Online program recommendations

Specialties NP

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I am thinking of doing my FNP at Rutgers I live in NJ. Any recommendations for programs in my state or online programs?

TY

You know this, which is why it burns you that schools like mine are completely booked up for the next five years with students. It must be devastating for you to strongly believe in such a discriminatory position where no evidence exists.

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I've taken classes online before, so this is something I've experienced. I could have saved a ton of money and it would have been FAR more convenient for me to have done my 2 programs online. I knew that employers might question an online degree, because I've witnessed this before. It was a MAJOR hardship to go through 2 traditional programs, but it was well worth it!

It seems as if you've never heard of anyone question the validity/quality of online degrees. When I started school in the early 2000's, they were very much "looked down" on. I don't have time to get online and look up a bunch of studies to prove my point, since I'm a very busy NP. However, I did find the following link that mentions studies that have been done on this topic. Here's the link...

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/current/archive/2007/12/19/dotcom-degrees.aspx?print=true

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Specializes in ICU, ER, RESEARCH, REHAB, HOME HEALTH, QUALITY.
It might be "touchy" because there are many who realize the benefits of distance education and apparently you have not availed yourself of the opportunity to educate yourself on the subject.

Studies...there are hundreds if not many more. You can be sure the educational establishments have spent a lot of time on this subject. Just to get you started, you can visit http://www.uiweb.uidaho.edu/eo/dist9.html. There is also The American Journal of Distance Education. The fact that there is no PA or medical schools that offer distance education (is that a fact?) just shows how far behind they are and how entrenched they are in their outdated modes of education. I've also heard medical students say that their professors video tape their lectures so students can view them any time, so they just skip class and watch the videos later.

This is also true of any program and I've got plenty of stories about students from "brick and mortar" programs. I've seen physicians who can't perform many techniques. I've even taught them! All you can say about your local program is that your local program is no good. You can't generalize to other programs.

You also keep mentioning "100% online." This implies there is no clinical and I know that's not true. However, I'll bet a person could do 100 different online "cases" much faster than the time it actually takes to see 100 different patients and come out much better prepared for the next 100 live patients.

I would hope in the future you would do a little research before trying to offer "expert" advice.

And, just for the record, our entire educational system (for the most part) from preschool on up needs overhauling.

I don't think the issue is what is a better education, what is worse is that individuals are able to get a NP degree that were never RN's first, and many of these individuals are taking online courses, and if they have no experience as a bedside nurse the transition would be challenging in the role of NP. Is the shortage so bad that we are letting any one become a NP because they have the cash and grade point?

many of the online programs I have reviewed require clinical practice, you will not get that clinical experience you need online and thats a fact, no matter how you cut it, and how could you feel confident in that role, it takes a new grad about a year to feel confortable doing what they do. being a NP is totally different.. you are the provider making medical decisions.... this is not to be taken lightly and I feel there are some great programs out there online, but I could not image no clinicals.. I say run you are setting yourself up for a bad ride and I think most experienced RN's know that, those I worry about are the individuals who never worked as a bedside nurse and then become NP thats the issue, because they don't have a clue!!:no:

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I think not only are you insecure about your position but jealous of those that choose to work smarter and more efficently with an online based program-it's 2008 GET ONLINE! Maybe you wished you should have done the same?!? There is no need to compare PAs and MDs with NPs they are all totally different. There may be no online programs for PAs but there is no way I would consider someone with 2-3 years (if that) of medical training to treat me (I am referring to PAs). If the public knew that some PAs have only the equivulant of an associates degree would they see them? I also wonder if you graduated from second rate brick and mortar school and feel like the only way you can feel secure about yourself is to throw off on online NP programs-There are a lot of wonderful NPs in my area that graduated from USA (an online based program) and are highly sought after upon completion of their degrees. :rolleyes:

I'm sitting here in the ED and a doc is sitting next to me reading this. We're both laughing our heads off! Do you really think I'm JEALOUS b/c I didn't have a chance to do my programs online? BOY, ARE YOU OFF BASE! I did 7 hours online at USA (Univ of S. Alabama) and decided that I needed "hands on" and "face to face" experiences. There was no way I was going to take on this much responsibility without getting the best education possible. It would have been so easy to have completed my programs online and far less stressful as well.

I've seen online NP students who spent their clinical hours at inappropriate sites. They never had to worry, because their instructors never showed up to monitor them. I know of one FNP who spent almost her entire clinical hours with a NEUROLOGIST who didn't see kids! I've seen online schools that don't check out the preceptors' credentials and students get trained by non-board certified physicians. It's difficult to find preceptors and some NP's may end up staying at places where they can just "rack up hours," even though they aren't getting the training they need. Since there's no one to monitor them, they get away with it. Most of the FNP programs only require 500-700 clinical hours and it's disturbing to think that those few hours aren't even being spent in the appropriate setting.

As far as PA's and MD's, I would be very skeptical about being a patient of a MD who received his education online. Don't get me wrong, he might be a perfectly good doctor, but there's something bothersome about someone at that level who didn't attend a traditional medical school. How do I know that he/she didn't have someone else take their online tests? How do I know they were trained by board certified physicians?

Everyone has their own opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

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We could argue ad nauseum about "my program can beat up your program", and until actual research provides us with some data, we can't declare one is better than the other.

Tammy, you assert that online is as good or better than brick and mortar education, but since you have only done distance education in nursing, how can you say this without bias? I assume you have taken a research class.

And ANPFNPGP has made some good points about the monitoring of preceptors (or lack thereof) in online programs. However, I get the feeling this goes on in the brick and mortar programs too. My own brick and mortar/online program gets preceptors for us. However, some of my coworkers in other programs have to get their own preceptors, and I do wonder how appropriate these preceptors are, and if, indeed, the experience just ends up "burning hours".

Another point I must make is that online programs often do not use the internet in a way that could provide a richer experience. It's very easy for a school to assign readings, have a discussion group, and then say the class is online. Seldom do I see interactive tutorials, practice quizzes, web-cam lectures or the like in online formats. The technology is not being used as it could be.

So, I still assert that, having done both online and brick and mortar, that brick and mortar has given me a richer experience.

Oldiebutgoodie

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The goal of any NP degree, whether online or traditional, is employment. Because physicians are the primary employers of NP's, I think that it is more important to consider their opinion on degree format. Do most physicians have favorable views of online NP degrees or traditional ones? Since there are no online MD degrees and most physicians know that learning medicine requires clinical time and experience with a knowledgeable and competent preceptor, I would argue that most physicians would not look at online degrees favorably. Don't believe me? Why don't the online degree supporters ask the physicians over on SDN for their opinions? They are, after all, most likely the future employers for NP's and PA's.

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I'm sitting here in the ED and a doc is sitting next to me reading this. We're both laughing our heads off!

In one post you're too busy to look up research (which is extremely important to do) and in several others sitting around laughing all the time with a doc.

Sorry, I just couldn't pass this one up :D

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
Tammy, you assert that online is as good or better than brick and mortar education, but since you have only done distance education in nursing, how can you say this without bias? I assume you have taken a research class.

First, please take some time to reread my posts. Not once have I ever claimed that one form of education delivery is superior. Second, after you take a moment to think about my responses to those who tend to disparage distance education delivery you will note a central theme. That is there is clear evidence that distance education programs are just as effective as traditional, or what some may consider dated systems of educational delivery. This is clearly evident in that experts in the field of psychometrics, programmatic evaluation and institutional accreditation have provided both institutional and programmatic accreditation to institutions that offer distance nursing education. Just like traditional programs. How do you reconcile the fact that both distance education and traditional education pathways are regionally and programmatically accredited by CCNE, NLAN and regional accrediting bodies if those institutions are providing a substandard product. Perhaps they are just paying them off.

And ANPFNPGP has made some good points about the monitoring of preceptors (or lack thereof) in online programs.

Yeah, so lets look at some astute observations by ANPFNGNP:

As an experienced NP who precepts NP students from a 100% online program...I don't recommend it! I've been very disappointed in the preparedness of my students and the majority of them have years of nursing experience. All that hospital experience has NOT prepared them for outpatient practice!.

Same is true for traditional students. In fact, my preceptor has never passed a "traditional" NP student.

It would be very easy for them to submit papers someone else has written and have someone else take their tests. I'm floored that there isn't more oversight.

Another award winning observation. Same is true for traditional pathways. And as far as exams go, people can cheat in any environment, lest we forget, this phenomenon had been occurring at least a few years prior to the advent of the distance education concept.

The navy has recently stopped accepting those with an online BSN from applying to becoming a commissioned officer in the navy nurse course..

Another example of a factually inaccurate statement. Not by ANPFNPGNP, but just the same, demonstrates a complete lack of accountability by not being truthful. A growing trend on this board by those who are so blinded by bias against distance education they tend to fabricate facts and mislead others.

One of my personal favorites:

It's all due to supply and demand. Online programs are certainly contributing to an oversupply of NP's and this will affect both urban and rural areas - I'm currently seeing this in my area. I do feel that states will get stricter and place restrictions on 100% online programs, then there will be fewer of us and salaries will rise. A few years ago, there were a few states that wouldn't recognize online NP degrees. I don't know if that's still the case...anyone out there know?

I don't even know where to start with this one.

The local online NP program in my area is graduating 60-80 FNP's a semester and I live in a city with a population of less than 300,000. Every single midlevel in town is worried about the oversupply of midlevels, because it is affecting us all.

Why would anyone every be worried if they truly know, as evidenced by reading literature through science magazines such as Newsweek, about a distance ed graduate taking their job?

We could argue ad nauseum about "my program can beat up your program", and until actual research provides us with some data, we can't declare one is better than the other.

Exactly, and that is why it is inappropriate and unacceptable to make statements of fact that not supported by evidence. And I am not speaking of the ANPFNPGY garbage dug up from Newsweek from studies than have more methodological holes in it than a leaky colander.

I assume you have taken a research class.

Yes I have, and in case it has been a while for you, I invite you to revisit the concept of generalization.

It is crystal clear that you and ANPFNPGYNDOPAL are very threatened by distance education and those graduates who will soon be taking your jobs. My advice is to relax and consider a distance education DNP program so you can be competitive in an every-shrinking job market for NP's. As far as casting aspersions on the distance education process, the efforts are having very little impact as with my school (just one of 48 distance ed FNP programs and growing)---they are booked with 90 FNP students each term for the next 5 years.

As far as your comment about me never attending a traditional classroom setting type nursing deal, you are correct, never done that so I wouldn't know the difference. I also never ate broken glass or paint chips before so I couldn't tell you what that was like either.

Keep up the good work.

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Tammy,

Why would I be threatened by distance education programs when I have written that in my program I take both brick and mortar and online classes?

Oldiebutgoodie

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In one post you're too busy to look up research (which is extremely important to do) and in several others sitting around laughing all the time with a doc.

Sorry, I just couldn't pass this one up :D

We had a couple of minutes to spare in the ED last night - 10 minutes to be exact. That doctor enjoys reading this forum and he actually asked me to pull it up to see if there were any more posts on this subject. BTW, he's astounded there are 100% online programs and yes, he's aware that a student has to complete a minimum of 500 clinical hours, which is far too few.

I posted a link on this topic earlier. However, I don't have time to spend looking up all the studies that were mentioned in that link. If you can't find it in this forum, let me know and I'll locate it for you.

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As far as PA's and MD's, I would be very skeptical about being a patient of a MD who received his education online. Don't get me wrong, he might be a perfectly good doctor, but there's something bothersome about someone at that level who didn't attend a traditional medical school. How do I know that he/she didn't have someone else take their online tests? How do I know they were trained by board certified physicians?

Everyone has their own opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

I think it's a little unfair to be treated as "the bad guy" because you don't happen to jump on the band wagon and beat the drum for online programs.

I'm in an online RN to BSN program. I'm supposed to start my last semester in January. Figuring out and arranging assignments, participating in online discussions, etc. has devoured so much of my time, and I don't necessarly think in a good way, either. I feel like I've missed some important aspects of learning by staring at a computer rather than being in a classroom with a lecturer. I think for those who are nurses already, advancing your credentials online can have its benefits, but beyond a BSN I don't think we can to go to Joe's NP School Online and expect that isn't going to raise a few eyebrows.

And don't even mention an online MD program, what kind of a joke would that be? With that said, why should NP's not want to preserve the credibility of their profession the same?

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not once have i ever claimed that one form of education delivery is superior.

that's not true, you've mentioned that online programs were better in prior posts. that may not have been your exact words, but that's what you inferred. btw, i don't have time to find the posts.

i agree that some of the classes can be online, but there needs to be face to face time as well.

tammy, please don't take it out on us if the online version was the only option you had.

in fact, my preceptor has never passed a "traditional" np student.

i know, you've told us multiple times. you must be very proud of the fact that you are the only midlevel he has ever passed.

and as far as exams go, people can cheat in any environment, lest we forget, this phenomenon had been occurring at least a few years prior to the advent of the distance education concept.

it's a whole lot easier to cheat when you're taking tests online. if all the tests were proctored, then i don't have a problem with certain online classes.

it is crystal clear that you and anpfnpgyndopal are very threatened by distance education and those graduates who will soon be taking your jobs.

i have already proven myself time and again in the np job market. i'm not threatened that you are going to take my job. i'm concerned that online programs are a potential threat to the np profession. it remains to be seen.

another thing, i had a student show me everything she did online for her classes. it was ridiculous b/c she had to read text online. basically, she was paying for an online textbook. it's not healthy to sit at the computer for hours every day.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
I think it's a little unfair to be treated as "the bad guy" because you don't happen to jump on the band wagon and beat the drum for online programs.

I'm in an online RN to BSN program. I'm supposed to start my last semester in January. Figuring out and arranging assignments, participating in online discussions, etc. has devoured so much of my time, and I don't necessarly think in a good way, either. I feel like I've missed some important aspects of learning by staring at a computer rather than being in a classroom with a lecturer. I think for those who are nurses already, advancing your credentials online can have its benefits, but beyond a BSN I don't think we can to go to Joe's NP School Online and expect that isn't going to raise a few eyebrows.

And don't even mention an online MD program, what kind of a joke would that be? With that said, why should NP's not want to preserve the credibility of their profession the same?

It sounds to me that distance education was a poor fit for you, as my experience has been the opposite. I'm curious, since you are about to graduate, exactly how long did it take for you to become aware of this?

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