As opposed to putting it on the "paying dues' thread, I'll start a new one...
Do you feel that there truly is a "nursing shortage" in our country today? Or more specifically, in your part of the country?
I have a hard time believing that it's true, when we are getting called off left and right because we have too many nurses scheduled for what our census is on most days. In particular, our 12 hour night shifts are WAY overscheduled, sometimes we have SEVEN RN's on at that time (and we never need more than five, and five is if we are full, usually it's four or even three, so often we are calling people off/sending people home).
In those areas that feel they have an over abundance of Nurses, is it really an overabundance of Nurses or really a shortage of patients.
As the economy slows many people are putting off elective procedures or if faced with high copay's putting off even necessary procedures.
our area, we lost 20,000 people in the last year due to the downturn in the housing market which reduced our numbers of patients. Due to the economy, census everywhere is beginning to tank. Hospital budgets are if not already squeezed are significantly looking at way of tightening their belts in response to the current economic climate.
Bottom line, only the hospitals keeping budgets in control to weather the crisis will survive in the end that equates to you and me working.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
The slumping economy is affecting nursing. Masses of part-time nurses are taking full-time positions during this economic meltdown to keep their households afloat as their breadwinner spouses are losing their jobs. Many retired nurses are reactivating their nursing licenses and returning to the nursing workforce due to the high costs of food and fuel, and the effects of rapidly sinking retirement accounts. This translates into a surplus of nurses.
In addition, census tends to be low during economic downturns. Patients avoid having elective surgeries during recessions because they do not want to be stuck with medical bills, and they do not want to take the time off work. Since more people become unemployed and uninsured during recessions, they are less likely to seek healthcare institutions if they have no medical coverage. This translates into far less patients than usual.
I agree with TheCommuter. This is what we have seen on the east coast also. Many nurses have lost their jobs, laid off, and were unable to easily find new ones (many for the first time). They certainly don't always tell a lot of people, because most of the public seems to think that there are an overabundance of nursing jobs. I have known 6 nurses who were unemployed over the last few months and having difficulty finding a job, including ltc. There are many jobs advertised, but for some reason the nurses are not being offered them. Could some of it also be age-related? (older nurses). Not sure. I am hopeful that things will turn around, maybe in 2009?): I would tell any nurse who is having trouble finding a job to hang on, be persistent and keep the faith!
As other posters noted there is only a shortage due to the pick and choose attitudes alot of students have coming out of school. They zero in on one type of work and if they don't get it right away they continue to ignore other jobs until they realize there isn't any jobs out there! Wrong, there are jobs just not the ones they want. Some areas of the country are saturated with nurses only because everybody wants to move there work and live. I almost think the BORN of Calif should put a rule in place where you can't apply for a license here for a least a year after graduation. I know , this is a bit selfish but I feel it is unfair for all those who go to school here only to have to compete for work with 20 people, 15 of those from other parts of the country. Don't be so picky, take any job and get some good experience then move on later into work you really want to do.
I hear what you are saying, however I believe again due current and future economy none of us may end up in the position of pick and choose. We are truly headed to a thank god I have a job mode for awhile at least. Our economy is not going to improve over night, it is only worsensing at a rate I have never seen in my lifetime.
While the term 'shortage' is misleading, it sure feels like one when there are not enough nurses employed in a facility to adequately staff the shifts. It doesn't really matter too much how many UNemployed (by their own choosing) nurses there are; if they are unwilling to work at the bedside where they are most needed, then a shortage it is. If there's a hundred unemployed, licensed RNs in my county but none of them are willing to pick up a shift at the hospital, it doesn't matter to me that they COULD work, but don't. I'M working short-staffed, so....that's the bottom line.
IMO, as the economy worsens, the need for healthcare does not, only the ability of the people to pay for it, and the hospitals to accomodate the freebies. Reimbursements will go into the toilet, meaning that there will be less $$ to pay the staff, meaning that if now your facility pays for a ratio of 1:6, expect 1:8-9 later. Yes, we all scream about staffing ratios, safe assignments, me included. But just who is going to pay for those lower ratios if the general public has fewer jobs and fewer means for insurance?
I don't doubt that I'll continue to have a job through whatever depression is coming our way (forget recession, we're ALOT closer to the Great Depression than I want to think about). But I also don't doubt that hospitals aren't going to be bending over backwards to make my workload lighter when they are cutting OUT staff, and cutting corners on expenses. If we work through a depression, it's going to be with worse ratios and fewer supplies, mark my words.
I hear what you are saying, however I believe again due current and future economy none of us may end up in the position of pick and choose. We are truly headed to a thank god I have a job mode for awhile at least. Our economy is not going to improve over night, it is only worsensing at a rate I have never seen in my lifetime.
This why we DON'T need to import nurses to this country. We have plenty of nurses that are graduating from US schools to fill the jobs out there. . What we don't need is an influx of subpar trained nurses taking jobs from students who work extremely hard just to get through school. Cheap labor equates subadequate workers. With the downturn in the economy and the call for creation of jobs we should be begging our politicians to stop or at least to lessen the working visas we give out each year. I am NOT directing this at any particular group but at ALL foreign trained nurses. At least my many years of experience and an area of great need does help me. Everyone needs to realize why there are less jobs out there and do something about it and stop complaining.
As other posters noted there is only a shortage due to the pick and choose attitudes alot of students have coming out of school. They zero in on one type of work and if they don't get it right away they continue to ignore other jobs until they realize there isn't any jobs out there! Wrong, there are jobs just not the ones they want. Some areas of the country are saturated with nurses only because everybody wants to move there work and live. I almost think the BORN of Calif should put a rule in place where you can't apply for a license here for a least a year after graduation. I know , this is a bit selfish but I feel it is unfair for all those who go to school here only to have to compete for work with 20 people, 15 of those from other parts of the country. Don't be so picky, take any job and get some good experience then move on later into work you really want to do.
Why would this matter? If new grads are able to be hired in positions they want or decide not to work because they are too picky, who cares? If they were complaining about not being able to find a job I'd agree with your last line 100% but that isn't the feedback I have read here.
FWIW I've found work and opportunities plentiful in the Balto/DC area.
Why would this matter? If new grads are able to be hired in positions they want or decide not to work because they are too picky, who cares? If they were complaining about not being able to find a job I'd agree with your last line 100% but that isn't the feedback I have read here.
FWIW I've found work and opportunities plentiful in the Balto/DC area.
I think it matters very much. I don't know about you but I have been around long enough in nursing to see this in many posts on this forum. A person who greatly desires to work L&D will pass up other oppurtunities so, just in case, that dream job comes along. This might take months and months. Granted, if they want to do this that is fine, thier perogative. But, I just bet, many of these same people are holding out and complaining there are no jobs. Just the opposite in many places around the country. It is that they have their heart set on L&D and don't really want to do anything else. Also, they keep saying there are no jobs in the same places around country but mainly here in California around the Bay area and San Diego. It seems everyone that grads from nursing around the country wants to go to these places and they wonder why there are no jobs! DUH! I guess what you are hearing in these posts and what I percieve to be the problem are each others opinion. I also plan on working until I want to stop which is not to far in the future. I had plan on working until I was 65 full-time even before this economic meltdown. I will then cut back part-time until I want to stop, so my spot is a long way off you young wippersnappers!
Is this for a school paper on nursing shortage? Are you pro or con for it? lol
yes there is a nursing shortage - nurses are getting older and retiring more and we need new nurses to fill in their spot.
No, it's not for a school paper. I've been an RN for over 7 years, and in healthcare for over 12.
It's both here, and from students I see doing clinicals on my floor, that I hear the term "nursing shortage" and it baffles me...I look at the current posted positions in my facility, and there are just NONE. Especially not for new grads; the types of positions that ARE out there might be for, the director of a department, that requires much education/experience. I could not imagine graduating NOW and trying to find a job compared to when I did, when I had the choice of what floor I wanted to work on (I interviewed for 3 floors all at once, I was called at home less than an hour afterwards and offered a position on "whichever one I wanted." This would not happen today!).
We certainly do work what feels "short," but this is based on how many nurses we are told we can have on, not how many we have available. This is only going to get worse as our economy continues to crash, sadly. I've always thought that my choice of nursing as a career equated with job security, and I no longer feel that way, I feel lucky to have a job at all! My income is no longer guaranteed either, as we are frequently called off despite the floor being busy (I'm often amazed, if I get called off for the first portion of my shift, how crazy it is when I come in, knowing they couldn't justify having the extra nurse there!). I can use vacation right now to supplement my lost hours, but it is rapidly drying up, and what do I do once it's gone?? I feel DANG lucky to have my job, this is the one thing I can say for sure.
Thank you all for your input. I decided to ask because I continue to see the words "nursing shortage" every where, and couldn't understand the reasoning behind thinking there IS one. I would have no problem working ANYWHERE right now, be it a nursing home or whatever, just to have a job at all (I picked a hospital after graduation rather than the nursing home I worked as a CNA at in order to use my skills). I don't have what anyone would call a "dream job," I don't think; it's not a specialty (well, I think med/surg is a specialty, but not all would agree). My hours are good for me (12 hour pm's), but not all would like them. I considered it a gift to have the opportunity/seniority to get off of 12 hour nights after almost 7 years of that.
I disagree on the retirement aspect also; the "aging' RN's I work for are no longer thinking they will be able to retire at ALL unless forced in to it, either by our facility or by their own health or other circumstances. That, coupled with the demand to get by with less staff overall, defies the logic of "filling spots"....in my experience, as people leave/retire, those "spots" are not filled. They are absorbed and gotten rid of.
Again, thank you for your thoughts, keep them coming. I know that things may be very different in other parts of the country, so it's good to hear for either a) reassurance or b) confirmation!
lpnflorida, LPN
1,304 Posts
our area, we lost 20,000 people in the last year due to the downturn in the housing market which reduced our numbers of patients. Due to the economy, census everywhere is beginning to tank. Hospital budgets are if not already squeezed are significantly looking at way of tightening their belts in response to the current economic climate.
Bottom line, only the hospitals keeping budgets in control to weather the crisis will survive in the end that equates to you and me working.