Nursing student taking drugs

inland18mempire · Jan 17, 2009

it's none of your business. i'm not even sure why marijuana is illegal and alcohol isn't. people get drunk as a skunk, and i've seen some on MJ just mellow out and relax.

anyway, back to your post. nursing students will be doing nothing on their own anyway. now if they were a nurse, then that would be a different story.

RedCell · Jan 17, 2009

What would you do if you found out that a fellow nursing student is smoking marijuana?

If it was a dude, I would make fun of them and suggest that they are paying too much for birth control:nurse:

Even though I am a firm believer from past experience that mary jane makes you retarded, if they are not high at work it shouldn't be a problem. I have heard that is not in agreement with the current nursing school marching orders, but who cares.

OC85 · Jan 17, 2009

However, on the flip side, getting a population to study the effects of MJ is difficult.
MJ, like so many other drugs that are sold illegally in the USA, is usually not "pure"...dealers like to make various potions to soak the leaves in, dry them out again, to enhance the effect so people will buy from them.
The reason there is a lack of research, is because with regards to, for example, MJ during pregnancy, it's rare that you find a pregnant woman who is using MJ and ONLY MJ and not abusing other drugs, and the MJ she may be using may not even be pure...you can't get approval for a drug study in this country, experimentally, on pregnant women where the researcher would PROVIDE the drug...you can only do the study after-the-fact and they may or may not be telling you the truth.
You can't study it on teens, for the same reason.

Ha! I love how we're pretending that America is the only country capable of doing credible research....

There are so many things wrong with this post, its not even funny. First of all, most marijuana sold in the USA is "pure", as you call it...we're not talking about coke or meth here. I'm not saying it doesn't happen sometimes, but it's definitely not the norm. If a dealer soaked his bud in something, that would cause people NOT to buy it. There are many different strains of marijuana that have been developed over the years through selective breeding, and they have a range of different potencies and subjective effects. Dealers don't get more business by adulterating their stock, then get people to buy by getting "good $#!@". Second, no one mentioned anything about pregnant women. We know for a fact that nicotine and alcohol have teratogenic effects, but that doesn't mean we should outlaw them. Its common sense that you should stay away from most anything that puts your body chemistry into an altered state when you're pregnant. Third, the idea that is rare to find someone who only smokes MJ and doesn't use any other drugs is simply ludicrous. I know a lot of people like to say that marijuana is a "gateway drug" but this is simply not true. The main evidence people offer up for the gateway drug theory is that something like 9 out of 10 people who use hard drugs tried marijuana first. This doesn't even mean they used MJ regularly before moving to hard drugs. It simply means that they at least smoked it once [as more than 40% of high school seniors have]. Furthermore, I would like to think that educated people such as nurses understand that correlation does not establish causality. If 9 out of 10 hard drug users tried MJ first, then I guarantee you that 99 out of 100 drank alcohol before their first line of coke or injection of heroin. Does that mean drinking alcohol causes hard drug use?

The fact is, there have been vast amounts of solid, credible research done over the years, both domestically and abroad, government funded, and private, and they all say the same thing. The negative effects of both short and long term use are no worse than alcohol, and it is no worse for society. Every single legitimate study ever done will tell you that marijuana is by far the safest drug you could possibly use [this includes alcohol and nicotine], and that is a fact. [i think the fact that there is no known lethal dose should probably tell you something].

Again, I'm just saying, you should get your facts straight.

ETA:

[This isn't meant as a personal attack in any way. Sorry if you took it that way.]

truern · Jan 17, 2009

the idea that is rare to find someone who only smokes MJ and doesn't use any other drugs is simply ludicrous. I know a lot of people like to say that marijuana is a "gateway drug" but this is simply not true.

:smokin:

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Jan 17, 2009

Ha! I love how we're pretending that America is the only country capable of doing credible research....
There are so many things wrong with this post, its not even funny. First of all, most marijuana sold in the USA is "pure", as you call it...we're not talking about coke or meth here. I'm not saying it doesn't happen sometimes, but it's definitely not the norm. If a dealer soaked his bud in something, that would cause people NOT to buy it. There are many different strains of marijuana that have been developed over the years through selective breeding, and they have a range of different potencies and subjective effects. Dealers don't get more business by adulterating their stock, then get people to buy by getting "good $#!@". Second, no one mentioned anything about pregnant women. We know for a fact that nicotine and alcohol have teratogenic effects, but that doesn't mean we should outlaw them. Its common sense that you should stay away from most anything that puts your body chemistry into an altered state when you're pregnant. Third, the idea that is rare to find someone who only smokes MJ and doesn't use any other drugs is simply ludicrous. I know a lot of people like to say that marijuana is a "gateway drug" but this is simply not true. The main evidence people offer up for the gateway drug theory is that something like 9 out of 10 people who use hard drugs tried marijuana first. This doesn't even mean they used MJ regularly before moving to hard drugs. It simply means that they at least smoked it once [as more than 40% of high school seniors have]. Furthermore, I would like to think that educated people such as nurses understand that correlation does not establish causality. If 9 out of 10 hard drug users tried MJ first, then I guarantee you that 99 out of 100 drank alcohol before their first line of coke or injection of heroin. Does that mean drinking alcohol causes hard drug use?
The fact is, there have been vast amounts of solid, credible research done over the years, both domestically and abroad, government funded, and private, and they all say the same thing. The negative effects of both short and long term use are no worse than alcohol, and it is no worse for society. Every single legitimate study ever done will tell you that marijuana is by far the safest drug you could possibly use [this includes alcohol and nicotine], and that is a fact. [i think the fact that there is no known lethal dose should probably tell you something].
Again, I'm just saying, you should get your facts straight.
ETA:
[This isn't meant as a personal attack in any way. Sorry if you took it that way.]

My facts are straight...the problem is, yours is not.

I have done many research papers on MJ and I live in an area that is considered one of the MJ "hot spots" in the USA. Major drug busts here don't even make the news because they are so common.

MOST MJ in this country that is sold is NOT pure...you have no idea of what is in any illegal drug, no matter what it is or where you buy it..I sure hope you are not on the misguided impression that cocaine and the like are the only enhanced illegal drugs sold in this country. Do you really think that drug dealers say, "Oh yeah, by the way, I soaked the leaves!"....nope, just like the local cocaine dealer isn't going to tell you that he cut his with cornstarch, orificenic, and God knows what else.

...and you need to do some MAJOR research on where most of the drug research, with both illegal and from pharmaceutical companies, comes from.

Didn't you learn that in first-year nursing?

I'm not even going to debate this subject with you...b/c THAT is how far off base you are...and the fact that you clearly are not reading my posts completely.

I never, EVER stated that "America is the only country that is capable of doing research"...I also never said that the only pharmaceutical research was performed by OVERSEAS COMPANIES.

You are a student..think about it...it's common sense...when you do not have the FDA to deal with, if you are an American-based pharmaceutical company and have a choice to do research on a new drug PHYSICALLY in the USA (which is disclosure hell and very expensive) or to do it in a foreign country (cheap, very little to no disclosure and no FDA), to where after you work out the "kinks" and kill a few people, you can take the perfected version and THEN test it here under FDA control... (b/c now you have more human research than what you did before)...then that is what you are going to do.

THAT is how most of the drug research is done....go ask your instructor, you'll find out it's true.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Jan 17, 2009

Here is a source of an article (with further footnotes), specifically citing why MJ during pregnancy is so difficult to study..and states that finding women that are pregnant and ONLY doing MJ and no other drugs is difficult.

http://www.otispregnancy.org/pdf/marijuana.pdf

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Jan 17, 2009

Here is another one on breastfeeding and lactation.

It states that "very little is known" of the effects (especially long term) because of lack of studies.

You are not going to find a population of women, in a controlled study, where the FDA (or in most other countries) are going to permit you to do a study where women knowingly smoke MJ during lactation.

Here is the USA, you would have to call social services to stop it. In other countries, it's also going to be difficult and it would be very unethical for a researcher to do such a study. That is why so little is known about it...it's NOT that there isn't a risk...there is a huge difference.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1472960

In the hospital where I work, as a student, if you have a drug test to come back positive for MJ, you are not permitted to breast feed your child at the hospital.

I have heard one Pediatrician stated that post-mortum examinations on the effects of MJ in infants and young children....that the effects of MJ can be evidenced for years...even after MJ use stops.

OC85 · Jan 18, 2009

My facts are straight...the problem is, yours is not.
I have done many research papers on MJ and I live in an area that is considered one of the MJ "hot spots" in the USA. Major drug busts here don't even make the news because they are so common.
MOST MJ in this country that is sold is NOT pure...you have no idea of what is in any illegal drug, no matter what it is or where you buy it..I sure hope you are not on the misguided impression that cocaine and the like are the only enhanced illegal drugs sold in this country. Do you really think that drug dealers say, "Oh yeah, by the way, I soaked the leaves!"....nope, just like the local cocaine dealer isn't going to tell you that he cut his with cornstarch, orificenic, and God knows what else.
...and you need to do some MAJOR research on where most of the drug research, with both illegal and from pharmaceutical companies, comes from.
Didn't you learn that in first-year nursing?
I'm not even going to debate this subject with you...b/c THAT is how far off base you are...and the fact that you clearly are not reading my posts completely.
I never, EVER stated that "America is the only country that is capable of doing research"...I also never said that the only pharmaceutical research was performed by OVERSEAS COMPANIES.
You are a student..think about it...it's common sense...when you do not have the FDA to deal with, if you are an American-based pharmaceutical company and have a choice to do research on a new drug PHYSICALLY in the USA (which is disclosure hell and very expensive) or to do it in a foreign country (cheap, very little to no disclosure and no FDA), to where after you work out the "kinks" and kill a few people, you can take the perfected version and THEN test it here under FDA control... (b/c now you have more human research than what you did before)...then that is what you are going to do.
THAT is how most of the drug research is done....go ask your instructor, you'll find out it's true.

I think you're just way off on another tangent, more than anything. We were just talking about general studies done on marijuana. No one mentioned anything about official FDA trials. I know how those work, and I was talking about academic research, which absolutely backs up what I'm saying. And, again, no one is talking about pregnant women.

I never said cocaine was the only enhanced drug, I'm just saying that it is not so much of a problem that you cant find research subjects exposed to only marijuana. Also, even if it WAS a problem, research done in Amsterdam yields the same results. Marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol, and there is no credible research that has concluded that MJ's illegal status is justified. [ETA: just so you don't go off about pregnant women again, I'm talking about studies on adults who are not pregnant.]

[Also, I think it is you who are not reading my posts, as I was clearly not arguing your point about the difficulty of studying pregnant women. Instead, I made it clear that there is no need to study the effects on pregnant women. Who says you need to do full FDA trials for medicinal MJ? It is already being prescribed in California and elsewhere. It doesn't matter what the pharmaceutical companies have to go through, since half the point of legalizing medicinal MJ is to cut them out of the game, and go with a natural remedy.]

OC85 · Jan 18, 2009

Here is a source of an article (with further footnotes), specifically citing why MJ during pregnancy is so difficult to study..and states that finding women that are pregnant and ONLY doing MJ and no other drugs is difficult.
http://www.otispregnancy.org/pdf/marijuana.pdf

Again, nodoby was talking about that, and nobody cares. Even if MJ has a teratogenic effect [which it probably does], this is irrelevant to legalization, as alcohol and nicotine also preduce birth defects.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Jan 18, 2009

Again, nodoby was talking about that, and nobody cares. Even if MJ has a teratogenic effect [which it probably does], this is irrelevant to legalization, as alcohol and nicotine also preduce birth defects.

I'm not "off on a tangent"...I'm just posting sources to back up what I am saying b/c you said that "finding subjects" wasn't a problem...and I posted information to the contrary. MJ isn't the only drug that they use in Amsterdam...and there have been recent reports that it's getting ready to become illegal there b/c Amsterdam doesn't want to be known any longer for being the place to go to if you want to do MJ and other drugs that are legal there, but illegal here.

I never stated, in a single one of my posts, that MJ should be kept illegal...I believe it should be legalized, but regulated. The problem is if they legalize it, the darn stuff is so easy to grow and in such massive amounts that it would be very difficult to control the supply of it...which would mean no profits for the drug companies who could have MJ farms or the gov't who would try to tax it.

I personally think that alcohol and nicotine is WORSE than MJ...however, there ARE credible studies that MJ is damaging.

All you have to do is to the American Medical Association or the Pediatric Association, do a search for MJ, and there will be more professional research articles that you can ever read in a week on what different studies have revealed.

OC85 · Jan 18, 2009

I'm not "off on a tangent"...I'm just posting sources to back up what I am saying b/c you said that "finding subjects" wasn't a problem...and I posted information to the contrary. MJ isn't the only drug that they use in Amsterdam...and there have been recent reports that it's getting ready to become illegal there b/c Amsterdam doesn't want to be known any longer for being the place to go to if you want to do MJ and other drugs that are legal there, but illegal here.
I never stated, in a single one of my posts, that MJ should be kept illegal...I believe it should be legalized, but regulated. The problem is if they legalize it, the darn stuff is so easy to grow and in such massive amounts that it would be very difficult to control the supply of it...which would mean no profits for the drug companies who could have MJ farms or the gov't who would try to tax it.
I personally think that alcohol and nicotine is WORSE than MJ...however, there ARE credible studies that MJ is damaging.
All you have to do is to the American Medical Association or the Pediatric Association, do a search for MJ, and there will be more professional research articles that you can ever read in a week on what different studies have revealed.

Perhaps we aren't really disagreeing, then.

As for drug companies controlling the supply, I don't think thats relevant, as I don't believe that drug companies should have a corner on the market. In my opinion, that is part of the problem. The current system has become more about ensuring the profits of pharmaceutical corporations than delivering relief to patients. Part of the beauty of MJ is that it can be produced cheaply by anyone with a growers license [a good friend of mine happens to have one]. For that matter, patients would easily be able to grow their own supply, if they wanted to. Imagine having a drug that delivers better results than current opioid pain relievers, that users do not develop a tolerance for, that has no known lethal or toxic dose, that patients could grow themselves. [Good quality MJ can be grown for about $300/kilo, including electricity to power the necessary lighting, fertilizer, everything.] This is what pharmaceutical companies are most afraid of, and the reason why they lobby so strongly to keep MJ illegal. However, I really do believe that the legalization of MJ [including recreational] would still go a long way toward solving our budget problems. If you could produce it for about $0.30/gram [which is easily doable], you could impose a $3 tax on a pack of 10 pre-rolled joints, and still sell it for about $10. Even if people could grow their own, most wouldn't bother, with retail prices like that.

I want to make my point about the dangers of MJ clear. I do not claim that it is not damaging. Chronic use leads to damage to the brain, lungs [chronic irritation, but not cancer], liver, cardiovascular system, etc. However, alcohol also causes these same problems [worse, in many cases]. All I'm saying, is that MJ is no more damaging that alcohol. [On this point, we are in agreement.]

Interestingly enough, MJ is NOT legal in Amsterdam. Law enforcement simply turns a blind eye to legitimate businesses who sell in "coffee shops". The reasoning is, this way they know who is selling, and can largely remove the criminal element, while providing a relatively safe environment for consumers. I think there is a strong logic to this approach.

Finally, I never said that MJ is the only drug used in Amsterdam. My only point is that if you remove the fear of criminal prosecution, it is relatively easy to find people for study who use MJ, but do not take any other drugs.

[Also, I as not saying that it would not be difficult to find pregnant women for research study who only use MJ. I was saying that it is not necessary to study pregnant women. There are many substances including prescription, over the counter, and everyday chemicals such as caffeine that pregnant women should avoid. It is common sense that they should not smoke MJ, as well. I was simply saying that it is not terribly difficult to find adult research subjects [who are not pregnant] that use MJ only.]

CinnScorpStudent · Jan 18, 2009

This thread has been enlightening and charged on both ends of the spectrum, but to tell you quite honestly, as a "on the wait list" for clinicals student, it really just makes me wanna get high again before I enter the realm of spy vs. spy .... isn't there somewhere in the program where they teach things such as this link : http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/MOM-mechoulam.php

Where they discuss how the human brain has it's own set-up of cannabinoid based substances much like the endorphines, yes OMG ! we make our own morphine too ! type of transmitters/receptors? Even DMT (N,N Dimethyltriptomine) is produced by our brains when we sleep (Dr. Rick Strassman, "DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor's Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences" 2000) which is considered by the DEA....the most potent hallucinogen known to man....hmmm, OK, it's what gives my dreams that edge I seek when I sleep....guess I should be "busted" or kicked out of my program as well for being human? I am, by all neurochemical processes producing this very illegal drug everytime I sleep...

I think nurses in general need to just chill out, relax a bit and realize that some of the drugs that LEGIT docs pump into the bloodstreams of thousands of people everyday are FAR more harmful than some student nurse smoking a joint of MJ....the PROOF is in your own texts, can this be any clearer?

The modern day witch hunt is the "outing" of the ones that don't conform to the cultural norms and that's all that is needed to quell the pros and cons of this debate. Those who dare to step outside the cultural "norm" are "criminals" yet those who engage in a script of doc prescribed drugs are somehow AOK with the crew....this logic escapes me. Doesn't anyone realize the anesthetists were self-drugging fly boys of their day? They literally put their lives on the line with unknown substances to further your education but somehow people feel threatened by some student nurse smoking a joint which illegal or legal YOU know (or should know) from your studies is simply a political move by those that haven't the slightest clue or respect for science and the truths that it bestows. As an average, I see more people concerned with others smoking pot than I do see their concern that our countries possess nuclear weapons! What value system are you on? Caring? or towing the party political line that has lead us into a world of violence and carnage that can only be masked by the efforts of those of us that wish to heal?

Fact is, there's a time and place for such things...on the job, no, same goes for alcohol and driving, flying a plane while intoxicated (I know some pilots and trust me, you don't want to know) and many other examples we all could throw out to the crowd. At some stages of culture our values and norms get out of whack, the laws on MJ are just that....out of whack, considering what's promoted during prime time advertising by pharma....btw, those aren't the SIDE EFFECTS..........those are the EFFECTS, the treatment is the only "side effect" of a majority of those meds...this is why they sell them to the American public next to the toilet paper ads on TV. One is creating while the other is wiping up the mess of legit drug dealers. I heard one ad the other day I could swear was an SNL skit making fun of the company, but no, sadly, it was a real commercial.