Online Nursing Schools vs Traditional Schools

[canwil2082]

To become a nurse was not a childhood dream of mine. It was something that I discovered I had a passion for in my early twenties. I had always loved math and science and figured I would become a scientist one day. I fell in love with nursing due to the study of the human body and the art of nursing itself. I have always had a compassion for people especially the older generation.

My family was unable to support me during my early years while pursuing my current dream of becoming a caring professional nurse. I enrolled in a Licensed Practical Nursing program in 2006. The school was over 60 miles one way from my dad's house. In addition, I had to go to the school five days a week while working three different jobs. I was a lower income student that had to struggle to find a foothold in the college education bracket.

Through much hard work, I passed the first two semesters of my practical nursing program. I was on top of the world at this point. I was approached by the director of the program to be grandfathered into the Registered Nurse (RN) program. They were looking to start a two year RN program and we were the guinea pigs. At first I had my reservations, thankfully at the pressing of the director I changed my mind and proceeded with the program. The program required another year of school and funds that I just did not have access to at the time. Thankfully my grades had obtained me a scholastic scholarship to continue for another year. My enthusiasm for nursing continued to be on the rise.

The end of nursing school for the RN program came so fast. It was May of 2008 and I was being pinned with my RN pin. I passed my boards and went on to have six and a half years of good RN experience. My time in the acute care setting for three years taught me much about the truth of nursing. I changed my track and went into long term care with a new sense of direction.

I was back where I started, but this time I would be in the RN role instead of the CNA. It was in this position for four years that I learned much about leadership. In addition, my time in this setting taught me much about nurse burnout. I never wanted to become that nurse. I thought since I had such high hopes about nursing that I would never fall to that excruciating word. I felt like I had lost the ability to care anymore.

Behind my convincing smile, I was deeply hurt by emotions. I was emotionally overwhelmed and I knew that I needed change. I searched for other jobs, but it felt like I needed something more than additional burnout.

I found a nursing program online that would lead me to a Master's of Science in Nursing Education. I had always loved my time in school. The atmosphere of learning, facilitating, and teaching was what excited me the most. I did an enormous amount of research on the program. I was always leery about an online program due to the stigma of an online degree. However, I did my investigation and discovered that the school was fully accredited by one of the major nurse accreditation agencies. In addition, the program was set to be in alignment with the National League for Nursing standards of nurse educators. The school was recognized by the US Department of Education as well.

I enrolled in the program and graduation was before me. The program was intense, and it helped me grow professionally and personally. In the process of obtaining my degree, I discovered I had the ability to think and analyze. I found a new sense of purpose in nursing. I could see myself teaching future nursing students. I realized that I care about their success and that I wanted to see them succeed.

I wanted to teach because I genuinely care about the students and their success. I found out soon enough the dirty truth about teaching in a traditional brick and mortar college. It hurts me say that even in an environment that is a part of highly intelligent individuals, bullying still takes place. I was told that I would not be hired by a local four year university to teach nursing because my degree was from an unknown online school. After all my hard work, I was destroyed on the inside when I discovered this devastating truth about most four year traditional universities.

The hopes of this letter is to educate the nursing profession about the sad reality of bullying in a center for education. The stigma of an online degree remains, even though the program I graduated from was recognized by the White House for what is right in higher education.

This innovative program allowed me to utilize my work experience. Furthermore, I was able to obtain this accredited degree with much flexibility that was customized to me. I fully believe that this program was the perfect one for me.

It is unfortunate that because some institutions do not consider my degree valuable. I will have a higher chance of failure at obtaining a successful career at these types of institutions. Are we not greater than that?

This reminds of a time when grade school children fight over whose lunch is better, or whose clothes are the best. Even though I fought nail and tooth to rise above my circumstances, I was shot down by those who think their degree is better than mine. My hopes is that my degree will lead me to make a significant difference in the lives of future nursing students no matter where I may land.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

I believe it is a part of the weed out process.

First it was Bsn over the Adn.

Now its online Bsn vs B and M.

Although this has not caught on everywhere,(but is happening in my area) many employers are asking for transcripts.

They are looking at GPA's.

Your employers appear to have overstepped ethical lines. They are employers , not educators nor do they represent learning other than possible on going training.

Is it possible they want to assess staff for advanced studies and will offer paid tuition? ( optimistic thinking) Otherwise, how can they justify this action- other than an invasion of personal data. It is up to the graduating school to provide GPAs to another educational institution - when a student lists the school as a part of background learning. The employer hires the qualified grad based upon evidence of success.

Pessimistically, is this a new method to hire and fire? In many workplaces, there are HR persons without a degree at all, placed in positions of power and acting as HR / manager for nurses with superior learning. This is a disasterous scenario and provokes havoc and chaos in addition to resentment. The new paradigm of nursing management ?

What, exactly, are the ethical lines that the employer has overstepped? Is it not an employer's right to apply whatever criteria they deem important to their hiring practices? (Other than the obviously illegal discrimination, of course.)

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

Your employers appear to have overstepped ethical lines. They are employers , not educators nor do they represent learning other than possible on going training.

Is it possible they want to assess staff for advanced studies and will offer paid tuition? ( optimistic thinking) Otherwise, how can they justify this action- other than an invasion of personal data. It is up to the graduating school to provide GPAs to another educational institution - when a student lists the school as a part of background learning. The employer hires the qualified grad based upon evidence of success.

And the employer requesting transcripts or GPAs is not acting illegally or being unethical. Academic achievement is also not a protected class.

If it was illegal or unethical to deny someone employment based on their GPA, I imagine the "C=RN" crowd would be rushing to file lawsuits...

[joyouter]

And the employer requesting transcripts or GPAs is not acting illegally or being unethical. Academic achievement is also not a protected class.

If it was illegal or unethical to deny someone employment based on their GPA, I imagine the "C=RN" crowd would be rushing to file lawsuits...

Some considerations during this discussion are;

1. In what specific light are GPA results examined when hiring a nurse- her level of physical competency vis-a-vis her academic background?

2. How can this practice be justifiable when other professions in healthcare may or may not have their GPA examined by prospective employers?

3. Academic learning is one part of nursing practice as many of us are aware. The discussion recently revolved around new graduates with advanced nursing degrees and limited nursing practice.

The results have been less than stellar.

4. GPA unfortunately does not measure cognitive thinking, motor skills and reactivity. It is a direct measurement of the sum of all academic courses which the student has successfully passed and graduated with diplomas at their institution of learning.

5. If hiring institutions insist upon nursing GPA results, does this apply across the board for all prospective newly hired workers at that institution?

If this is NOT being applied as part of that institutions`s overall hiring policy, then yes, I think the practice does display some degree of differentiation towards nursing professionals.

6 On reflection, consider the level of responsibility and knowledge required at upper management levels- are their GPA results considered or is power so concentrated at that level that objectivity and yes, ethical considerations are lost.

[dcwang]

personally i would never get my degree online. I've taken online classes before and with online classes, you lack the intensity, and discipline, and monitoring. it's a lot easier for people to get away with things. I've avoided getting an online degree because I fear employers would not approve. That being said, would you want your doctor to get an online degree? same thing with nurses. I would never go to a NP with an online degree. A person with an online NP degree has prescription power just like MD!

[edmia, BSN, RN]

personally i would never get my degree online. I've taken online classes before and with online classes, you lack the intensity, and discipline, and monitoring. it's a lot easier for people to get away with things. I've avoided getting an online degree because I fear employers would not approve. That being said, would you want your doctor to get an online degree? same thing with nurses. I would never go to a NP with an online degree. A person with an online NP degree has prescription power just like MD!

Get away with what? Most online programs have proctored examinations. And you can get your friend to write your papers for you at a brick and mortar school just as easily as an online school. That is an uneducated opinion. I don't judge my medical provider based on what university they graduate from. I judge them on interpersonal skills and knowledge that I asses when I meet them in action.

Sent from my iPhone -- blame all errors on spellcheck

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I've avoided getting an online degree because I fear employers would not approve.

As mentioned previously, employers will never know you completed your degree online if you earn it at a land-based school with a good reputation such as UCSD, UNLV, Arizona State, etc. Online nursing degrees are not marked with a notation to indicate they were earned via the distance learning delivery platform.

That being said, would you want your doctor to get an online degree? same thing with nurses.

There's no nurse in the US who received his/her entire nursing education online. The overwhelming majority of online nursing programs are designed for licensed, experienced RNs who wish to further their educational attainment.

Some people might say "You forgot about Excelsior grads!" To them I respond that Excelsior grads already bring sufficient nursing experience to the table during the years they worked as LPNs or medics. They are often more clinically competent than grads of traditional programs.

In addition, we cannot fairly compare a doctor and a nurse. Such a comparison would be akin to comparing apples and oranges. We're talking about two strikingly different professions with differing degrees of responsibility, accountability and authority.

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

Some considerations during this discussion are....

I'm not debating the merits and issues regarding hiring people using GPA as a factor. I'm just pointing out the fact that using GPA as one of the hiring criteria isn't an illegal, immoral or unethical act. It may not be personally appealing to some people, but it neither breaks the law nor breaches any ethical or moral code.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

Some considerations during this discussion are; .

Actually, that's another topic and thread altogether.

This thread focuses on whether or not consideration is given to the type of school that you graduated from and whether or not an online education is viewed as inferior.

[JoseQuinones]

Another aspect of getting a degree that too few prospective students think about is the social capital that comes with a in-presence degree. Online courses do not build the same level of connections that in-presence ones do. Even in our modern times of LinkedIn, a personal contact goes way farther than an Internet one. I think it's worth the extra effort to go to an on-site class for this reason alone. There's a reason why all the Presidents, Governors, Senators, and most of the other influential people seem to come from the same schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. It's not just the value of the knowledge, it's the people you meet. Savvy people understand that "It's not what you know, it's who you know."

Then too, a lot of the online programs have earned their bad reputation. I am finishing up my BSN at a traditional brick-and-mortar four year university. All my core nursing classes are 100% in person, for which I am grateful. Because in some of my generals classes like history and writing, some of which have been online, the students are just there to get a few credits. They cheat, share answers with one another, form copy groups, and behave with zero ethics. I have been hit up for "help" so many times it's embarrassing. Until a real way to prevent this behavior is invented (I'm sorry, Respondus Lockdown Browser simply isn't enough), it will continue.

Students who want to learn, will. Students who are ethical will study hard, whether or not the degree is online. The trouble is, you can't tell if this candidate you are looking to hire is the good kind of student or not. So naturally, you gravitate toward the student who went to a traditional classroom where the professor (presumably) was proctoring the tests. It may not be fair, but it's the reality and as a current student, I worry about some of my generals classmates. If they act like this in the real world, they are not going to last very long.

[joyouter]

Actually, that's another topic and thread altogether.

This thread focuses on whether or not consideration is given to the type of school that you graduated from and whether or not an online education is viewed as inferior.

Yes, that is likely. However, the thread of GPA arose during the discussion of the merits of online vs B&M university programmes and how it is judged and demanded by employers.To summarise-

I am in agreement with the statement that most on-line nursing programs were designed for post RN diploma nurses. In fact, many on-line nursing programs clearly state this as a pre-requisite, a concept I endorse. Thus, despite the meandering off the topic of merits earned through on-line vs BM institutions. an underlying concept remains - that of the nurse bringing her own clinical experience when considering post RN to BSN studies and the university evaluating her clinical experience, academic background and references for admission..

Thanks for pointing this out Yes, GPA could certainly become another thread for discussion.

[canwil2082]

What an interesting lively debate we have going! It is interesting to note that my writing is very poor to some individuals. I am not looking to publish in a peer-reviewed journal anytime soon. This was a simple blog article that was created to spark a healthy debate. Thank you all for such wonderful comments and strong opinions.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

I believe it is a part of the weed out process.

First it was Bsn over the Adn.

Now its online Bsn vs B and M.

Although this has not caught on everywhere,(but is happening in my area) many employers are asking for transcripts.

They are looking at GPA's.

In any event,WGU and Excelsior are popular on Allnurses, i am kind of leery.

Plus,in my area, with Rutgers,NYU, and UMD-NJ around,I am not sure they would pick an online degree over a degree from established institutions with excellent reputations.

There are other online programs provided by B&M schools that have wonderful reps that will be at the top of the list; there are MANY in your area; again, no one will be the wiser to say whether you did it online or in the classroom.