I hope no one objects to my joining and asking a question, but we are getting desperate. Our daughter is in nursing school in Ohio. She started at U. of Toledo and was on track to exceed the GPA required to get into nursing school there, but they changed the rules at the last minute and she just missed the mark, as she didn't have time to raise her GPA another tenth of a point.
She transferred to another school in Toledo, one connected to a hospital with a good reputation. We've discovered that at this school, any student who scores below 80 percent in ANY course more than once is kicked out of the program. We know of a student who had successfully completed all her nursing courses and only needed to pass an algebra course to graduate. She scored 79 and was told she could not graduate and would have to repeat the ENTIRE program which she had already passed.
Our daughter is in her third year of the BSN program and is in danger of a second strike that could force her back to square one. That'll be 60k of our money down the tubes. IMO it's a racket that should be investigated. I know many nurses my age who didn't have to endure this...um...stuff. The demand for nurses is at an all time high and it seems like they're making it harder than ever to achieve a degree.
Are all the nursing schools in Ohio like this? What about in other states? We're considering looking at schools in NC, as we have family there.
Does anyone have suggestions for schools that have more sane policies? We would be extremely grateful for any guidance - we don't know where to turn. Thank you for letting me vent.
The below 80% in any class more than once was the same as my school. Pretty standard. 80% was pretty much considered the passing grade. Also, my school required like a 3.5 GPA to get into the nursing program.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
It is important to pay close attention to the student handbook and the syllabus because it does illustrate what the expectations are. I used to check off each task to be sure that things were done in a timely manner and write dates down on my student calendar in pencil (because things changed so often) so that I can see a clear overview of what overlapped with what. Also, I used to make sure that I met with the student advisors to be abreast on what seperate exams the school required, etc...
In one of my pre-req classes, microbiology, it was required to have a 91% for the A. I ended up with a 90.7% there was no rounding, and I got a B and another year of applying to nursing programs.
Now the school I am in requires to pass math calculations with a 95%, you get two attempts, the an exam average of 75%, clinical is considered a pass/no pass and is dependent of the clinical instructor, plus we have our reaserch papers each term that is a pass/ no pass, and our lab, if we fail to pass all of lab skills by the last week of the term we fail, if we fail to pass any one of these you are out of the program.
Our first nursing class which was the basics similar to learning the CNA skills, which was taken over the summer, we only had 1 test, the final exam, pass with a 75% you get to move on to the next class
I attended (but got married, and dropped out of) the BSN program at Miami University, in Oxford, Ohio. It was a GREAT program, and wasn't that difficult to get into, in my opinion (though I had really good grades, so this wasn't an issue for me). However, the nursing program did have their own grading scale (an 83% was considered a C, not a B), and all nursing classes had to be passed with a C or better (so 83% or better).
I'm now trying to go back to school here in Utah, and it's INSANE. You need a 4.0 in your pre-req classes (even though my overall GPA is higher than most applicants , the TWO B's on my transcripts happen to be in the pre-req classes-Algebra and Nutrition which I blew off my senior year of high school). Consequently, students just keep retaking classes until they have a 4.0 in those 5 classes. There are no interviews, no points for related work/volunteer experience, etc. I know people who have applied 6 times, and not gotten in, and I know other people who flunked biology 3 times, but got an A the 4th time, who get in over students who got an 89 the first time. It's NUTS. One of the other schools, which only offers and ASN has a 3 year waiting list, and the U of U is too far for me to drive. So, this semester I had to retake Algebra, and Nutrition.
The state of nursing admissions/applications/acceptance is very frustrating EVERYWHERE!
^^If I encountered this scenario I'd start looking at other allied health programs. Nursing is appealing because of the broad scope of practice, but if it's a matter of being sidelined for years while you wait for training , it makes more sense to go with a different program where you can get in, get trained and start working. There are many techs who earn just as much as RN's and either way you'd be working in health care.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
^^If I encountered this scenario I'd start looking at other allied health programs. Nursing is appealing because of the broad scope of practice, but if it's a matter of being sidelined for years while you wait for training , it makes more sense to go with a different program where you can get in, get trained and start working. There are many techs who earn just as much as RN's and either way you'd be working in health care.
This is one reason why I suggested that if the OP's daughter loses her seat, that she try an LPN program and then, transition to an LPN-BSN program at a later date. Depending on where one lives, LPNs can make almost as much money as RNs with an extra few hours of overtime, if the difference in pay is only $5 an hour. Sometimes, we have to work around some of the issues to get where we wish to be. In addition, the person can practice as a nurse to see if what they are working towards is worth it. There are so many people I encounter, either on this forum or in life that fought HARD to get into, graduate and start working as a nurse and real life hits them and they are discouraged. Not to say this would happen with this person, but that it can be a possibility.
The difficulty is that there must be a standard of what is passing and what isn't. If the standard is breached over a half point, then the standard is effectively lowered....until the next time someone misses by a half point, and the standard is effectively lowered again.
Agreed. Furthermore, I'm sure the school was clear on their 80% policy, so ultimately, your daughter should have worked harder to earn a higher grade. I know it seems frustrating, and I'm sorry that this may be costing you money but what it comes down to is this: Did your daughter pass all of her classes with the required score, yes or no? If the answer is "no", then it is not the school's fault or due to some "crazy" policy. In the end, the standards are what they are and its up to each student to do whatever is neccessary to meet those standards. End of story.
Nursing schools have to be strict about this policy for a number of reasons. I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it really is to get through nursing school. My school required a solid B average in all classes to progress through the program. I think that boils down to anything over an 83%. My nursing fundamentals class we saw numbers dwindle as we went on.
Tell your daughter to study harder, seek out the professor for extra help, and do whatever it takes to pass. Keep up with the reading, and live and breath nursing theory until she passes.
I really feel your pain and anger because that is just sooooo unfair and yes some of those school should be investigated. Sixty thousand plus the time and emotional/physical distress are just too much.
Sometimes I think this so called policy makers make this unreasonable rules just to give people a hard time. Why would anyone have to repeat an ENTIRE program for failing just one ALGEBRA course that is not even med/surge.
When I started PN school ten years ago, the passing grade for all nursing courses was 70%, and 90% for math/pharmacology. The school had average nclex passing rate of 93% on first attemp. 97% of my class passed on first attemp. Now the same school is asking for 80% for all nursing and 95% for math/pharm. Do they need to do that?, I don't think so. But one thing with the school is that, they offer tutoring outside the classroom at no extra cost. My RN school have raised their passing score also, but with them I can understand because their nclex passing average was 83%.
For your daughter, maybe you should speak to a faculty member to see if there is anything you can do or maybe you should get a tutor. Wish your daughter all the best of LUCK.
[[Does your daughter's school have a student handbook for the nursing program?]]
That's the thing...we can't seem to find anything in writing that specifically spells out what the "rules" are. The web site says one thing (must maintain at least a 2.0 - she has a 2.9something) and not fail more than two nursing courses (she hasn't). The catalog doesn't spell anything out that we can find. (By the way, this is Mercy College in Toledo...anyone been there?)
Her grades were posted and she passed the course in question. However we received word today that she has been deregistered from the nursing program. We are confused and of course we can reach no one until after the holidays.
[[if the answer is "no", then it is not the school's fault or due to some "crazy" policy.]]
What I'm saying is, it's not right that a student pass his or her nursing classes and clinicals, and then because of falling a single point or half a point short in their final class before graduation, a non-nursing class, they have to repeat the ENTIRE program, even the courses and clinicals they already passed.
Now, if they have to repeat that single class a second time to get that extra point, I understand that. But repeat the entire program? No, I'm sorry, I don't believe that is a fair or reasonable policy.
I'm not looking to start an argument, truly. I agree standards have to be set and maintained. Please bear with me as I work through holding back my own panic and disappointment in order to focus on keeping my daughter together long enough to either get her through this or figure out a different direction for her life. Nursing has been her dream since she was 14 and volunteered in a hospital. There is no second choice, no fallback. The goal has been nursing from the first day she thought about a career for herself.
I like to think she chose nursing because my illnesses, which exposed her to a lot of great medical professionals from a young age. At least something good might come from my infirmaties.
All I want for her is to get her degree and be able to support herself in her career so she doesn't have do depend on someone else to survive like I always have. What I have to keep reminding myself is that she is able bodied and even if she has to dig ditches to put food on the table, she can do it.
Okay, I guess I'd better shut up now. :)
Happy holidays to everyone, and thanks again for your kindness.
I agree that the policy the OP speaks of isn't fair. There are many current nurses and current nursing students who DIDN'T get B's in algebra and were allowed to become nurses. I'm pretty sure that there are RN programs out there that don't require algebra at all. So I don't see it as a matter of strict standards to ensure safe nurses. But the school has it's policies and that's what the students signed up for and are held to.
The biggest issue I have here is why the school won't let the student re-take THAT course. Maybe the rational is that if the student takes a year off to re-take a course and get back into the next year's class to pick up where they left off, that they will have forgotten too much and so it's better for them to just start from scratch. There's a point there, but MANY schools do allow students to pick up where they left off if they had to leave the program temporarily. So again, it doesn't seem to be a matter of ensuring safe nurses.
Nursing education is full of such frustrations and it varies a lot between schools because there are often widely differing requirements for entry into programs and for maintaining good status as a student.
What to do? As others have noted, the student needs to get detailed information about the school policies and to work with the school staff to see if anything can be worked out. The student needs to approach this with a high degree of personal responsibility. While the policy may be unfair, it's the system the student is working within. Railing against the unfairness will only come across as an immature tantrum.
As the student's parent, take a back seat here. A parent speaking for or interceding for a nursing student will NOT help matters.
Finally, if this truly is the OP's daughter's dream, she will find a way to make it happen. But that's the daughter's challenge, not the OP's. She's an adult now. She's in training to be a professional. Best of luck to her!!
[[if I encountered this scenario I'd start looking at other allied health programs. Nursing is appealing because of the broad scope of practice, but if it's a matter of being sidelined for years while you wait for training , it makes more sense to go with a different program where you can get in, get trained and start working. There are many techs who earn just as much as RN's and either way you'd be working in health care.]]
Thanks, we were just talking about this! We're at a loss, though...we're pretty clueless about kind of programs are out there, which ones are most likely to lead to a decent job, and not the least of which which ones are best suited for her. :)
I think at this point she could use not only a good school counselor but a good career counselor who can give her some direction (aptitude tests, etc). Right now we're not in a good place to make those kinds of decisions without guidance from the right people.
It's not easy to give up on a dream without some kind of tools to develop a new one.
blondy2061h, MSN, RN
1 Article; 4,094 Posts
The below 80% in any class more than once was the same as my school. Pretty standard. 80% was pretty much considered the passing grade. Also, my school required like a 3.5 GPA to get into the nursing program.