The Circumcision Discussion

babs_rn · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by zoeboboey
I think personally it's better that you wait to be circumcised til after the baby is born.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Really, I needed that laugh after this week....

kimtab · May 30, 2003

When I researched circ (after I had already had it done to my son and started wondering whther it had been wise) I decided there wouldn't be a compelling reason to do it if I had another boy and that I would be more than happy to explain to them why they were different.

My son had problems with adhesions. I had to pay meticulous attention to this area to try to keep the adhesions from forming, which they did despite my efforts, so i never really got the whole "less hygiene" argument. I finally gave up and decided the adhesions will either resolve on their own or he can have something done about it when he gets older.

Most people I know haven't had problems with it, but there is the very real risk of complications. So you have to weigh that against the increased risk for UTI and penile cancer and make your own decision. "I want him to look like everyone else" was my reasoning and it wasn't until later that I decided that not only did everyone else not look like that, but that it was a silly reason to go cutting on babies.

kimtab · May 30, 2003

http://www.aap.org/mrt/factscir.htm

Here's the AAP statement

Dayray, RN · May 31, 2003

Lol I still belive what I said before but Im also getting a kick out of some of the arguments on this board. both sides have said some pretty funny things.

anyway it is a good disscusion and at the least thought provoking.

Please join me in mourning the loss of my forskin LOL!!!

sbic56, BSN, RN · May 31, 2003

One infants' complaint after his circ:

"I couldn't walk for a year after I had mine!"

jadednurse · May 31, 2003

Originally posted by Dayray
Please join me in mourning the loss of my forskin LOL!!!

Exactly what I was wondering! Are there alot of adult "crewnecks" out there wishing were still "turtlenecks?"

On a more serious note, I don't have children yet, but this thread has brought up some very good points. The only advice I can offer is to be sure of your decision to circ...once it's done it's done.

Gator,SN · Jun 1, 2003

Are there alot of adult "crewnecks" out there wishing were still "turtlenecks?"

:rotfl:

huntsters · Jun 4, 2003

As an OB nurse, I would like to clarify something. I have watched numerous circumcisions, and the most amazing thing about the circumcision, is that by the time the Dr. is actually "cutting" the foreskin, the baby is usually quiet, unless he was just a fussy infant. The baby mostly screams when he is being strapped down (for his own protection), and the cries come when the dr places the "bell" over the member. When he tightens the clamp, most of them actually get quiet because it must become numb. Many babies actually suck their pacifier through the rest of the procedure, which is only about 2 minutes. I'm sure the rawness is painful, which is why the mothers put vaseline on the circ for about 5 days. If you let them stay wet, I'm sure that is painful, too. Quick diaper changes take care of that, and it is only for the first 2 days at most.

NOW, let's compare this to giving an "older male his choice". If you ever see an adult circumcision, you would never put him in a position to choose. The men are sore (putting it mildly) for several(low estimation) days and the complications are much higher as adults. I would never make my child have to make that decision when he is older. My son never had "psychological" problems about a diaper change other than his own modest personality which he still has. Let's get real, and think more for the child's sake in the future. There are more chances he will need to be circ'd as an adult than that he will have any complications from an infant circ. And truly, "woe" to the poor man who has to choose a circ as an adult!!!

NICU_Nurse, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2003

You have a very good point, but as a Neonatal nurse, can I also point out something? Infants who are experiencing pain or extreme discomfort (or overstimulation, etc.) will often "tune-out" the pain by either becoming lethargic or even falling asleep once the pain reaches a point they can no longer tolerate. In fact, following that line of thinking, it is possible that the precise reason that infants quiet down during the actual cutting is EXACTLY because it is so horribly painful for them, thus they shut down.

You know, I think also that we shouldn't necessarily assume that just because a parent chooses NOT to circumcize their infant means that automatically the child will have to "make" the decision when they are older. That's implying, really, that circumcision is preferred over remaining fully intact, which may not be the case. Many men are quite happy au natural, so to speak.

I don't feel that the only factor here is complications from the procedure; it's a very personal decision with many factors contributing to the decision to do or not to do.

To me, this is similar in a very distinct way to children born with hermaphroditism. For years doctors would "choose" the sex of the child based on a limited number of factors, feeling that they were justified because they were taking the responsibility of that off of the shoulders of the child (who would later grow up to become confused about their gender assignment). It was assumed by many that having to choose as an adult was undesirable, so operations were performed and great lengths were gone to to drive home the CHOSEN gender assignment. However, if you talk to those children now, as adults, many will and have said that they would have preferred the choice and felt as if the opportunity to choose were robbed from them.

Parents and doctors making significant choices for children is a frequent and sometimes unfortunate thing, but some cases necessitate such a decision (i.e, Tx for disorder or disease), and in my mind, this one does not. Especially if you speak to men who are perfectly content with their foreskins as they are. ;>)

fergus51 · Jun 4, 2003

Thank you Kristi! I recently started in an NICU and there was a doctor there who didn't want to use any pain meds on an infant getting a chest tube!!!! His reason was they usually quiet down quickly once things get started!!!! The nurse refused and went over his head to get proper analgesia for the baby thank God.

NICU_Nurse, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2003

http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm

This link has a fantastic, footnoted article about this very subject. In fact, I thought it particularly interesting that they mentioned the pacifier use- that though with a pacifier the babies cried less, the Cortisol (stress hormone) levels in their blood and their heart rates were phenomenally raised (in fact, according to the article, adults feeling the same thing would not tolerate such high levels of pain). Interesting to consider, especially since they actually tested the Cort levels afterwards, which is something we don't do on a regular basis (or ever, actually).

Fergus, I just checked my Merenstein/Gardner and they did confirm that decreased or cessation of physical activity is an indicator pain or extreme agitation/irritation, so there ya' go! :)

Always be an advocate for your babies! They can't speak; that's what *you're* there for, right? Imagine performing a surgical procedure on an adult and not giving pain medication. Would you do it? Hell no. Would they allow it? Hell no. So why is it allowable for infants? Just thoughts to chew on. ;>)

And, swinging completely off topic for a sec, Ferg, why are you not posting in the NICU forum more? Get yer butt over there and get to work!!!

Back to the regularly scheduled programming...

fergus51 · Jun 4, 2003

Definitely agree with you on that one Kristi. I think it is cruel to not treat an infant's pain for any reason and am not about to participate in any type of procedure where this is ignored. They couldn't pay me enough to do that and I switch jobs so often I'd have no trouble quitting and going elsewhere to work (thank you nursing shortage).

On that note, I will swing to the NICU forum and get to work;) (What can I say, I've been busy in the real NICU. So much to learn there!!!!!!).