Nursing School and Nursing Education....Not a good equation

nicole109 · Feb 26, 2010

Welcome to nursing is all that I have to say--unfortunately, as a whole--for whatever reason, nursing has a very weak voice in society. There are an abundance of issues in our profession that need to be addressed, and you can just add this to the list. The reality of this situation is that in order to require nursing faculty to have such background as you would like them to have, they not only would have to have the expertise in their given specialty of nursing, but they would also have to go back to school for advanced education in teaching, etc. I personally have not had the bad experiences that you have had during my nursing education, and I am currently enrolled in graduate school as well. But I would rather have an instructor with clinical bedside experience over textbook experience in any field any day, because I think that the experiences that you learn at the bedside are far more important and valuable than what a textbook can teach you any day--and for that I would gladly be willing to overlook a grammatical error in an exam question. Nobody is perfect.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · Feb 26, 2010

you may be right that many instructors are not educators in the classic sense. But if you restrict every educator to those with adult education degrees plus nursing degrees we would have fewer teachers than we now have (and that is not enough). My recommendation is that you accept the fact that ALL adult learning is self-learning and buckle down and learn.

PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN · Feb 26, 2010

Most of our "in-house" educators have a background in teaching, and are actually going to get their Masters in Nursing "Education." Yes, educational principles are taught.

I don't know how to explain your "professors."

SAHMStudent · Feb 26, 2010

*sigh* Well, I happen to agree with the idea that there should be some experience in education as well as in nursing expected of nursing instructors. But everyone has to start somewhere. Not a single nurse educator started out with decades of teaching experience as well as nursing experience. Some people are more dynamic instructors with an innate ability to make the material come alive. But that is true of all educators. Should the teacher stop teaching because their classes don't loooooove them? Who would be left?

Having said that, I too, am very frustrated at some of the "proffessors" I have had over the last few semesters of nursing school. Every single one has had 20+ years experience as a working, bedside nurse. But not all of them have had more than 3 years of educational experience. My aggravation, which is slowing turning to anger and apathy by turns, is that for some new educators, their biggest challenge is organization. The course calendar is set by the nursing program, they have little leeway within it. Assignments; due dates, content, format, and forms to be included are hazy details. When returned, if at all, the comments are illegible, and therefore useless. Exams: content, important points, reality of application in clinical vs. theory, are sometimes contradictory, vary from teacher to teacher in the same program at the same time, and not shared among the students. So as an adult, I take matters into my own hands and collaborate with other sections to share what was not shared with us by our teachers. When pressed for the "correct" answer to an exam question, the teacher may not know the rationale behind it, why the others are incorrect, and cannot make changes, even when confronted with a word for word answer contradicting their (poorly) written test question. Proffessors: some have it, some don't.

I do believe that "you get out what you put into it", but I would appreciate some professionalsim, consistency, and absolute standards, when the same is expected of me. If I am not to be late to clinical or lab, then neither should you be. You may not hold me late, when your poor organizational skills made an event longer than scheduled. If I am not prepared, it is my fault, and I will recieve my own punishment. When YOU are not prepared, I should not also be punished.

I could go on and on, but bottom line? I intend to get my masters, work as long as I can bedside, then give back to the nursing community by teaching. The only way to truly improve the system is to work inside of it.

noyesno, MSN, APRN, NP · Feb 26, 2010

I just joined allnurses.com so I could reply to this thread.

While I don't know if it would be possible for schools to require instructors to have complete education degrees on top of their nursing credentials, I do think they should have some sort of formal training on how to teach. Its kind of ridiculous that a masters alone is enough to qualify RNs to educate. This has bothered me throughout nursing school and also during my bachelors in another field (where most of my classes were taught by grad students). The grammatical errors drive me crazy too! I'm a lover of language, correct grammar, and things like semicolons! I feel your pain!

:)

GQue1911 · Feb 26, 2010

Great points and feedback everyone! However, it seem to deviate towards instructors just having a degree in education? This was not the point I was trying to make at all. I really can careless what you degree is in, as long as you understand what "teaching and learning" means to adult learners. The main issue is that we accept this level of education and keep it pushing. It does not take a masters or a bachelors degree to understand how to teach, it takes gifting and experience! Just because someone has 30 years at the bedside, and knows everything there is to know about nursing care, doesn't mean they understand the do's and do not's of being adult educators which includes much more than just standing in front of a class rambling off powerpoints or prior experience. I'm talking about the nursing education experience as a whole, not just the education of the instructor.

SMHAStudent! You took the words right out of my mouth kudos

nicole109 · Feb 26, 2010

To the OP: did you ever stop to think that you may have a learning style that doesn't match the teaching style of a given professor? Not every student (adult learner or not) learns the same, some prefer a hands on approach, some prefer wrote memorization, some are visual learners...everybody learns differently, therefore, everybody teaches differently. It's truly one of the marvels of the world, and grammar aside, you should embrace the different teaching styles, and try to do your best with them, and if they are truly getting in the way of your education then you need to address that issue with your instructor. You are only going to get out of your education what you put into in, and I'm going to bet that the intent of your instructors are not to make your life miserable, they are trying to pass on the information in the best way that they know how--but they can't learn it for you, and it seems that you have put up a wall because you are frustrated...

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Feb 26, 2010

I had instructors who didn't have bachelor's degrees, let alone teaching credits.

I hated nursing school. Passionately. I found a lot of it to be more militaristic hazing than education.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Feb 26, 2010

What a Great Thread! As an educator, I am finding it extremely engaging.

I have avoided academia entirely - except for 'forced' excursions required as part of my doctoral stuff - but I tend to agree with the original poster about the lack of knowledge/ability in the discipline of education among nursing faculty. But I think I have a theory about that.

First of all, it takes the average nurse a looooonnnng time to obtain the qualifications needed to join 'academentia'. We are a practice profession & we discourage anyone moving ahead to Masters & Doctoral studies before they have a significant amount of clinical experience & expertise. Accreditation requirements dictate very strict standards for nursing faculty - focused on nursing, not education. That means that our newbie faculty are probably in their mid to late 40's and may have had very little actual teaching experience.

Faculty salaries are a joke. My current job (managing workplace education) pays ~ twice what I would receive in academia. The cost-per unit of degree programs rises with the level of the program... graduate & post-grad programs can be very expensive. We have student loans to re-pay also! So, are schools really able to attract the best & brightest faculty or are they losing them to other higher-paying environments.

Nursing schools are very poorly funded. This limits the amount of continuing education/training they can afford to provide for faculty. Many schools have had to cut back on tenure positions and hire non-tenure and part time faculty in order to ensure the survival of their programs. These types of positions do not attract people who are completely commited to an academic career.

Finally - nursing schools must adhere to the overall mission of the college or university in which they exist. This usually puts a very high premium on non-teaching activities such as research and publishing. Faculty who use their time to actually improve their own teaching skills rather than addressing 'important' activities are seen as a drag on their departments - they don't get tenure or advancement.

Just felt like I needed to throw these issues into the pile.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 26, 2010

Interesting....when I got my MSN in 2005, the concentration was management and leadership. I absolutely hate to teach but was forced to take about 3-4 classes that were about education and how to teach.

I doubt that I will ever teach as anyone who would be my student would be running from the profession, lol.

Agree that you have to have a background in education in order to teach.

GQue1911 · Mar 3, 2010

To the OP: did you ever stop to think that you may have a learning style that doesn't match the teaching style of a given professor?

To answer your question, Yes, I am very aware of the different learning styles that adults posses. This post is not about a frustration; yet, a serious issue that is currently in nursing education. With there being different teaching styles and all, there is also a level of understanding in education which allows any type of instructor to understand all types of learners. This is what we are lacking in nursing education. Now, do not get me wrong, I have some instructors that are awesome at lecturing and demonstrating skills; however, does this means they know how to properly write a test question? or understand the adult attention span? or conduct a proper evaulation of a course to better it? NO, it doesn't at all.

HouTx,

Wow...very good information! Thanks for replying! Hopefully one day you can pay those loans off and join into the academic world with your true understanding of what education is all about.