Nursing a Profession or Vocation?

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2011

Since CNAs and LVNs are an integral part of nursing, I personally have always factored them into discussions about the nursing profession.

merlee · Jun 30, 2011

For the most part, I think that people are referring to RNs only - especially those with degrees.

Although many CNAs may act professional they do not have educational credentials beyond a short course. LPNs have some education, but are still under the supervision of an RN.

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum.

noahsmama · Jul 1, 2011

Whenever the topic comes up, I always wonder why these labels are so important to people? Frankly, I couldn't care less which label is attached to it, it's still the same job.

KalipsoRed · Jul 1, 2011

I think that CNAs and LVNs are more the vocational area of nursing and ADN and BSN are the more 'professional' sectors of nursing.

Mostly because BSN/ADNs have college degrees AND are responsible for being able to do everything a CNA and LVN does plus registered nursing duties.

Anyway you go about it though, none of us get paid enough or the professional respect for what we do...I'm including CNAs and LVNs in that statement just to be clear.

GooeyRN, ADN, BSN, CNA, LPN, RN · Jul 1, 2011

I consider all 3 to be "professional", but the school I went to for the LPN was a vocational technical school.

miss81, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2011

Well the "V" in LVN stands for "vocational," so I'd assume it's a vocation. According to the Texas Practice Act RN's are "Professional Nurses" and LVN's are "Vocational Nurses." It defines the roles differently:

(2)“Professional nursing” means the performance of an act that requires substantial specialized judgment and skill, the proper performance of which is based on knowledge and application of the principles of biological, physical, and social science as acquired by a completed course in an approved school of professional nursing. The term does not include acts of medical diagnosis or the prescription of therapeutic or corrective measures. Professional nursing involves:

(A) the observation, assessment, intervention, evaluation, rehabilitation, care and counsel, or health teachings of a person who is ill, injured, infirm, or experiencing a change in normal health processes;

(B)the maintenance of health or prevention of illness;

©the administration of a medication or treatment as ordered by a physician, podiatrist, or dentist;

(D) the supervision or teaching of nursing;

(E) the administration, supervision, and evaluation of nursing practices, policies, and procedures;

(F) the requesting, receiving, signing for, and distribution of prescription drug samples to patients at sites in which a registered nurse is authorized to sign prescription drug orders as provided by Subchapter B, Chapter 157;

(G) the performance of an act delegated by a physician under Section 157.052, 157.053, 157.054, 157.0541, 157.0542, 157.058, or 157.059; and

(H) the development of the nursing care plan.

(3) “Nurse” means a person required to be licensed under this chapter to engage in professional or vocational nursing.

(4)“Nursing” means professional or vocational nursing.

(5) “Vocational nursing” means a directed scope of nursing practice, including the performance of an act that requires specialized judgment and skill, the proper performance of which is based on knowledge and application of the principles of biological, physical, and social science as acquired by a completed course in an approved school of vocational nursing. The term does not include acts of medical diagnosis or the prescription of therapeutic or corrective measures. Vocational nursing involves:

(A) collecting data and performing focused nursing assessments of the health status of an individual;

(B)participating in the planning of the nursing care needs of an individual;

©participating in the development and modification of the nursing care plan;

(D) participating in health teaching and counseling to promote, attain, and maintain the optimum health level of an individual;

(E) assisting in the evaluation of an individual’s response to a nursing intervention and the identification of an individual’s needs; and

(F)engaging in other acts that require education and training, as prescribed by board rules and policies, commensurate with the nurse’s experience, continuing education, and demonstrated competency.

But to be serious, does it really matter who is called what??

kalevra, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2011

Well the "V" in LVN stands for "vocational," so I'd assume it's a vocation. According to the Texas Practice Act RN's are "Professional Nurses" and LVN's are "Vocational Nurses." It defines the roles differently:
(2)"Professional nursing" means the performance of an act that requires substantial specialized judgment and skill, the proper performance of which is based on knowledge and application of the principles of biological, physical, and social science as acquired by a completed course in an approved school of professional nursing. The term does not include acts of medical diagnosis or the prescription of therapeutic or corrective measures. Professional nursing involves:

(A) the observation, assessment, intervention, evaluation, rehabilitation, care and counsel, or health teachings of a person who is ill, injured, infirm, or experiencing a change in normal health processes;

(B)the maintenance of health or prevention of illness;

©the administration of a medication or treatment as ordered by a physician, podiatrist, or dentist;

(D) the supervision or teaching of nursing;

(E) the administration, supervision, and evaluation of nursing practices, policies, and procedures;

(F) the requesting, receiving, signing for, and distribution of prescription drug samples to patients at sites in which a registered nurse is authorized to sign prescription drug orders as provided by Subchapter B, Chapter 157;

(G) the performance of an act delegated by a physician under Section 157.052, 157.053, 157.054, 157.0541, 157.0542, 157.058, or 157.059; and

(H) the development of the nursing care plan.

(3) "Nurse" means a person required to be licensed under this chapter to engage in professional or vocational nursing.

(4)"Nursing" means professional or vocational nursing.

(5) "Vocational nursing" means a directed scope of nursing practice, including the performance of an act that requires specialized judgment and skill, the proper performance of which is based on knowledge and application of the principles of biological, physical, and social science as acquired by a completed course in an approved school of vocational nursing. The term does not include acts of medical diagnosis or the prescription of therapeutic or corrective measures. Vocational nursing involves:

(A) collecting data and performing focused nursing assessments of the health status of an individual;

(B)participating in the planning of the nursing care needs of an individual;

©participating in the development and modification of the nursing care plan;

(D) participating in health teaching and counseling to promote, attain, and maintain the optimum health level of an individual;

(E) assisting in the evaluation of an individual's response to a nursing intervention and the identification of an individual's needs; and

(F)engaging in other acts that require education and training, as prescribed by board rules and policies, commensurate with the nurse's experience, continuing education, and demonstrated competency.
But to be serious, does it really matter who is called what??

It does to me at the moment, instructor wanted us to think about the idea of nursing as a profession and does that include LVN and CNA. Im leaning towards a seperation between professional for RN and above and vocational for LVN and below.

allnurses Guide · Jul 1, 2011

i don't think there is a right answer to that question, mainly because it appears there is not a consensus among nurses themselves over the issue and a driving force to define it once and then hopefully have those outside the profession understand it as well.

you can look at all 50 state scopes of practice, and then look at how and where lpns and lvns actually work and what they do. there is a surprisingly wide variation.

i would like to think that an lvn/or lpn where you would be "practical nurse" have more in common with an rn than with a cna, but there are some d*mn good cnas who feel they are a "professional" and i would agree with that.

i see the horizon getting brighter anyway as people are paying a lot more attention to the particulars of how we move forward to a single-entry requirement there is a shift in the powers that be inclined to view all of us as on the same trail and actively devising ways to facilitate all of us fulfilling our potential through streamlined career tracks to avoid the time wasting and confusion that exists at present.

kalevra if this is an assignment i think the answer you gave above is the one to use because you need to answer with what they think the right answer is

ICU, RN, BSN, B.S. · Jul 1, 2011

I consider RNs to be a part of a profession. We have careers. Not jobs. We (well you should be at least) are constantly reading up on new up to date procedures, new medications, reading journal articles to keep up with the fast pace growing of the healthcare field. We don't just show up. We are always learning. Continue to practice evidence-based care. We have to keep up with CEs. We are a profession. Damn proud of it too! :)

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Jul 1, 2011

I think that CNAs and LVNs are more the vocational area of nursing and ADN and BSN are the more 'professional' sectors of nursing. Mostly because BSN/ADNs have college degrees AND are responsible for being able to do everything a CNA and LVN does plus registered nursing duties.

Not all LPNs/LVNs attend trade schools. Some LPNs have earned associate of applied science degrees (AAS) in practical nursing. Take a look at some of the practical nursing degree plans at various colleges and universities. The coursework looks challenging.

http://www.dctc.edu/future-students/programs/degrees/practical-nursing.cfm

http://www.saintpaul.edu/programs/GuideSheets%20%20HlthSvc/Practical%20Nursing%20AAS.pdf

http://www.minnesota.edu/programs_majors.php?prog_code=460

https://northseattle.edu/career/degrees/practical-nursing-aas-degree

http://catalog.gsc.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=2&poid=161&returnto=10

Fiona59 · Jul 1, 2011

For the most part, I think that people are referring to RNs only - especially those with degrees.
Although many CNAs may act professional they do not have educational credentials beyond a short course. LPNs have some education, but are still under the supervision of an RN.
This topic has been discussed ad nauseum.

Practical Nurses in my province are required to have 2+ years of college education to be permitted to write the national exam. I believe that in many US States, two years is the same length of education/training that an RN student completes.

We work under our own practice permit and are only supervised by a Charge Nurse, just like the RNs we work alongside.

Here's a link to my professional College. LPNs were the first group of HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS to administered under my provinces new set of regulations.

http://clpna.com/AboutCLPNA/VisionMissionMandate/tabid/57/Default.aspx

"some education"? I work with LPNs with multiple degrees in other areas of study.

The topic has been discussed to death, I agree. But many posters still have the same blinkers on.