Nursing Unions-what is the good,bad, ugly?

Nurses General Nursing

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anyone in a nursing union w/in your facility? what is the good, bad, ugly?

Right to work states do not have rampant firings every time there is a change in management. As far as retirement plans, I will trust my own 401K, IRA's, and investments over a union pension any day of the week. Ask American Airlines and the United Auto Workers how secure their pensions are right about now.

They did when I lived in right to work states. I used to be anti-union until I worked tons of uncompensated overtime just to be handed a lay off slip. I realized that management was going to screw me no matter how much I did for them, and no matter how hard I worked for them. That's what changed my mind about unions.

And I don't think anyone believes the healthcare industry is in the same financial shape as the airline industry. Every economist is projecting huge growth for healthcare. Besides ... since when are 401K's safe? Just ask all the people who invested their 401K's in Enron, WorldCom, etc. and lost it all.

I get both the tax sheltered retirement savings AND a pension. Thanks to my union.

Yeah ... the 401K is a nice supplement, but it's a supplement only. It doesn't come close to a defined pension benefit plan. Most company contributions under 401K plans only amount to one year's salary .... tops. It's pathetic.

I need a defined benefit pension plan ... which is a real pension that pays for the rest of my life. And I can only get those in union shops. Non-union shops are only offering 401K plans, which is nothing.

I've only been a nurse for 5 years but my base pay is almost 90k. If I took call or worked overtime, I would be making the 100-150k other RN's in my union job make. Do you think the hospital WANTS to pay me this well? All the anti-union types can laugh at my union and I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

I agree. Making $90K with a ton of overtime (i.e. in Texas) and making $90K as your base salary (in Cali) is not the same thing. It's obvious that California RN's do make more than Texas RN's because of unions.

:typing

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Our last election had a ballat that failed, but it would have required people to either give permission or not give permission to have their union dollars go to political causes. I can not believe that ballat did not pass as all it did was allow people to decide how they wanted their own money spent....still scratching my head over that one.

I voted against it because it targeted unions only. It was all part of Schwarzenegger's anti-union campaign and I thought it was unfair. If he was pushing a real political reform that also targeted corporations and the political process as a whole, then I probably would have voted for it. But he didn't touch the corporations because he gets too much money from them. He just wanted to get rid of the unions because they were fighting him.

:typing

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Right to work states do not have rampant firings every time there is a change in management. As far as retirement plans, I will trust my own 401K, IRA's, and investments over a union pension any day of the week. Ask American Airlines and the United Auto Workers how secure their pensions are right about now.

Good point but you skipped one thing. It is the employer who has reduced those pensions. And they were able to do it because of changes in the federal laws.

Grannynurse:balloons:

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I agree. Making $90K with a ton of overtime (i.e. in Texas) and making $90K as your base salary (in Cali) is not the same thing. It's obvious that California RN's do make more than Texas RN's because of unions.

:typing

However, 90 thousand in California probably doesn't mean as much as making 90 thousand in Texas. The average price of a house in the town I live in is over 600,000. It's hard to find anything under 500,000.

Cassi

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Good point but you skipped one thing. It is the employer who has reduced those pensions. And they were able to do it because of changes in the federal laws.

Grannynurse:balloons:

They have reduced those pensions because they are going bankrupt. It is either reduce the pensions or go belly-up and lose the pension completely.

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Right to work states do not have rampant firings every time there is a change in management.

I don't know about "every time" but I've seen it myself many times and it's ugly.

There is no doubt in my mind that "cleaning house" whenever somone new takes over is very common practice in TX.

I've seen nurses who, after years of working the floors and going back to school for higher degrees, get promoted to house educator, manager, supervisor, infection control, etc. and had their jobs for 10-20 years, suddenly shown the door because they suddenly didn't meet the standards of new management.

Translation: The new administrator's buddy who went to Baylor or TWU nursing school with them years back needs a job or wants a cushier job so the new boss is now creating one for them.

Several times in my life at different places I've seen the new management fire and then "bring in" new people.

It's always a coincidence that these "new people" either already worked with them at another hospital or went to school with them.

The new people are never off the street hires that had no prior connection with the new management.

That's employment at will for you.

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I don't know about "every time" but I've seen it myself many times and it's ugly.

There is no doubt in my mind that "cleaning house" whenever somone new takes over is very common practice in TX.

I've seen nurses who, after years of working the floors and going back to school for higher degrees, get promoted to house educator, manager, supervisor, infection control, etc. and had their jobs for 10-20 years, suddenly shown the door because they suddenly didn't meet the standards of new management.

Translation: The new administrator's buddy who went to Baylor or TWU nursing school with them years back needs a job or wants a cushier job so the new boss is now creating one for them.

Several times in my life at different places I've seen the new management fire and then "bring in" new people.

It's always a coincidence that these "new people" either already worked with them at another hospital or went to school with them.

The new people are never off the street hires that had no prior connection with the new management.

That's employment at will for you.

This is an excellent point. Why work your butt off someplace to try to build a decent retirement and then have the rug pulled from under you because of situations like this. Hopefully it won't happen but, obviously, it can and does happen.

To me ... any hassles with union work rules and lazy union workers pale in comparison. Besides, as your example demonstrates, management plays the same games with their favorites anyway. There are negatives with both but, at least with the union you do have some protection not only your job but, also, your benefits.

When the University of California tried to cut RN retirement benefits last summer, 9,000 RN's voted to walk off the job. UoC had to spend millions to prepare for the strike. In the end, UoC caved on the retirement cuts and the RN's got a raise. The retirement benefits are now protected by contract. You don't get that in right to work state where, you can easily end up with little or nothing.

:typing

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Even a closed shop state like CA has non-union facilities. Nurses that make unions the determining factor in job employment can find work with or with out a union. I just feel sorry for nurses that want the protection of collective bargaining but can't get it in a right to work state. And from the threads I've been reading, very few RN's are making 90k in TX.

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I don't know about "every time" but I've seen it myself many times and it's ugly.

There is no doubt in my mind that "cleaning house" whenever somone new takes over is very common practice in TX.

I've seen nurses who, after years of working the floors and going back to school for higher degrees, get promoted to house educator, manager, supervisor, infection control, etc. and had their jobs for 10-20 years, suddenly shown the door because they suddenly didn't meet the standards of new management.

Translation: The new administrator's buddy who went to Baylor or TWU nursing school with them years back needs a job or wants a cushier job so the new boss is now creating one for them.

Several times in my life at different places I've seen the new management fire and then "bring in" new people.

It's always a coincidence that these "new people" either already worked with them at another hospital or went to school with them.

The new people are never off the street hires that had no prior connection with the new management.

That's employment at will for you.

Many of these positions are salaried, and as such would not fall under collective bargaining. How many times have you seen staff nurses terminated merely because of a management change. In today's market, management would have3 to be on crack to come into a newly acqiured facility and terminate "dozens" of nurses for political reasons.

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I took some advice, and used salary.com to compare salaries in my market of Birmingham, Alabama (which is non-union) with the union areas of California. It is correct that the average starting wage for RN's is considerably higher in California, but the cost of living is much higher as well. Using a RN with less than 1 year experience; RN with 5 yrs experience; an RN with 10 yrs experience; and an RN with 15 yrs experience here is what I found:

California had an average wage of $48,500 to $107,500 depending on the area and length of experience.

Alabama had an average wage of $35,00 to $68,500 depending on area and length of experience.

Salary.com showed an average cost of living from Alabama to California to require nearly an 85% differnce in pay- which there is not. Conclusion, the Standard of Living (in California) with union representation is less than (in Alabama) without union representation.

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California had an average wage of $48,500 to $107,500 depending on the area and length of experience.

Alabama had an average wage of $35,00 to $68,500 depending on area and length of experience.

Salary.com showed an average cost of living from Alabama to California to require nearly an 85% differnce in pay

Nursing pay at my hospital STARTS at 70K! And you've got to be crazy if you think it costs 85% more to live in california. I'm willing to bet my electric bill is LOWER than yours. I know I pay less for it now than I did 20 years ago in TX. Food bills are also equal or less in CA. Half the food comes from CA afterall. A few pennies more for gas but not 85% more. I pay 800 monthly rent for a 3 bedroom flat in a nice neighborhood. Though this is low by CA average, good deals can be found. Sure houses are expensive but the nurses in my unit that own are making a fortune in equity. Being from the south, I know a lot of southerners would never enjoy CA living but don't fool yourself into thinking our quality of living is suffering from high cost.
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They have reduced those pensions because they are going bankrupt. It is either reduce the pensions or go belly-up and lose the pension completely.

It is more then just preventing the company from going bankrupt. One thing that people fail to realize and recognize, is the failure of the companies to adequately put aside the funding for their pensions. Instead they use them to pay for company growth and other things, totally different from their intended purpose. Does the company ENRON mean anything to anyone?

Grannynurse:balloons:

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