So I am a first quarter nursing student, and I was talking to some of my classmates. One mentioned how, at clinical, an older nurse kept trying to talk her out of the profession, basically trashing the field. Her opinion. So we keep talking and one of the things that came up was floor nursing. EVERY SINGLE one of them said they didn't want to work on the floor/be a floor nurse!
I was shocked. ***** Why are you even trying to be a nurse if all you want to do is go straight to grad school to become a Nurse Practitioner (Peds)???? One of these girls was the same girl who talked about other students who had to be rushed into the emergency room during clinical, saying they had no place in nursing school.
Maybe it is because I work as a "sitter"/safety care associate and am use to the "dirty working" (i.e. I had to hold a man's member in a urinary because he was in restraints last week).
Am I the only one who has a bad taste in their mouths? Many of these are little girls barely out of high school who have never worked or volunteered a day in their lives at a hospital. I would hate to have a nurse who hated her job and only did it so she could get accepted into grad school.
They will be in for a rude awakening when they realize that most *decent* grad schools aren't going to bother looking at an applicant with 0 or the bare minimum floor experience, and I hope they wouldn't look at someone who has less than two years of work experience on the floor. I see most of the nursing students who say they don't want to work on the floor leaving the profession entirely within the first five years (and I'm being generous)...what do you think?
As an old battle axe....I am disappointed that nurses don't go to school to be nurses anymore. I also believe that no matter what experience you think nursing school gives you to make you competent......I'll let you in on a little secret.....Nursing school and clinical DO NOT prepare you to be a nurse. I am dismayed at the implication that clinical in school somehow gives you the tool necessary to be all knowing and all seeing in the realm of caring for patients. NCLEX is the assumption that it makes you safe which does NOT imply you are competent.
I am saddened by the disrespect shown to floor nurses and nurses who have been practicing a long time.....experience will give you knowledge and should give respect for the knowledge achieved by a lifetime of devotion in caring for patients. I am not spitting on ambition but I for one believe that you cannot learn how to be a nurse (or nurse practitioner) on line and that a very specific bedside clinical requirement needs to be in place prior to pursuing an advance degree. I don't think 120 hours will give you the tools to be responsible or accurate in decision making when dealing with peoples lives. Medical residents spend 4 years in clinical slavery before being able to apply for and accepted for fellowships.
I believe that the sudden draw to the profession are fueled by the mistaken belief that there is a nursing shortage and a steady good paying job available. The desire for advanced degrees are also fueled by the economy and the lure of "big money" coupled with an arrogance that advanced degrees entitle one to look down upon those of a lesser degree as being beneath them....is what has fueled the issues with nursing as a profession as we speak. as much as I have LOVED my career choice.....I wen to school because I wanted to be a nurse, not a doctor, not a doctor want to be. I made a conscious decision to further my career and become a nurse.
Without nurses....patients will die. At 3 am when a patient goes south who calls you! Who knows when something isn't right.....THE NURSE! We have been the backbone of the medical profession and I find it sad that the respect for this time honored profession which is the backbone of medicine....tossed under the bus and considered a last resort. I too have been guilty of discouraging new nurses to enter the profession. The two face bureaucracy, back stabbing, mean girl mentality has taken away from the hard working educated, life saving professionals that we are......just like behind every man is a good woman......behind every advance degree is a great bedside nurse who has saved their butt a million times.
Flame on!:flmngmd: I am a bedside nurse you see...a bedside grunt is where you'll find me. I am proud to be the best I can be to intervene when you most need me. If you other any family happens to need, I'm the nurse you want in the weeds.......it has nothing to do with advanced degrees, the bedside is where they need people like me. To leap into action, to know what patients need, to guide those who haven't learned how to act when there's a need at 3am and in need it's a bedside nurse you count yourself lucky to see.......a nurse who's seen what's needed to see and can get you what you absolutely need. To hold your hand, and ease your pain. To listen when you need someone to hear...a shoulder to cry on or a hand to hold...when you're scared and lonely and are in need. It's at the bedside you'll find me.
THIS should be that so called nurses "creed" that so many seem to recite day and night.....
Interesting.. I'm a nursing student too and here in Australia you have to have 5 years experience in "floor nursing" before you can apply for a NP degree. Other students in my year have only expressed vague interest in doing this maybe in the distant future. Most who want to do post-grad immediately are ones who want to do midwifery or paeds. I guess its a newer concept here, but its definitely getting more popular the last few years. I wouldn't mind doing an NP degree someday, but for now I can't wait to graduate and do ward nursing, and most others seem to express the same sentiment. Only 1 more year till I get my RN
Interesting.. I'm a nursing student too and here in Australia you have to have 5 years experience in "floor nursing" before you can apply for a NP degree. Other students in my year have only expressed vague interest in doing this maybe in the distant future. Most who want to do post-grad immediately are ones who want to do midwifery or paeds. I guess its a newer concept here, but its definitely getting more popular the last few years. I wouldn't mind doing an NP degree someday, but for now I can't wait to graduate and do ward nursing, and most others seem to express the same sentiment. Only 1 more year till I get my RN
I'm learning that our friends "down under" have a lot of excellent policies re: nursing.
One of my favorites is that you can only take boards after completing school (obviously) , BUT one time is how many times someone has to pass it (how I understood it)....none of this taking it over and over until they somehow get through their questions.
I was shocked. ***** Why are you even trying to be a nurse if all you want to do is go straight to grad school to become a Nurse Practitioner (Peds)??
Because you can't be an NP without going to nursing school and they want to be NPs? Why does it matter that folks want to do different things with their nursing degrees?
Because you can't be an NP without going to nursing school and they want to be NPs? Why does it matter that folks want to do different things with their nursing degrees?
I'm not reading it as an issue with someone being an NP- but not having hands on experience with patients, which would likely enhance their knowledge base, no matter what they end up doing :) There isn't any experience with a book. JMO. Going on for whatever sort of NP someone wants to do is great- just good to deal with real people in the process.
You know the saying "You don't know what you don't know"? I think that folks that think that obtaining an advanced practice nursing degree without the bedside experience don't understand how valuble that experience is because they've never done bedside care. Doing bedside care in nursing school is NOTHING like working on a floor. How do you develop that "gut feeling" about a situation if you have limited experience? My gut feeling has served me well at times, therefore improving pt outcomes.
I think its amazing that you are downgrading people who are about the same age as you. You have a goal to be a NICU nurse when you are just starting your program. How does that make you any different from someone who has other goals? Whatever you think NOW this early in the program is going to change 100 times before you are finished. I personally went in thinking I wanted to work in the OR, now I have no idea. The only thing I DO know is that eventually I will go on to get my MSN (since I already have a BS in another field) so I have more job security in whatever field I decide.
SO as someone who wants to work in the NICU, are you going to berate someone that wants to be a midwife??
One thing's for sure that I can promise you, no one can say for sure WHAT they want to do until they have experience doing it. I just ran into a nurse who had been working in the ICU so she could get into a CRNA program. Guess what, after being halfway through the CRNA program, she likes the ICU better and decided not to continue. Concerning yourself with the other students goals is completely judgemental and pointless. What's going to burn your butt later is seeing students that don't work as hard as you in the program get away with murder. And you know what, THATS still NOT YOUR concern. The only thing you should be concerned with is yourself and your goals. If the students you speak of don't treat patients properly because they don't want to be on the floor, then they won't make it through the program. Thats what clinical is for.
I had an instructor in nursing school who had limited floor experience. She was always disappearing to go 'confer' with other instructors. And she repeated word for word what was in our textbooks. A waste of time to get advanced degrees if there is no practical experience involved.
Specializes in Infectious Disease, Neuro, Research.
Some interesting responses.
I have a few observations. One thing, and one thing only, brings competence in practice (i.e., instilling the heuristic pathways)- that is "practice".
Prestigious grad schools and universities have direct AP pathways. Of course they do. They are in business. Without students and tuition, they are not in business. I've spent all but 1 year of the past 20 working in University-affilliated teaching hospitals. It cannot be legitimately argued that schools, of any level, are interested in high-level care delivery. They are interested in new and re-newed admissions. Hospitals are interested in cheap, renewable labor. It is in the economic best interests of schools and hospitals to promoted AP programs, as med-school applicants and grads continue to decline.
I've made the statement before, prior to 1980, or so, the MBA was a significant achievement in business. With declining admissions, schools relaxed practical standards, and increased the expectation of theoretical production, i.e., it did not matter if your Masters thesis was sound, only that it was, "viable within one of the current schools of economic philosophy"(no, Marxism does not, in fact, "work"). Ergo, while there are indeed some talented MBAs, many more are simply Masturbating Bullstuff Artists. We are seeing the same progression (regression?) in nursing, as a theoretical framework is being built that is completely divorced from primary care- which, I believe, was supposed to be the focus of nursing.
PB is spot-on. Too many students(particularly in Nursing) believe it is a reasonable expectation to step out of school into $60K+ positions, with nothing more than perhaps 500-1000 hours of actual, independant care-delivery. This is an expectation, and, IME, a significant factor in less than interested care-delivery on the part of both "new" and "senior" staff. Too many are "too good" for the positions they hold.
I work among University Nsg students every day. I have some practical basis for my position, on a fairly large scale.
Edit: because offense is generally (tho' not always) a matter of choice, I will add: if you have a strong work ethic, and if you "do the work", the above does not apply to you.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Interesting.. I'm a nursing student too and here in Australia you have to have 5 years experience in "floor nursing" before you can apply for a NP degree. Other students in my year have only expressed vague interest in doing this maybe in the distant future. Most who want to do post-grad immediately are ones who want to do midwifery or paeds. I guess its a newer concept here, but its definitely getting more popular the last few years. I wouldn't mind doing an NP degree someday, but for now I can't wait to graduate and do ward nursing, and most others seem to express the same sentiment. Only 1 more year till I get my RN
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I too have learned that the school requirements and practicum is very different and intense when compared to the US schools of today.....the nursing school of today (most of them) clinical time is minimal at best or on-line. There are "online" nursing schools and NP schools that baffle my brain as I just don't understand how one can become a nurse....."ONLINE", that coupled with the sense of entitlement and arrogance that sadden and frustrate me. The repetitive taking of the boards that contains only a handful of questions, over and over again until you become so familiar with the questions that you are bound to eventually pass doesn't encourage me at the health of the profession and it's future and the expertise of it's licensed staff.:grn:
I have no objection with an ambitious career path and goals for an advanced degree. I have seen some new students and watched their trajectory with admiration at their single mindedness, dedication, drive and thirst for knowledge and experience. They consume knowledge and experience with a ravenous appetite and unending hunger. I admire this and encourgage their endevours. I do however object the attitude of "using" nursing as a "stepping stone" to the "real money" and to "get away" for the lowly mundane position of bedside nurse because, they didn't go to school to be a nurse, well not "that kind of nurse" anyways....
Allow me to reorient you a bit OP.. I was accepted to Columbia University in NYC with absolutely zero experience into their FNP program. I was talking to the DEAN of their FNP program and she completely advocates people going straight to NP. In case you did not know, Columbia is fairly famous as far as nursing goes, not exactly a fly by night joint......just sayin
Im Columbia grad CRNA from the 80s forced to work with their grad students now. Shame on Columbia for allowing students into grad programs with no experience. Cheapens the degree. A Columbia grad degree means NOTHING except that they took your money.
Im Columbia grad CRNA from the 80s forced to work with their grad students now. Shame on Columbia for allowing students into grad programs with no experience. Cheapens the degree. A Columbia grad degree means NOTHING except that they took your money.
I tend to agree, I left the program after the first week d/t cancer, but the truth is, I would have probably left anyway.....1500 dollars per credit hour
xtxrn, ASN, RN
4,267 Posts
THIS should be that so called nurses "creed" that so many seem to recite day and night.....