Nursing positions deeply embedded in science

[DGabe24]

Hey everyone,

So after scouring the internet and as much of AN forums as I possibly could, to no avail, I've come to you all with a question.

I currently have my BS in Biology and work in an andrology lab at a major reproductive medicine. I've been considering two routes. One is to pursue a Masters in Science concentrating on genomics or neuroscience, and going on to do research in industry. Two is to matriculate into one of the ABSN programs I was accepted to and be an RN in an ICU (ideally).

I enjoy them both for very very different reasons, and these reasons admittedly may appear to be naive and ignorant to some, so do not hesitate to correct me.

The research provides the deep intellectual stimulation that I seek, answering the "why" I so often ask myself in my head. Genetics and neurology have been passions of my since undergrad. The downside is often times the day to day tasks in research are extremely mundane, and this raises a quality of life issue in my book.

The RN side has the awesome patient care everyone is aware of, and I am extremely excited about this. On top of that, the extensive knowledge of the human body and its intricasies can only help one become more competent and efficient at providing quality care as well.

So I pose this question to you all. Are there any fields in nursing that eventually bring you deeper into the science of a certain field? Requiring you know the pathophysiology of certain diseases, etc. etc.? I know research nursing requires you to know the protocol, and the study in its entirety, but I mean delve really deeper into the science and literature.

Thanks for your time, and looking forward to hearing any insights you may have to offer!

-Dave

[DGabe24]

Are most doctors' jobs even that "scientifically stimulating"?

Perhaps not scientifically stimulating, and just like any other job, I'm sure MDs have their inevitably monotonous days as well. The sheer intellectual challenge can be definitely far beyond the call of most other jobs though.

I understand your point Saucony, but perhaps I am not being clear enough. It is a bit tough to fully explain my thoughts and motivations, so it is of no fault of your own. I definitely do not have the grades to go straight into a PhD in neuroscience program, I've already contacted a few schools. I can get an MSc and concentrate in neuro, get some experience, and then apply. However to make $40k roughly until I'm 33 and then perform experiments for other people until I become PI....makes me realize that perhaps it is the outcome of the research in these sciences that I have a passion for , more than the application. As a CRNA or NP, it may not be the "mental stimulation" that we have been constantly alluding too, but I do feel it will most definitely allow me to push my own limits and boundaries which is something I am striving for, first and foremost.

I understand your point, but your post leads me to believe that I have not adequately portrayed my interest in being a caregiver for others. I have always been known as a "sensitive" and "empathetic" guy, and although these traits can often be a weakness, I can only imagine the human interaction in an ICU is something truly intimate and memorable. Of course you have your boneheads that you cannot wait to forget, but any job will have its ups and downs.

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

I understand your point, but your post leads me to believe that I have not adequately portrayed my interest in being a caregiver for others. I have always been known as a "sensitive" and "empathetic" guy, and although these traits can often be a weakness, I can only imagine the human interaction in an ICU is something truly intimate and memorable. Of course you have your boneheads that you cannot wait to forget, but any job will have its ups and downs.

ICU jobs can be hard to get out of nursing school. Hell, hospital jobs can be hard to get for many new grads if you can find a job at all. You seem to realize that if CRNA is your ultimate goal (not certain why you don't just go to PA school unless your grades really aren't up to par -- in which case you'll have trouble getting into CRNA/NP school as well), you have to do your time in a high acuity ICU and not in an alternative nursing job. So, you're perhaps looking at 1-2 years of tele/ms, 2 years minimum in the ICU, and then CRNA school. Those "short lived" bedside nursing years will seem very, very long indeed if you don't find some enjoyment in the process.

re. the unusual nursing positions like research, informatics, etc. I have my own desperate desire to get out of bedside nursing and into something that feeds into my nerdiness...but almost of these positions require, at the minimum, two years of bedside nursing. These are generally NOT positions that are given to new grads. And the positions themselves are scarce -- certainly less populated than bedside nursing jobs in acute/ltc/home health. The reality is that there are other options out there, but you have to put your time in first, network, etc. And you may still not get the job.

[DGabe24]

My one friend is in ICU in a major hospital in NJ, and another over in neonatal ICU in Pennsylvania. They both said knowing me, how I would present myself in an interview, and being a male nurse with good grades and healthcare experience I will basically be able to pick where I want to work. Both went right into ICU after graduating. This forum had me pretty discouraged from reading a lot of the disgruntled posts of people not finding jobs, etc. etc. but the real world anecdotal feedback seems to be quite the contrary, so thatss a good thing. Not that I"m that positive I'll get a job, I just mean there's a decent possibility of it happening.

I can't go straight into PA school cause of a 2.9gpa and a measly 1100ish GRE. At least after the ABSN program I can show them more recent grades that present a more accurate assessment of my current focus and dedication to my career. These grades + experience will give me a much better shot of getting into an NP/CRNA program. The program I'm going to has early assurance into any of their MSN programs (including CRNA), so it is quite in fact much more favorable for me than if I were to try and go to PA school.

[sauconyrunner]

From what I am reading, you had a lackluster performance in school, and then bombed the GRE. You can not enter a PhD program, nor can you enter PA school... So, it looks as if you are looking to use Nursing as a different route to get where you want to go. This is OK, and seems to me a lot more logical than trying to make nursing sound like some sort of deep dive into science.

I think you should shadow one of your friend in the ICU, because I'm not really sure that you understand what it means to be a nurse.

I understand your point, but your post leads me to believe that I have not adequately portrayed my interest in being a caregiver for others. I have always been known as a "sensitive" and "empathetic" guy, and although these traits can often be a weakness, I can only imagine the human interaction in an ICU is something truly intimate and memorable. Of course you have your boneheads that you cannot wait to forget, but any job will have its ups and downs.

in an ICU, your patients are sedated, unless you are working in some sort of very low level ICU. They are on vents and really after this experience, patients that survive usually admit to very little memory of the ICU. You are not really going to have intimate or memorable conversations with your patients, MAYBE with their families, if they have family, and the family wants to have "intimate/memorable" conversations with you. Oddly, not every family member really wants a lot to do with their family members nurse.

I don't think you have a good handle on what the job entails, what qualities are important. (sensitivity would be last on my list.) and what actually goes on. So spending some time as a "shadow" in an ICU would really benefit you. It's clear to me that you really are not that interested in being a bedside nurse and that you are thinking of this as a stepping stone. I hope your grades are better in your nursing program, and that you can progress towards your goals.

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[DGabe24]

Well thank you for sugar coating your opinion, as it really doesnt do me any favors. While it's a bit frustrating to read, I think you are spot on. I was just too immature and unfocused during undergrad and I'm paying the price now. I've developed into a very focused and driven individual, and I'm trying to make up for lingering poor performances.

I dont have much interest in PA school, and it was never really in the picture to begin with.

I agree that I am unfortunately seeing bedside nursing as a bit of a stepping stone, and as much I as I want to admit that its terrible to view it that way, its just the cold truth. That fact alone is what makes me realize perhaps nursing isnt for me. If the very core of a career is being viewed a stepping stone, that definitely raises a red flag to me. Thank you for that Saucony.

Anyways, at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is, reading about genetics and neuroscience is the type of stuff I like to do for fun, and I'd do for free if I could survive financially somehow. So I think I''ll go for a masters in science while I work, and then use those grades to hopefully launch me into a nice career, or open a window for entry to a phd program possibly.

Thank you all for your thoughts and considerations. Taking the time to help me smooth things out in my own head speaks volumes as to the type of individuals that go into nursing, and this community right here exemplifies just that.

[Tragically Hip]

I see bedside nursing as analagous to being a commercial airline pilot (and given the economics of the airline industry, salaries are converging). An airline pilot may have an interest in aviation science and aeronautical engineering, but for the most part, flying an airplane is a routine endeavor. A pilot's extensive training really comes into play during unusual and emergency situations, but short of a grave equipment malfunction or accident, the pilot still operates within the airline's and equipment manufacturers' protocol. He programs his navigation computer with coordinates for route he will take, and he has very little latitude on how high or in which direction he flies. The air traffic controller has the last word on that. He might have more flexibility if he's over the middle of the ocean (as a home care nurse has outside of a clinic), but he's still restricted by the other aircraft around him.

It's not a perfect analogy. A pilot doesn't have the frequent and intimate interaction with his customers that a nurse has. His copilot can make the PA announcements. During an emergency, a pilot has to exercise frank leadership, though during a code, so does a nurse. Most of the time on the job, a pilot is seated, whereas a nurse is running around.

Flying an airplane has a high-tech adventure factor that bedside nursing may lack, but I'm not sure that it would hold the interest of of a research-oriented science nerd. And yet, there are a lot of people with technical backgrounds flying airplanes. With nursing that is less the case, though it may have much more to do with cultural traditions, and because of that, the personality types that are attracted to nursing as a career. In fact, it's not likely that you'll hang around the nursing station and discus Higgs bosons and Feynmann diagrams.

ISFJ (nurturer) and ESFJ (provider) personality types seem to be attracted to nursing. You sound more like an INTP (architect/designer/theorizer) or ENTP (inventor/explorer). In other words, a scientist or engineer.

[DGabe24]

Ah Higgs Boson, amazing stuff! Another particle is the Kaion (not sure if you're interested in particle physics), a fun read if you get a sec.

I agree though, at the end of the day nursing is a "safe" investment to me, and I've always believed in taking risks and making sacrifices to achieve anything worthwhile in life. I don't have posters of great scientists in my room just so I can ignore my passion.

Very interesting personality types explanation, and your analogy made quite a bit of sense to me. This is simply confirming what I am beginning to realize in my heart of hearts, that this may not be the road of least resistance, but perhaps the one of happiness and fulfillment.

[Tragically Hip]

You're either talking about potassium ion or the K meson. I've studied a lot of physics, but not enough chemistry (I'd love to complete the organic chem sequence....maybe some day).

As has been said, there are a lot of possibilities beyond beside nursing in a medical ward, but the ones that you'll find desirable generally require a year or two of bedside (or equivalent?) experience. You might be interested in something like infectious disease control, epidemiology, or public health.

[BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN]

I think sauconyrunner pretty much summed it up. Based on your OP, I'd have said I don't think nursing is for you, but as more information came to light it seems you have no choice but to use it as a stepping stone to what you really want. As much as it disappoints me that my profession permits mediocre students to use this option, I can't blame people for taking advantage of it. It sounds like the plan you have regarding Drexel is sound, and in your shoes that is probably what I would do. Good luck.

[RURN2O11]

I don't think there's anything wrong w/ seeing bedside nursing as a stepping stone to something else. I have always viewed it that way myself. During nursing school I sometimes worried that I wouldn't actually like bedside nursing & that all my hard work would be in vain b/c I wouldn't actually enjoy the fruit of it. Well, I'm very happy to report that all such worries were unfounded. As it turns out, I love bedside nursing! Do I want to do it forever? Absolutely not. But that does not in any way diminish my satisfaction w/ my current career. Shadowing one of your friends in the ICU certainly would be a great way to see first-hand what being an RN is like just to make sure you're on the right track. If that experience appeals to you then I say go for it!

[sauconyrunner]

yes, I'm not known for sugar coating anything...and yet I'm very successful as a Reg. Nurse.

I just want to make it clear that I am not discouraging you, mostly I am encouraging you to be honest with yourself. I went into nursing myself for several things: Steady employment, decent pay, flexible hours and flexibility in where I could live. I was a very good student and could have actually applied to Medical School, etc. (I love Virology, nerdy but true, so I had a second major- Bio) After looking at the work that it entailed, I decided that nursing would suit me fine, and it has treated me quite well. I was a bedside nurse for 11 years and recently transitioned into a non-clinical role. I've done more than I could have hoped for as a Nurse.

There is nothing wrong with using Nursing as a stepping stone, I do think that as you make plans in life it helps to be 100% honest with yourself so that you are clear on what you hope to get out of a nursing degree and career.

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

From what i've gathered many if the nurses who work for the CDC, WHO, and NIH have science heavy jobs, especially with the CDC, a good but if them have PhDs and do scientific research.