So as a third semester nursing student, myself and many of my fellow colleagues often wonder the same thing. Why is it that when we go to clinical, about 75% of the nurses act snobby and like it's some huge ordeal that we are there in "their space"? They were all nursing students at some point as well, students who wanted to learn skills and gain experience while at their clinicals. I often dread clinical due to feeling as I am in the way or that I am annoying a "seasoned" nurse. One would think, that as a nurse you'd want future nurses to gain as much experience and knowledge as they can while they're in school. So the point of this post, I would like to and I'm sure many other nursing students would like to know; why is it necessary to be rude and someone who doesn't want to help students learn or why is it necessary to not explain stuff to the student when they ask? I'm not trying to be conniving, I honestly just want to know, so that maybe I can understand.
P.S. I'm not saying this is true for ALL nurse's, as there are some that are amazing and share their knowledge and expertise.
Specializes in Oncology, Rehab, Public Health, Med Surg.
Is it necessary to be so scathing? And to answer your question "You truly think that you know better than this pt's nurse where her attention should be?", no I don't. But to assume I'm not looking at the whole picture and to think I'm only worried about that one finding is inaccurate. I looked at the "whole picture" and talked about it with my peers before I even told the nurse. So please, continue to belittle me for my "book experience", since that's the only experience I have after all, and because you know my experience.
I know what you're saying about your experience-- you are a student nurse that says your observations "should have grabbed her attention". As if you know where her attention should be. Her attention was most likely where it should have been-- with her patient.
Book knowledge is good but it doesnt trump the pt's nurses' both book knowledge and working knowledge.
I didnt belittle your book knowledge-- i held up a mirror for you to see how you were presenting yourself.
So as a third semester nursing student, myself and many of my fellow colleagues often wonder the same thing. Why is it that when we go to clinical, about 75% of the nurses act snobby and like it's some huge ordeal that we are there in "their space"? They were all nursing students at some point as well, students who wanted to learn skills and gain experience while at their clinicals. I often dread clinical due to feeling as I am in the way or that I am annoying a "seasoned" nurse. One would think, that as a nurse you'd want future nurses to gain as much experience and knowledge as they can while they're in school. So the point of this post, I would like to and I'm sure many other nursing students would like to know; why is it necessary to be rude and someone who doesn't want to help students learn or why is it necessary to not explain stuff to the student when they ask? I'm not trying to be conniving, I honestly just want to know, so that maybe I can understand.
P.S. I'm not saying this is true for ALL nurse's, as there are some that are amazing and share their knowledge and expertise.
Thank you.
Perhaps because you ARE in the nurses' space and in their way? Once you are working as a nurse, you will see that students are a burden. They create extra work (unpaid, I might add), they hog your limited computers and they get in the way. They are not nearly as helpful as they think they are.
I do not work as a staff nurse any more. But I am on site 40 hrs a week at a hospital that has many nursing students rotating through. I do not have a home at this hospital, I cover the entire hospital. When students are around, it is infinitely harder to find an open computer that I need to get the information needed to do my job and get patients safely discharged. Today, I literally saw a group of students hogging an entire work-station of three computers. Not one of them was logged on to a computer. They were just sitting there talking. In the way.
Nursing students see a fraction of what the nurse sees. And in most rotations, they don't see the nurse's entire assignment. The nurse's other patient could be circling the drain so while she's trying to get him to the ICU, the cath lab, the OR, she doesn't have time to address the nursing student's concern that her other patient has a "fever" of 99.9 and help her understand why the computer won't let her chart that. 99.9 is not a fever and we chart temperatures in Celsius here, who told you to change the thermometer to Fahrenheit? I've seen things like that actually happen.
I find it amazing you've never seen or heard a nurse being mean or patronizing to a student. You must work on a great unit with some incredible people.
I, on the other hand, have seen it far too often, and strongly agree with the original poster. My classmates and I are frequently shocked at just how dismissive and rude some senior nurses can be. And it's a teaching hospital! So I say, if they don't care for the concept of training/mentoring/guiding the next generation of nurses, they shouldn't be working at a teaching hospital!!
Fortunately, I've also been blessed with working with some amazing nurses during clinicals that have been so gracious, helpful, encouraging, and even thankful for the help. (And I've also noticed that these are the nurses that are most helpful to their co-workers, have the best bedside manner and are true advocates for their patients, versus just being there for the paycheck.) They are the type of nurse I aspire to be!
I think many who have replied to the original poster have a Much more derogatory tone than she did. She asked a very fair and legitimate question, in my opinion.
My classmates and I are frequently shocked at just how dismissive and rude some senior nurses can be. And it's a teaching hospital! So I say, if they don't care for the concept of training/mentoring/guiding the next generation of nurses, they shouldn't be working at a teaching hospital!!
Just to clarify, a "teaching hospital" refers to being a primary site for a medical school; it does not necessarily mean that it has anything to do with the education of nursing students.
I have never personally seen students treated badly, but I have worked with awesome peeps in my various ERs and we are usually asked if we want students; I believe that makes all the difference. I am sorry you have had a poor experience, but glad you have had good experiences too. Just the way the world works, I think. Can't recognize the good without seeing the bad.
Specializes in Flight Nursing, Emergency, Forensics, SANE, Trauma.
I find it amazing you've never seen or heard a nurse being mean or patronizing to a student. You must work on a great unit with some incredible people.
I, on the other hand, have seen it far too often, and strongly agree with the original poster. My classmates and I are frequently shocked at just how dismissive and rude some senior nurses can be. And it's a teaching hospital! So I say, if they don't care for the concept of training/mentoring/guiding the next generation of nurses, they shouldn't be working at a teaching hospital!!
Fortunately, I've also been blessed with working with some amazing nurses during clinicals that have been so gracious, helpful, encouraging, and even thankful for the help. (And I've also noticed that these are the nurses that are most helpful to their co-workers, have the best bedside manner and are true advocates for their patients, versus just being there for the paycheck.) They are the type of nurse I aspire to be!
I think many who have replied to the original poster have a Much more derogatory tone than she did. She asked a very fair and legitimate question, in my opinion.
I don't remember anyone saying that nurses aren't always nice to students. Again, I feel like this is another student post by a student who hasn't seen enough to actually know why some nurses are that way.
We don't walk into work with the intention of hurting students' feelings. But students have to realize it's not about them and their feelings. You're allowed to have feelings but you can only have hurt what you let get hurt.
And teaching hospitals don't mean nurses-- it means doctors typically. Many non-teaching hospitals have nursing students without residents or Med students.
And many of us got a little snappy with OP because of a comment he had chosen to delete in his first post which had something along these lines:
OP deleted an inflammatory sentence along the lines of "the nurse doesn't want to take student because she's either incompetent or she's afraid the student will know more than her". But seeing OP is willing to amend it, we're cool after that.
which in itself is DEROGATORY. And OP continues to play the victim card without listening to the seniors saying that it's not that they want to be mean but they have other priorities than certain findings or a student's hurt feelings.
You guys will appreciate this more when you go out on your own.
I notice that you also completely neglected to acknowledge that part about clinical instructors either not doing the job that they were specifically hired to do, or not being able to do the job they are hired to because the school likes taking tuition but doesn't want to give the students what they have paid for.
My clinical instructor would have been appalled to hear that we students expected the staff nurses to be our teachers. She wanted us to be as unobtrusive as possible. ALL questions were to be directed to her unless the dialogue was initiated by the staff nurse. And the student with the snarky "How about a decent report" or whatever would have found herself explaining those actions to the dean.
I was chuckling when I read this. I know exactly what you mean. When an educator/clinical instructor shows up on the floor, it may not be on your radar as a nurse. It's not like they announce to all the nurses who will be teaching and when so you know what to expect. Also, they don't really ever introduce nurses to students so nurses on the floor have no actual "ownership" of the process that is happening in your education.
They don't? When I've taught clinicals over the years, I've always taken the students around after report and (quickly) introduced myself and the student to the nurses of the client(s) to whom the student is assigned, and explained to the nurses what the student will and won't be doing and what the expectations of the student are, and the nurses should let me know at any time if they have any question or concerns about the students. And I've never dumped students on the staff nurses and expected the staff nurses to do any of the teaching, which was my job.
I must say, nursing education is really going to he!! in a handbasket ... I don't know why hospitals allow schools to get away with this crap.
Not to open up another topic - but when nursing education was based in hospital schools ("diploma" programs) the nursing students were more "integrated" and more part of the hospital. With the academic model, students are not perceived as "part of the team" and there does not seem to be a collective responsibility for students as students pay to get educated - thus nursing school is responsible.
Having said that, I still think that we need to treat students kindly and make sure they feel welcome. It is the right thing to do. Students come eager to learn (in most cases), they are not aware of the realities of nursing and how little time nurses really have.
Not to open up another topic - but when nursing education was based in hospital schools ("diploma" programs) the nursing students were more "integrated" and more part of the hospital. With the academic model, students are not perceived as "part of the team" and there does not seem to be a collective responsibility for students as students pay to get educated - thus nursing school is responsible.
Having said that, I still think that we need to treat students kindly and make sure they feel welcome. It is the right thing to do. Students come eager to learn (in most cases), they are not aware of the realities of nursing and how little time nurses really have.
I attended a hospital-based diploma school. All the hospital physicians and staff were pleasant and supportive of us (it was like we were the hospital's "children" :)), but, at the same time, our clinical instruction and supervision was provided by our clinical instructors, and the staff were never expected to take time to teach us or take any kind of responsibility for us in clinical. They were well aware that they weren't allowed to supervise us doing any kind of invasive procedure -- if we were supposed to be supervised/observed, that had to be our CI. From my experiences as a student and, more recently, as a clinical instructor, I think that kind of approach makes it a lot easier for the staff nurses to be pleasant and positive about having students around.
I attended a hospital-based diploma school. All the hospital physicians and staff were pleasant and supportive of us (it was like we were the hospital's "children" :)), but, at the same time, our clinical instruction and supervision was provided by our clinical instructors, and the staff were never expected to take time to teach us or take any kind of responsibility for us in clinical. They were well aware that they weren't allowed to supervise us doing any kind of invasive procedure -- if we were supposed to be supervised/observed, that had to be our CI. From my experiences as a student and, more recently, as a clinical instructor, I think that kind of approach makes it a lot easier for the staff nurses to be pleasant and positive about having students around.
I feel bad for the students to be honest. They are usually young, optimistic, and want to "care" for patients. Reality is hard. Nursing school is tough, clinicals are tough, and once you finally graduate and find a job (if you do find one..) it is a crying game for the first year.
I remember all too well how I was treated as a nursing student 20+ years ago. I remember the negative attitude of some of the nurses very vividly, however, I also remember the great nurses too. The commonse lessons they taught me and the advice they shared has been invaluable. I promised myself then that I would always treat nursing students the way I would have liked to be treated. Some advice to current students: put down your phone, homework, books, etc. Don't sit down and wait for someone to ask you if you want to observe and/or help out with a patient (I'm currently in a procedure area that doesn't allow nursing students to give direct patient care). Be assertive, ask questions; our nurses and MDs are happy to teach you, but we're too busy to look for you.
All I can suggest is you and your peers give honest reviews about the clinical site and take it up with your school. Maybe they need to find new places to rotate. I am just finishing up my first year as a nurse so clinicals are still relatively fresh in my mind. Yes, I had bad nurses I was assigned to, but my ratio was more like 80% good to 20% bad.
As as nurse, even though technically not suppose to, my manager has given me four different new hires to teach our charting system. They all came in with different levels of familiarity with bedside hospital care. Everyone but one significantly delayed my day. Heck, even as a CNA when it was more about training tasks and not charting, it totally held me up to have a student or a new hire.
I am very pro teaching (students do have to learn) and pretty good at it but I understand why nurses don't like it.
One thing I can suggest is analyze what you are doing yourself. As a student, if I wasn't being shown something at that moment, I jumped up to answer all my patient's call lights. I did an assessment along with the nurse and asked what she heard or felt. I let other nurses know I was eager for things to do. I didn't focus on charting because that would have dramatically slowed up the nurse and it is something you will learn on your job. If the nurse is a total dud then ask to follow the nursing assistant around for awhile. All their tasks will be things you need to know as a nurse.
I know exactly what you mean. When an educator/clinical instructor shows up on the floor, it may not be on your radar as a nurse. It's not like they announce to all the nurses who will be teaching and when so you know what to expect. Also, they don't really ever introduce nurses to students so nurses on the floor have no actual "ownership" of the process that is happening in your education.
NanikRN
392 Posts
I know what you're saying about your experience-- you are a student nurse that says your observations "should have grabbed her attention". As if you know where her attention should be. Her attention was most likely where it should have been-- with her patient.
Book knowledge is good but it doesnt trump the pt's nurses' both book knowledge and working knowledge.
I didnt belittle your book knowledge-- i held up a mirror for you to see how you were presenting yourself.