? last i knew, you are held to the standards you are hired for. for example, if i'm a crna and work as an EMT-B, i can only perform those duties. so, i disagree.. it depends on the facility and role in which you were hired in.

dino kattato crna

This has been an established principle for a long time in healthcare. It's is a complicated issue, and the reason why a lot of employers simply won't hire people to work in positions below their credentials. The employer limits you to the activities of the job/role in which you're working (or, they're trying to exploit you by getting the higher level of performance for the lower level of pay), but, if something goes wrong and there is a lawsuit, the courts will hold you to the highest level of education/licensure/credentials you hold. For instance, if an RN is working in a CNA role (for whatever reason -- low census, CNAs all called in, whatever), the RN doesn't get to forget everything s/he knows as an RN. If s/he observes something dangerous, that an RN should know about but not a CNA, and doesn't take appropriate action (as an RN), s/he is liable for not having taken appropriate actions to keep the client safe.

Here's one reference, from the Maine BON (emphasis mine):

Practice Below Level of Licensure

A licensed person who agrees to be employed in a position which requires less knowledge and skill than that for which s/he is prepared may find several problems:

1. S/he may be expected to perform at the level for which s/he has been prepared even though classified at a lesser level; and

2. S/he will be held to the standard expected of the higher licensure level should legal problems occur in that health care facility, no matter what the job classification.The practice of employing licensed individuals to work below their level of preparation, as defined in the LAW REGULATING THE PRACTICE OF NURSING, places that licensed nurse in potential legal jeopardy and is of serious concern to the Board. (1985)

http://www.maine.gov/boardofnursing/questions/questions_general.html

[droopy1592]

the answer to all of your questions. one of the cardiothoracic pas in my icu did this

http://www.emoryaaprogram.org/

students in the pa admissions track enter in january, and classroom and clinical education span 19 continuous months with graduation in august - five semesters following matriculation. the pa admissions track is open to certified primary care physician assistants (pa-cs) who have completed masters-level courses in anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology.

individuals who successfully complete this program are awarded a master of medical science degree by emory university. in june of the senior year, students in both tracks take the national certifying examination for anesthesiologist assistants. following graduation and successful completion of the certifying examination, graduates can become integral anesthetist members of an anesthesia care team practice lead by an anesthesiologist.

[dpk1004]

What are the reasons why PA's are wanting to become CRNA's?

[plowboy911]

What are the reasons why PA's are wanting to become CRNA's?

I am really interested to know this as well. Completely different tracks. Money???

Where I work the CRNAs are no more "independent" than a PA would be.