Outraged by no more privacy

Published

I want to know why do RNs, LPNs, and NAs now need to have their fingerprints in the system in PA. I consider this a huge violation of privacy for employees. Under what circumstance would they need the fingerprints in the first place. And I've tried to find the law that states it be required. Other than having most of my entire history, criminal background, child abuse clearance, and drug test, along with my SS# everywhere, why do I need to subject myself to more validity and no privacy. By the way, I have nothing on my record and have never taken (nor will I ever) taken drugs. So this isn't about covering up indiscrepancies. If you agree or have an opposing view please comment. And if anyone knows the law I'm looking for and could provide a link. Thanks.

If people don't like the requirements, both government and hospital imposed, then they can exercise their 'Liberty' and choose not be a nurse.

Amen! Or they can exercise their liberty and move to another country...... Since they think they have it so bad!:yeah:

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Should any one who sees bodyscans and fingerprinting as an invasion of privacy be shipped out? Where else is there for them to go? Is this not the country for those free to dissent? The Bill of Rights itself was included because George Mason dissented. What if he had not? The US Constitution is a very short document to read and worthy of every citizen's, at least, single read. Better still to examine the discourse of the founding fathers and how they came to the conclusion to include the Bill of Rights. Constitution of the United States - Official

It was a hallmark document then and now. Freedom of speech, freedom from unreasonable search, freedom of religion. The right to due process (government and police powers cannot remove your rights/freedom without following lawful procedure). Amendment IV is about privacy. The right to petition the government with grievances [means complaint] (including complaints about loss of amendment rights and freedoms without being shipped to another country or to an isolated island).

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***Warning......VENT ahead....*****

What nobody seems to acknowledge is the enemy is coming from outside our borders to attack us...so we grope our disabled senior citizens (yep, he looks like a potential terrorist!) or worse yet...the image of a muslim (and YES those that have attacked us recently are muslim (terrorists)) giving an invasive pat down to a nun in a habit!!! The strip searches of young toddlers screaming. Yep! That'll keep us safe!

The jihadits have now determined that they are going to implant explosives in breast implants and stick C4 in rectums....so are we going to allow the TSA to stick a needle in our implants to determine the contents or perform a colonoscopy just to get on a plane!?!?!?!? At some point we all have to say NO MORE!

What is absolutely hysterical (bordering in hysteria) is that a portion of this country has gotten so wildly PC that they believe it is OK to allow muslim women to do a "self" pat down so that their "modesty is preserved"....wow. really?! (Not yet TSA approved, but CAIR is working on it.)

Personally, I will hang out nude in a nudist resort before I succumb to the TSA's intrusiveness.....and YES! I have chosen not to fly until we oust the idiots putting all this crap in place and reverse it.

Painful truth....a more effective way to stop the terrorists is to terrorize them. When they FEAR repurcussions, they will stop. Right now, the libs have gone way too far into "negotiating with terrorists" not realizing that the religious books that they (terrorists) use to justify their jihad instruct them;"If lying would further the goals of Islam, it is not only permitted to lie, but REQUIRED". Basically, their word means nothing.

The TSA has not made it safer to fly. They just aided in delusions of safety.

We have this strange thing in our constitution.... it is called the 4th amendment. The choice to fly does NOT exempt me from this being "unreasonable search". As it has been said way too often.... we do not give up our constitutional rights at the gate - nor should we allow a TSA agent to do that which would be considered sexual assault by any other person. Even police cannot randomly pull over anyone and search them!

Now my take on the fingerprinting....I could care less if the fingerprinting is used for my license. Once I have that license, I do not support futher FBI checks by employers. (The BON should handle suspending licenses for convictions post licensure.) The FBI check gives employers data that I believe that NO EMPLOYER has the right to have. Here is society's hypocrisy.... Say Jane Smith, RN moved from one state to another and found out during a visit to the previous locale that there was a warrant for a bad check. (whole thing got messed up in the transition...service of notifications provided a location where she no longer lived....) She ends up with a misdemeanor conviction in her history. Now say YEARS later......she is arrested for a terrible felony. The charges are dropped. She cannot have that charge expunged because of that earlier check. NO EMPLOYER needs to ever know about the arrest. But the background check will give it to them. Do you really think this person will get an honest shake in today's economy....gee look.. Mrs. Smith had this felony arrest for.....(pick a crime....let's go horrific....sex abuse of a child!!!!) Do you really think they will hire her?!?!?

We have gone too far folks. We are supposed to be a country of innocent until proven guilty. Ask anyone who has dealt with the legal community....that is a JOKE. Then they don't erase things you weren't convicted of....(they will most likely claim that they will report charges dropped).... so no harm no foul. So you are the HR rep and this nurse with oh let's say 20 yrs experience wants a job in peds....do you REALLY think you would hire her?!?!?!

Folks DO get arrested erroneously. My sis-in-law was arrested. Her Name and DL# matched another woman's and that woman was a wanted criminal. My sis-in-law is white and rotund. The criminal is black and thin. Didn't matter. My sis-in-law had to post bond (money she will never get back) and spend a night in jail! Oh yeah, they released her and dropped charges, but a background check will show the arrest!

Got another one for ya...my brother John Smith (of course not real but he does have a common name) was born in brooklyn 2-25-19xx. ANOTHER man, John Smith, was born in the bronx 2-25-19xx! My brother had to hire a lawyer to fight a disoderly conduct charge against JS II because there was no DL# or ID# listed so they could not differentiate him from the other John Smith. This was found during a background check for a job.

I had a year long fight with HSBC. Seems they had a FLMomof5 default on her furniture loan. But not me! Yes, it's you! No it isn't! Well, you bought your first $xxxx.xx worth of furniture from us in 1970. Really? Well in 1970 I was NOT FLMomof5! I was OKchildof2.....how often do you give loans to 8 year olds?!?!?

Good credit or not...it doesn't affect my ability to do my job. It doesn't affect the way I drive! What I have experienced is a horrific divorce, layoff ad nauseum and so there is a ding here and there. I am owed over $100K in child support I will never see.

These checks do not accurately reflect US, who we are, why we are where we are and gives the potential for being judged for actions of others or to judge us "guilty" where we were never convicted.:spbox: Climbin off soapbox and returning you to the thread!

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Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Amen! Or they can exercise their liberty and move to another country...... Since they think they have it so bad!:yeah:

Thanks, but I love my country, and think it's the ultimate act of patriotism to express when I'm unhappy with the choices of my government, and work to effect change from within.

But I'm sure you LOVE everything that Obama has done, and wouldn't dare criticize him, right? Because then, well, if you're so unhappy and all that...

And frankly, I think the "quitcherbitchin!" attitude is so incredibly offensive. It is the absolute ANTITHESIS of the principles upon which our country was founded. Shame on ANYONE who would dare say "If you're so unhappy here, why don't you just move to a different country." Thanks, no! Being free to express my dislike for the choices of my government is the definition of being an American!

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Specializes in ICU, Acute Dialysis, Telemetry/Stepdown.

Security measures evolve and change according to the issues created in the real world by real people. How long have there been the security measures in place in OB units? WHY were those measures instituted? Could it have been because of numerous REAL people baby snatching? There are multiple documented events when this has happened.

Same goes for numerous REAL events involving healthcare workers abusing patients...physically, sexually. Not to mention, the stealing of patient belongings, narcotics, etc by healthcare workers that HAS occurred.

All of these measures add up to, hopefully, a successful screen of all healthcare personnel to eliminate people who may have already done these things elsewhere - or may have a pre-disposition to do these things because of other problems they have had in their past.

Would any of you who are screaming "NO PRIVACY!" be at ease being a patient in a facility where no screening took place?

If you can honestly say that you would be a patient in a facility like that does not screen any of their employees, then fine...keep on fighting for your 'freedoms'...otherwise, yes...."quitchyourbitchin'.

Not to mention, facilities are CYA's with these screenings...so that if anything DOES happen, they cannot be held at fault for hiring unstable personnel without trying to avoid it at all cost. Can you imagine the lawsuit??

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.

We haven't had privacy in a long, long time, but it's just easier to investigate someone with the technology we have. As long as there have been banks, people have known how much money you have. As long as there have been driver's licenses, people have your name, picture, address, SSN, and DL#. As long as vital statistics have been collected, people know your birth date, parents' names, DOD, where you were born, and what you died of.

Right now, my internet provider knows I'm posting on this board. When I get in the car and turn on my GPS, someone in this world knows where I am and where I'm going. The IRS knows how much we make, how many kids we have, how old they are, where we keep our money, when we've cashed in mutual funds, etc.

I google myself occasionally and for the bargain basement price of $39.95 on those aggregate websites, you can see where I live, my last four addresses, my age, who I married, how much we paid for our home, the name of my husband's ex-wife, and my unlisted landline number.

We give away our privacy on a daily basis. Congress gives it away even more. Privacy has and always will be an illusion. We can only hope that people aren't interested in us and will refrain from using the tools at their disposal.

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If there is one thing I learned from the military it is this, Freedom is not free and you have to sacrafice some element of privacy to ensure safety.

Sacrifice some element of privacy!? There's nothing left to sacrifice after this! I understood/tolerated all the background requirements but the fingerprinting is the last straw. It's as if you constantly have to prove yourself over and over that you're not an A-class criminal. After getting fingerprinted what element of privacy is there left to sacrifice, what kind of condom you use?

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I imagine that people should expect at least that level of security when it comes to their bodies and their medical privacy....

Everywhere we go out to eat has to do with our bodies but some places you barely need a high school diploma or G.E.D. Where's the line drawn when most of everything we do concerns potiential risks to our lives? Other than fingerprinting, we go through rigorious background checks to ensure we're safe and capable of the jobs bestowed upon us. Why do "standard" regulations regarding our well being concern some but not all who affect it?

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Would any of you who are screaming "NO PRIVACY!" be at ease being a patient in a facility where no screening took place?

It seems that some of you have gotten on to a discussion of all to no screening. The post was about fingerprinting. I have dealt with and accepted all the background checks and clearances, but the fingerprinting to me was simply the last pillar of privacy to go down. So to this post I ask the question "Would you feel at ease being a patient at a facility that has all the background checks and clearances employers do now except for the fingerprints?" See, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch, as some of you have made it out to be.

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Specializes in ICU, Acute Dialysis, Telemetry/Stepdown.
Everywhere we go out to eat has to do with our bodies but some places you barely need a high school diploma or G.E.D. Where's the line drawn when most of everything we do concerns potiential risks to our lives? Other than fingerprinting, we go through rigorious background checks to ensure we're safe and capable of the jobs bestowed upon us. Why do "standard" regulations regarding our well being concern some but not all who affect it?

Comparing the preparation of food at a restaurant, and working in healthcare on equal ground, is an unrealistic stretch of the imagination. Preparation of food does not compare at all to the level of access a healthcare worker has to another human being's body.

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Specializes in ICU, Acute Dialysis, Telemetry/Stepdown.
Would any of you who are screaming "NO PRIVACY!" be at ease being a patient in a facility where no screening took place?

It seems that some of you have gotten on to a discussion of all to no screening. The post was about fingerprinting. I have dealt with and accepted all the background checks and clearances, but the fingerprinting to me was simply the last pillar of privacy to go down. So to this post I ask the question "Would you feel at ease being a patient at a facility that has all the background checks and clearances employers do now except for the fingerprints?" See, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch, as some of you have made it out to be.

I'm sure at one point people balked at the thought of having a thorough background check done for employment purposes. Wasn't there similar 'outrage' as employers started requiring urine samples during pre-employment screenings?

I do believe you missed my main point in that all security measures were derived out of necessity when previous measures proved not to be enough. As I said before, security measures evolve and change according to what happens in the real world. Maybe instead of quoting an incomplete line from my post, try reading the entire post and try to get the whole meaning I'm attempting to convey.

Also, as another poster once stated...we do leave our fingerprints laying around willy-nilly anyway...... ;)

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Think it through!

A criminal SCREEN can be done WITHOUT invading privacy.

For what reason would your employer need your FINGERPRINTS?

You've already agreed to a CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK by your employer. Most crime convictions in US have been computer logged for the last 20 years. If the individual is still on parole or has been registered as a sex offender that will show in the record. So the potential employer has the SCREEN to find criminal history. [And unfortunately also NON-criminal history in NON-convicted INNOCENT but appearing guilty, ARREST records.] Convictions are PUBLIC record (if convicted you lose the privacy). The investigation was done, the trial occurred, evidence reviewed, the court/jury decided. That is a lot of due process before conviction, even still evidence can be manufactured. Innocent people can still be convicted for having opinions or being in the wrong place, even in this country.

So your employer can find the criminals WITHOUT your fingerprints. Screen done.

For what reason would your employer need your FINGERPRINTS?

NO good reason. They are not law enforcement. Fingerprinting today is a PRE-CRIME CATALOGUE SYSTEM.

Back in the day when I first became a nurse it was ILLEGAL to obtain someone's fingerprints UNLESS they were CHARGED with a crime [because it violated the 4th amendment right to be "secure in your person" if there was no evidence against you]. Fingerprints are attached to your body, thus one aspect of "person"; they belong to you, not your employer.

An arrest does not equal a charge. [Charge means 'we THINK we have evidence you did this crime.'] ANYONE can be arrested. Arrest simply means 'Halt, law enforcement wants to check this out'. Then they either let the person go or if after the halt, if evidence is found, a charge occurs, then the fingerprinting, trial etc.

With Pre-crime Fingerprinting of everyone, you go past innocence, past arrest and go directly to charged.

The State considers nursing a privilege, not a right (you have access to others privacy among the privileges). Thus if they decide fingerprinting is necessary to grant that privilege as a way of monitoring access to the profession then the State has that right according to the US Constitution (rights not reserved to federal government belong to the State).

However, no one should give that right to your employer.

The Court rules that a right not exercised or protected by you is considered relinquished, including right to privacy. However if every employer of nurses requires Fingerprinting, how will a nurse exercise that other right, "right to pursue life" as stated in the Declaration of Independence? Law considers pursuit of your livelihood, right to pursue life, since most have to do something to obtain the means to life - food, shelter, etc.

As long as the majority 'have nothing to hides' see invasion of privacy of nurses as OK, it will remain a challenge for those nurses who want to exercise and maintain their right to bodily, personal privacy [that includes PRECRIME URINE TESTS] and eventually it is made easier for all employers to require everyone to relinquish their 4th amendment rights in order to pursue life. And that will be the END of the 4th amendment.

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