Nursing school double standards?

FLmomof5 · Oct 21, 2009

When you want to say, "WHATHEHE//!" to some of those posts, please stop for a moment and look at the age of the poster.

Fact is, I am on the same page as the OP. I am 47 yrs old. I have 5 children (hence the name) and my husband has 4. He is AD Army (works 2 states away and commutes home on the weekend) and will be deployed in January. I work FT. Oh sure, I could quit. How many of you criticizing the OP wants to hand me (or her) $4k a month to cover the bills so that the home life will continue? Didn't think so. I am in 2nd term of NS.

It isn't easy. Not everyone could do this. But not everyone can quit or work part-time. There is the nice to haves and then there is reality.

I worked for the USAF, NASA and for the past 18 yrs, I have been in (mainframe) computer programming. After reading the boards and seeing the requirements of NS, so much has been exposed. I know why most people think nurses do nothing more than follow a doctor's orders or sit at the nursing station not working. (It's not true, of course.) I also know why nurses do not have the respect of the administration. I won't get into WHY, because it would get too OT for this thread.

I stayed out of this one for days. Who needs to get flamed by those who have never worn our moccassins. Who needs to get flamed by those who have never worked in a man's field and know that this set of behavior would never happen in their world. We, who have worked elsewhere and have other college degrees, have seen a side of life they have not.

OP, know that there are those of us on this board who not only support you in your dreams, but agree with much of what you said. Good luck to you and keep your chin up!

HyperSaurus, RN, BSN · Oct 21, 2009

To the OP--I understand your situation. It's not ideal and it sounds pretty difficult. I know of plenty who do work and go to school full time and are still excelling. And, it is possible for a program to be mildly flexible. So, no, I don't think you working full time and trying to go to school indicates that you are less than dedicated. That said--It'll be over soonish. I often tell my self 'I can do anything for a semester'.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Oct 21, 2009

Being expected to perform to the program's expectations is not a double standard. Does it suck that a PT program designed supposedly for working adults is turning out to not be so friendly to working FT and juggling family responsibilities? Yeah. Does it suck that support services are scheduled when you can't be there and are considered proof of your dedication? Yeah. Support services are support services. My school tracks attendance at non-mandatory review and skill sessions, not to determine who is dedicated but to a. get a sense of whether the resources are being utilized for programming improvements and b. for when students do have problems to see if they've made any effort to get help (you can schedule tutoring sessions if the seminar ones don't fit in your schedule).

When I was working on my prerequisites, I had classmates who would complain about the instructor giving homework or scheduling tests when they had to work over the weekend and have family responsibilities and wouldn't have time to study. I do believe that they were busy and stretched too thin and felt very sorry for them, but class requirements and scheduling can't be scheduled around our outside lives.

I realize that not everyone has the luxury of being able to stop working during nursing school. I get the sense that your school might not have been clear on the workload required for the program before you started. Is there another part-time program in your area you could try switching to? Otherwise, vent when you need to but try not to carry that frustration around with you. Being able to let go of things that make me angry and stressed is an ongoing, difficult process for me, but I've noticed a huge drop in my anxiety level, which allows me to fix what I can and deal with the rest without feeling like I'm going to vomit up my heart.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Oct 21, 2009

When you want to say, "WHATHEHE//!" to some of those posts, please stop for a moment and look at the age of the poster.
Fact is, I am on the same page as the OP. I am 47 yrs old. I have 5 children (hence the name) and my husband has 4. He is AD Army (works 2 states away and commutes home on the weekend) and will be deployed in January. I work FT. Oh sure, I could quit. How many of you criticizing the OP wants to hand me (or her) $4k a month to cover the bills so that the home life will continue? Didn't think so. I am in 2nd term of NS.
It isn't easy. Not everyone could do this. But not everyone can quit or work part-time. There is the nice to haves and then there is reality.
I worked for the USAF, NASA and for the past 18 yrs, I have been in (mainframe) computer programming. After reading the boards and seeing the requirements of NS, so much has been exposed. I know why most people think nurses do nothing more than follow a doctor's orders or sit at the nursing station not working. (It's not true, of course.) I also know why nurses do not have the respect of the administration. I won't get into WHY, because it would get too OT for this thread.
I stayed out of this one for days. Who needs to get flamed by those who have never worn our moccassins. Who needs to get flamed by those who have never worked in a man's field and know that this set of behavior would never happen in their world. We, who have worked elsewhere and have other college degrees, have seen a side of life they have not.
OP, know that there are those of us on this board who not only support you in your dreams, but agree with much of what you said. Good luck to you and keep your chin up!

I didn't agree with every point the OP made, call it criticizing or whatever you want, but how do you know the life I have had, have you walked in my shoes? Speaking of double standards and all that. Have you walked in any of the other posters shoes to know what they have and have not gone through before criticizing them? Or does being older with a bunch of kids automatically make one a genius and wiser then everyone else?

pomegranate · Oct 22, 2009

I'm sorry, but this especially irked me >>Who needs to get flamed by those who have never worked in a man's field and know that this set of behavior would never happen in their world. We, who have worked elsewhere and have other college degrees, have seen a side of life they have not.>>

What, exactly, is that supposed to mean? I'm not gonna 'flame' you just yet because maybe it just came out wrong, but it sounded really sexist to me. And I agree with whoever said upthread that parenting does not make you a genius--I'm so tired of these parents who think they are better than everyone else simply because they're parents. Sorry, your **** still stinks, and you don't get a free pass for not being up to par just because you're busy. Everyone's busy!

Just my two cents, but nursing school is more intensive than other college classes, period. Everyone I know who went through nursing school and has other college experience says the same thing. I don't think it's comparable to say "well i have a 4 year degree that I got 10 years ago and blah blah blah" because it's NOT the same thing. Trying to take a set of requirements and say "i think it's unreasonable to do such and such" because it's not done in the field where you work...well, this isn't the field you work in. Of course there are going to be different expectations. Like a poster upthread stated, being late when you're a nurse goes over much worse than it does in a corporate environment because it can have real life ramifications for your patients as well as your coworkers.

Blaming it on your job isn't an excuse, either, because you knew when the classes started and you know how long it should take to get from your job to school.

Nobody can control accidents because they will always happen, but you CAN plan for worst case scenario. I usually leave my house a half an hour earlier than I need to because I am not willing to be late, and I've been unsuccessful in my attempts to curry favor with the traffic gods as of yet :wink2: I know I'm a crazy person, but you should really have given yourself some leeway when planning your schedule rather than just assuming you would be able to make the dash from work to school without anything ever going awry.

Like I said, I do think there are some legitimate concerns...class going an HOUR over its end time is a legitimate concern, because it means either a large share of the class isn't 'getting it' or they did not plan adequate time for the material. Support services should not be used as proof of your dedication unless you are failing and still not utilizing them. From what you said, you're just annoyed from the instructors forming an opinion of you based on attendance at them. As long as you are doing well otherwise, don't worry about it! You will prove yourself as a good nursing student through your performance in class, and it will get through to them if they are good teachers. If not, then you either need to muscle up and bear through it, or consider switching to a different program that's more realistic or accomodating.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Oct 22, 2009

pomegranate, great post, (this is coming from a mom of 4 kids yet I have never been late to class or even missed a class nor do I make excuses because I have children or feel I deserve any special rights because I have children). In the original post the person said mentioned traffic and getting to class late and how their is ALWAYS traffic on I am assuming a Hwy they take. Well if you know their is always traffic then you plan accordingly.

Now if their is a rare occasion that a usually smooth ride is backed up and stuff then that is one thing and usually their are a few students that take the same route so they are late as well. Sure we can't fully plan for the unexpected, but we can plan for the expected and normal every day traffic is expected, having a hard time finding a parking spot could be expected and so on.

Anyway, as I stated before I can understand some of the frustrations brought up in the original post, I think some of them are quiet valid, I don't agree with all the points made nor do I think they ALL are valid. That's my right!

pomegranate · Oct 22, 2009

Exactly what I was trying to say Mi Vida Loca! you know, I understand that things happen sometimes...there is traffic every day on the highway I take to school and accidents every other day, so I plan for it. Once in a while there is a really bad one and I've been late a couple of times, but so were all the other students in my class who lived in that direction AND the instructor! It just peeves me when people walk in late and go "oh there was traffic..." I know where you live, I know what route you take to school, and honey.. there is ALWAYS traffic!

Also, I do truly commend you and the other moms who take the hard route to school. I just don't like people using their kids as excuses for things, because I watched my mom raise me and my 3 siblings and get a 4.0 GPA in college doing it pretty much on her own. If she can, then they can too--not denying it's a difficult road, but that only makes the rewards that much stronger, because not only do you have the respect and admiration of strangers, but that of your children too. :redbeathe

By the way I guess I was taking my frustration with some of the students in my class out in my last post, so if anything came off overly rude I apologize to y'all (though not for everything I said: there's a difference between rudeness and blunt truth, too.)

Music in My Heart · Oct 22, 2009

I just don't like people using their kids as excuses for things, because I watched my mom raise me and my 3 siblings and get a 4.0 GPA in college doing it pretty much on her own. If she can, then they can too

No, they can't necessarily. Perhaps your mom was exceptionally smart, possessed of excellent study skills, had easier teachers, or something else. Just because she could doesn't mean that everybody else can... or should be able to if only they would work hard enough.

Everybody is unique.

I get tired of hearing people say, "I did ____ so you can too" or similar things. Everybody walks their own path and to diminish (or augment) their challenges by first-person comparison is invalid and unfair.

pomegranate · Oct 22, 2009

That's true, of course. What I really meant by "if she can, then they can too" was really more a rebuttal to the excause along the lines of people saying that they CAN'T ~because~ they have kids. As my mom, Mi Vida Loca, and I'm sure thousands of other nursing students with kids have proved, yes, you can with kids. Don't blame it solely on them when there are many other factors influencing performance.

HyperSaurus, RN, BSN · Oct 22, 2009

Heck, my dad raised 6 kids, took care of his wife with rheumatoid arthritis, and worked nights, all while in nursing school.

Sure, he didn't get perfect grades, but it can be done. Not necessarily encouraged, but it's possible.

FLmomof5 · Oct 22, 2009

Yep, ya'll read into my post things I did not say.

Like I said....I am 47. I didn't say I knew what went on in YOUR life. I DID say that you didn't know what has happened in MY life. It is an arrogant thing to ASSUME that people with kids are "using it as an excuse" or even worse to IMPLY (since neither the OP nor I did) that "WE" thought that we were SMARTER than those without kids.

The way my post was read into (and same with the OP's) reminds me of what my sister-in-law used to do..... To wit:

Sis-in-law was infertile. She criticized everyone in our family (me and my siblings) and everyone in her own siblingdom....telling all of us how bad we were raising children. She, of course, knows that she would do better!

Her brother, finally fed up, said, "TS, you don't know what you are talking about! You don't know what it is like to raise children, you don't have any!" (VERY valid point)

Her response: "Oh yeah! Remind me that I am infertile!" She then goes on a tirade and doesn't speak to anyone in her family for 4 years!

What her brother said was taken out of context and transformed into something he did NOT say. I think anyone here can see the ludicracy of her response.

Back to the thread:

1.) What was said: WHEN you have a family to raise, AND work full-time, AND housework, AND AND AND AND....YOU don't have the TIME that a young childless student who lives with mommy and daddy have! You have to learn better and faster. The AVERAGE student would not succeed.

Then there are the students with families and a husband who can pick up the slack. My hubby works 16-18 hr days out of state so I am a pseudo-single mom. So I don't have someone to pickup the slack.

2.) Reality is what reality is. The bills exist. They must be paid. I must work. Of course my employer knows that the company is #1 and I shouldn't think any other way. My children and their teachers (and others) all believe that I know my children are my #1 priority and I should drop everything for them. Then nursing school says they are #1. [stating facts here]

3.) As far as being "sexist"....Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. We don't think or behave the same way. It is what it is. You can deny it. You can say it isn't right. It won't change the reality of it.

4.) With the magnitude of everything a working parent in school has, they should be able to feel free to come to this board, vent and get support.

Yes, we KNEW that it would be harder for US than that young, childless student who lives at home. We CAN vent our frustrations.

As another thread began pointing out.... "ONLY in nursing school". (my input would be....)

Only in NS are you required to take these classes in this term. (No part-time options to do it at your own pace.)

Only in NS is a 79 an F, a 92.9 a B.

Only in NS are you required to perform so many hours of community service per class.

Only in NS are you required to go to lab 15 hours outside of class/lab time.

Only in NS are you required to take 2 finals. (1 final exam, 1 HESI)

Only in NS are you expected to learn 15 - 20 chapters for 1 exam.

Only in NS do you have to go to the hospital after 5 PM to get your patient information, stay up most of the night doing a care plan and be at clinicals at 0630 the next day for a 12 hr shift.

Only in NS does 3 yrs = Associates and 5 yrs = Bachelors.

I have not found the material difficult. Getting the VOLUME done is where the challenge comes in.

So far I have been late to class only once. As I said, I am a computer programmer. We had a production problem one day and none of the dealerships could enter their sales. This had to be figured out and fixed NOW. Praise GOD that I had an understanding teacher. Also, many of my classmates who work are CNAs or LPNs. OUR teachers understand their obligation to their current profession. I feel for the OP who may not have such understanding instructors.

Nursing epitomizes this wonderful nugget:

"We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. "

So how about a little empathy for the OP? (Thought empathy was a pre-req for nursing!)

morningland · Oct 22, 2009

It's kinda shocking to see peoples attitudes. A lot of the posters with children complain like they were children themselves, what's up with that? Everyone knew what they were getting into in nursing school so why are people complaining? Look, you either save up money before school, take loans or government help or work and deal with it. It is not wise to work in nursing school... End of story. Many people do it and succeed and I respect that but they have taken a big risk in doing so. There are NO FREAKIN EXCUSES to being late... End of story man! I am just amazed at peoples outlooks towards school. I am 26, I have no children and I live with my parents but at least i take reaponsability for my actions. Nursing school has been in incredible challange for me as well but to complain about it just seems silly to me cause I have done what I needed to do to get ready and I stand accountable for my own actions