Due to a few people, including myself that thought that the hemophobic thread was homophobic and stated such...here is a homophobic thread...lets keep it nice now :).
I too (as one person stated) had a male homosexual whos partner was his MPOA. Sadly, most of the information was told to the patient and not his partner. His partner was so confused about the pts care, what the plans were, and was trying so hard to arrange after care that would fit their needs. No one really would discuss it with him, even though he proved he was a MPOA.
TILL I came along! I got everyone involved together and we discussed our short term and long term goals in a way both patient and partner could understand. There was quite a family dynamic involved with the pts family (against the pt being homosexual with a partner..they treated the partner like slime!), but the partner was the LEGAL MPOA! So I got in there and made it clear to everyone :).
It all worked out great, all sides were happy...(the patient was suicidal and depressed when he came in, so he wished to go to a psych inpatient to get better...bless his heart! He was so saddened by this family/partner fight he was just so sad looking and you can tell he just couldn't take it anymore!!!). And the MD's and RN's felt that they did actually get the info to the right persons involved and felt good about it. It was just that no one really got into that situation deep enough to figure out whom they should be talking with r/t the dynamics and fragile nature of the patients mind (we didn't want him to kill himself over his family and partner fighting!!!).
But would this have been the same if this was a married hetrosexual couple???? Would the wife or hubby automatically get the info with no question???
ALL patients should have their legal documents [MPOA, Advance Directives, etc.,] in order so we as nurses are able to provide the best possible nursing/medical care. My original post was not meant to be offensive towards you, or anyone else. You made mention of marriage regards to legality, so I thought I'd reply. Nothing more, and nothing less.
I did say I wasn't offened by your post, so need need for you to be defensive. I realize I live in a world where persons think my lifestyle goes against the natural order of things, and I greatly appreciate that no matter how you feel, you put that aside and treat your patients equally, that's good old Nursing 101 in my opinion, but isn't always manifested in the real world. Many people live lives I don't approve of, yet I care with compassion and empathy regardless.
A lot of couples, particularly young couples don't have all this legal stuff prepaired, but fortunately for them it's not always necessary because they are married, they have it automatically. As I said before when was the last time someone asked a spouse "do you have proof of power of attorney over your wife?"
Hospital admissions, particularly hospital adminission on my unit aren't always planned and thought out.
My point was simply my personal beliefs will never interfere my personal nursing philosophy, which is to provide the best possible nursing care for ALL my patient's.
BTW, I asked Merriam to explain to me what you meant by heterosexism but all I could find was the definition of sexism; discrimination based on sex. Tweety, I don't discriminate against anyone based on their gender, or sexual preference. BTW2, I guess you missed my belated happy birthday post. So, I'll post again, hope you & your's had a happy b-day celebration.
Thanks for the birthday wishes. I did read the well wishes on that thread but didn't respond to people individually.
Here's a couple of definitions of "heterosexism". People use it rather loosely and have their own definition of it. I used it mainly like the word "ethnocentrism", don't use it often, and didn't mean it in a very harsh manner.
Our admission clerk asks those questions on admit.
Most of the time people have NOT made plans.
steph
There's a difference between what I was saying and the JACHO requirement that we ask all admissions about living wills and MPOA.
If a married person has not made those plans and says "my wife makes all my decisions for me", you don't say "you're going to have to have that in writing", the law is on their side that they don't. For sure you're going to ask them "would you like to make out a Living Will and MPOA this admission." But the wife gets to be the POA without it.
If a gay man says "my life partner makes all my decisions" without it in writing legally it's his parents or adult children, or blood relative, not his life partner.
Granted making a MPOA is a rather simple procedure and responsible gay people do it ahead of time. But gay people are in just as much denial as straight people, as you said, most of the time people have not made plans.
There's a difference between what I was saying and the JACHO requirement that we ask all admissions about living wills and MPOA.
If a married person has not made those plans and says "my wife makes all my decisions for me", you don't say "you're going to have to have that in writing", the law is on their side that they don't. For sure you're going to ask them "would you like to make out a Living Will and MPOA this admission." But the wife gets to be the POA without it.
If a gay man says "my life partner makes all my decisions" before you let him over say a parent or adult child, you're going to say "I'm going to have to have that in writing".
Yes, you are right. Same things happens with "heterosexuals" who live together without the benefit of marriage.
Yes, you are right. Same things happens with "heterosexuals" who live together without the benefit of marriage.
Of course, they have the option to marry, right?
steph
True. Of course there are states that are "common law" where longtime live in lovers assume the rights of a legal spouse during times like these.
Gay people have wised up to the lessons learned in the past. Primarily during the AIDS crises of the early 80s when gay men died by the 10's of thousands, many bitter hard lessons were learned. We aren't without legal options and it's no more inconvenient to get it spelled out legally than it is for a couple to go to a courthouse and get married I suppose.
We aren't without legal options and it's no more inconvenient to get it spelled out legally than it is for a couple to go to a courthouse and get married I suppose.
I respectfully disagree.
If the option were available to me, I would have much rather had a quick drive through wedding in Vegas in a heartbeat. (Not to mention, much more fun LOL!)
It's a lot of work getting legal papers drawn up and signed in an attempt to cover all of your bases in the event that some irrational or greedy parent or other relative tries to step in.
And even these measures can and sometimes do get challenged in court by a dead or incapacitated partner's family.
Any legal measures taken by a gay couple still do not have the legal strength of an actual marriage. We're just doing the best that we can within the limits of the law.
(Post shortened for brevity.) Thanks Bruce, I just didn't want to come across as all self-righteous anger, whining and complaining. There was a time that my self-righteous anger ate me to the core. Now, as a middle aged gay man who has been out and proud since age 17, I'm trying to find my peace in a world that is sometimes hostile and disapproving, while continuing to find the good. If that makes any sense at all.
I just didn't want it to get interpreted by others as "Well gay people can just as easily have legal papers drawn up so they don't need to have marriage legalized for them" so I just wanted to clarify.
I didn't want to add any more criticism to some of the comments made here, as one particualr poster was being grilled enough IMHO, but since no one else has touched on it, I think that it's important to this discussion:
Heterosexual marriage was referred to as "legal and natural" earlier. It was pointed out that it's a "fact" that it is legal for heterosexuals to get married and not homosexuals in the vast majority of states.
Using the fact of whether or not something is currently legal as a means to justify what is ok or not ok in our society is wrong. Laws need to continually be challenged and updated with the times.
Not so long ago, up until the early 1970's in some states, interracial marriage was not considered to be "natural" and was therefore illegal.
It too, was considered by many to be going against the natural grain for a very long time.
Thanks for the birthday wishes. I did read the well wishes on that thread but didn't respond to people individually.
Here's a couple of definitions of "heterosexism". People use it rather loosely and have their own definition of it. I used it mainly like the word "ethnocentrism", don't use it often, and didn't mean it in a very harsh manner.
Tweety - I appreciate the links. I especially liked the reading on the second link which has caused me to do some thinking. The reading reconfirmed to me I'm not homophobic. Even though my personal beliefs do not advocate same-sex romantic/sexual relations I certainly hold no predjudice over such individuals. If two consenting adults treat each other w/respect, kindness, and genuine love, then what goes on behind closed doors is none of my business. Please, let us keep this discussion on the civilian side of the house. Otherwise, my military viewpoint would skew this discussion and I don't want this Thread to turn negative, again. Tweety, you've helped keep this discussion on a educational & mature level... thanks.
I hold no hatred towards anyone based on race, creed, religion, or sexual orientation. Of course, those that wish to do harm against Americans & U.S. Allies are excluded from my otherwise extensive acceptance list. Tweety, I can see your concern over Institutional homophobia, which includes the ways that governments, organizations, some religions, businesses, and other institutions discriminate against people on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity. IMHO, discrimination is just wrong regards to sexual orientation! I can also see your frustration over cultural homophobia, which refers to societal values and "norms" that privilege heterosexuality over all other forms of gender expression and sexual orientation. Maybe, just MAYBE I've been guilty of this form of heterosexism. However, ignorance can be overcome. Again, this link has helped open my mind a little bit more. IMHO, to be able to talk about sexual diversity in an open, respectful, and mature manner here on the public msg brds can make for an excellent discussion.
As a nurse, one of my first objectives is to find out to whom the immediate person [spouse, partner, family member, close friend, etc.] is I should involve in my nursing care of a particular patient. It matters not to me to whom such person is as long as the patient is in agreement. The tricky part is when the patient is on mechanical ventilator and unable to communicate in any form. BTW, I have asked in the past if the spouse has MPOA, which has gotten me some strange looks from such spouse. I always tell them my concern is in the best interest of the patient. With geriatric patients I've found a son, or daughter to have MPOA, rather than the spouse. I have taken care of patients where the same sex partner had MPOA, and fortunately the biological family members were receptive to the patient's partner.
I just didn't want it to get interpreted by others as "Well gay people can just as easily have legal papers drawn up so they don't need to have marriage legalized for them" so I just wanted to clarify.
I didn't want to add any more criticism to some of the comments made here, as one particualr poster was being grilled enough IMHO, but since no one else has touched on it, I think that it's important to this discussion:
Heterosexual marriage was referred to as "legal and natural" earlier. It was pointed out that it's a "fact" that it is legal for heterosexuals to get married and not homosexuals in the vast majority of states.
Using the fact of whether or not something is currently legal as a means to justify what is ok or not ok in our society is wrong. Laws need to continually be challenged and updated with the times.
Not so long ago, up until the early 1970's in some states, interracial marriage was not considered to be "natural" and was therefore illegal.
It too, was considered by many to be going against the natural grain for a very long time.
Bruce RN - Sir, please understand sometimes my keyboard message does not come across on the screen the same as my intentions. The fact that the legality of same-sex marriage is questioned in some States, i.e. not allowed, should not be used as a means to justify right & wrong. You posted an excellent example regards to interracial marriage of the early 70's being illegal... which was just flat wrong. BTW, my wife is Chinese-American, therefore I certainly support interracial marriage.
Laws should be put into place to protect all members of society, yet issues of morality v. legality are very gray. Tweety has brought up some very valid points regards to areas concerning legal rights for the same-sex partner of a patient. My personal beliefs regards to what is natural should not be looked upon by others as bigotry, as long as no prejudice is involved. I can say w/o a doubt I have no such prejudices against anyone based on race, creed, color, or sexual orientation. Like all good RNs, my #1 priority is to be an advocate for my patient's.
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,354 Posts
I did say I wasn't offened by your post, so need need for you to be defensive. I realize I live in a world where persons think my lifestyle goes against the natural order of things, and I greatly appreciate that no matter how you feel, you put that aside and treat your patients equally, that's good old Nursing 101 in my opinion, but isn't always manifested in the real world. Many people live lives I don't approve of, yet I care with compassion and empathy regardless.
A lot of couples, particularly young couples don't have all this legal stuff prepaired, but fortunately for them it's not always necessary because they are married, they have it automatically. As I said before when was the last time someone asked a spouse "do you have proof of power of attorney over your wife?"
Hospital admissions, particularly hospital adminission on my unit aren't always planned and thought out.