I'm a freshman in college with a major in nursing. I'm also taking pre med requirements so I can hopefully jump into Med school right after or perhaps with a gap year. There is this hugeeeeeee stigma against it and my nursing advisers know very little about it, and the pre health office knows pretty much nothing when it comes to nursing students.
I know it's super tough, but has anyone done nursing w/ pre med? Or went to med school after/is in med school or is a prv nurse now doctor? Any expierence you went through or if you've known someone or any insight really on it would be super helpful.
Why don't you go pre med and then apply to an ABSN program or two in addition med school? That way you still have a bit of a safety net?
I'm actually in a 5 year dual degree program (traditional 2 year BSN after 3 years of gen eds, bio degree, and pre reqs) and if I decided I wanted to go to med school Id still have an additional years worth of classes to take, even with the bio degree.
Why don't you go pre med and then apply to an ABSN program or two in addition med school? That way you still have a bit of a safety net?
I'm actually in a 5 year dual degree program (traditional 2 year BSN after 3 years of gen eds, bio degree, and pre reqs) and if I decided I wanted to go to med school Id still have an additional years worth of classes to take, even with the bio degree.
I was actually thinking of apply to an ABSN program, but everyone I've looked at so far requires either a 4 yr degree in something first, or they require you to take a year at the school before applying and even then that doesn't guarantee acceptance. The one at Rutgers requires you to prv hold a 4 yr degree. Or they require you to apply into it before hand (like during your senior yr)
For pre med I'm just taking 2 bios (outside nursing), 2 chems, 2 orgos, 2 physics, and I've finished my 2 maths up to Calc. Our 2 last semester are only 15 and 12 credits each so I'll try to get zoology in their, but other than that I can take all the pre med classes in Summer except two so I would still be able to graduate on time w/out taking a course overload every semester and be able to sign up for the MCATS in junior yr or the Summer after it.
You are a entering as a freshman correct? You may say "I'll just take 2 orgos" and "if I see my grades slip I'll stop" but both are easier said than done even for the brightest and best. It may be too late for you to catch yourself. That gpa damage is hard to repair plus time and money wasted.
What do you really want to do?
You will end up having no experience in the field. Start talking to nurses. That's what I spent this morning doing, talking to seasoned nurses about job availability. Since 2001 the hiring has been on a decline from what I was told. The school you go to isn't considered much. The experience you have is.
Well I know how you feel though that's why I'm replying in this thread because I wanted a second major in my case but it isn't going to help me and I can always take the needed chem classes after I grad, if I wanted to move away from nursing.
I agree I may be undermining the simplicity of it, but I was going to take orgo I & II (not the coming one) b/c there's pretty much no way I could keep y nursing gpa the same w/out having to put more time in for orgo. the 2 bios would be taken during my sophomore year ideally in the spaces of courses I already took.
But srsly thank you to everyone I mean it's definitely not what I wanted to here, but I don't think I've come across anyone irl or anyone who even knows someone who did nursing w/ pre med at the same time in a traditional BSN program. Most nurses from what I've got go back to do pre med and apply a year or two later. So I've started looking into post-bacc premedical programs. It's no longer than 2 years and I won't risk my gpa falling and end up hating both nursing and pre med both b/c it'll be too much. And one bad semester could really damage me. It will definitely give me time to decide if going for an MD is really what I want or if I'd like to be a NP instead. And if I keep my gpa up perhaps I could get accepted to a post-bacc program that has guaranteed acceptance for med school give I get xxx on the MCATS.
Thanks again I think I'm starting to realize how like unrealistic it may be which is why it's not optimal to do it with pre med (which is why it's rare to here of anyone doing both at the same time). I definitely don't want to burn myself out either and I'll definitely have experience then in the medical field as an actual nurse before hopefully getting accepted to med school. Plus I rather have this wake up call now rather than waiting till summer putting an extra 6k down only to realize it's not really doable for me.
As a nurse who did pre-med this is why it is a bad idea:
1. Its the longest round about way to get to a goal
2. Almost none of the nursing pre-reqs count towards pre-med forcing you to use summers to take classes
3. Statistically nursing majors do the worst on the MCAT compared to any other major
4. Resentment from peers/nursing faculty
5. Lots of questions from med school ADCOMs that will be difficult to answer in med school interviews
The biggest hurdle for me was taking the classes in between working full-time nights. I literally would come home from shift, sleep 3 hours, go to class then immediately go back to work. It was pretty terrible because in these classes you need As not just a passing score. Getting an A in organic chem and physics while holding 2 night jobs just plain sucks. I took out a few classes during undergrad summers though.
Another big hurdle is the interview process. While this might not apply to all ADCOMs (med school admissions people), this one in particular told me they look at nurse applicants, especially new nurses with a lot of suspicion. The idea flip-lopping to a different career without even working as a nurse is disconcerting for them. If you switched so quickly from nursing what makes them believe you wouldn't just drop medicine as quickly. Their words not mine.
I get you are using nursing as a safety net, but admissions people aren't dumb and will see that too.
As a nurse who did pre-med this is why it is a bad idea:
1. It's the longest round about way to get to a goal
2. Almost none of the nursing pre-reqs count towards pre-med forcing you to use summers to take classes
3. Statistically nursing majors do the worst on the MCAT compared to any other major
4. Resentment from peers/nursing faculty
5. Lots of questions from med school ADCOMs that will be difficult to answer in med school interviews
The biggest hurdle for me was taking the classes in between working full-time nights. I literally would come home from shift, sleep 3 hours, go to class then immediately go back to work. It was pretty terrible because in these classes you need As not just a passing score. Getting an A in organic chem and physics while holding 2 night jobs just plain sucks. I took out a few classes during undergrad summers though.
Another big hurdle is the interview process. While this might not apply to all ADCOMs (med school admissions people), this one in particular told me they look at nurse applicants, especially new nurses with a lot of suspicion. The idea flip-lopping to a different career without even working as a nurse is disconcerting for them. If you switched so quickly from nursing what makes them believe you wouldn't just drop medicine as quickly. Their words not mine.
Are talking about post-bacc programs? Or majoring in nursing w/ pre med simultaneously?
I'm aware of the undergrad hurdles (almost all of them u mentioned :/), but I'm not sure which program you're specifically speaking of.
If I decide on the post bacc Im not going to take any pre med requirements b/c it's far too much money and working part time atm doesn't cover it all, so would it look different if I had no pre med requirements and got in a post bacc program that had a high med school acceptance rates (specifically the post bacc programs for occupation changes like Groucher, JHU, Columbia which are pretty prestigious but it would be what I was aiming for)?
I think new college students should explore I just hated to see you set up for maybe not the best shot you were thinking, since you had no experience with taking these classes yet, and so many come to Allnurses with a sad story about not passing. Learn from them! We're all individual but some things are better heeded than others.
I think lots of you don't understand that pre-med is not a double major, it comes under a concentration.
I know it's not a major. However, there are other majors that cover the requirements for med school better than nursing. There are other majors that are less likely to drop your GPA or be as difficult to complete. Nursing won't give you an advantage for med school unless you're looking to complete it overseas. You will probably not be able to work during med school or work in a nursing role. Also, nursing schools aren't exactly accommodating for students. A lot of people don't even get an option to pick when they should do clinicals so juggling 19 credit hours? Maybe but you will find difficulty. I took a full course load of 20 or 22 semester credit hours each semester and sometimes I was in school for about 30 to 35 hours since a 3 hour class may really be 3-4 hours lecture plus 8 hours clinical and a 4 hour lab plus 1 hour study session. Not to mention other science classes will have labs.
Quote
I already volunteer in the ER every week for the past 2 years and I work part time (IDK if this will help at a more professional job level though) and if next semester is anything like this one than I should definitely be able to do EMT shifts once a month and still have time to waste.
I don't think volunteering will really help you. The EMT may. I did paramedic school and nursing school for 1 semester overlapping and I can tell you it was hard to do. I couldn't work that time frame and it could involve me being in lecture for 12 hours, going to the hospital to research patients (time that wasn't counted), and then getting up by 5 am to go to clinical for 8 or 9 hours. I wouldn't have done this under normal circumstances.
Quote
And I volunteer randomly everywhere just because so I personally don't think I'll be missing out on volunteering hours (just in the ER I get close to 300 hrs a year, but I'm not sure what is considered "a competitive number").
I know it also sounds bad but the nursing school I'm in has a graduating class of 20ish students and it's in the top 10% of nursing schools and it was super tough to get into. So I don't want to lose my spot if junior year comes around and I realize it's getting too big to handle. Also a BS in bio or in Chemistry or biochem, etc, any "pre-med majors" will definitely not lead to nay hospital jobs that deal with helping patients and nursing as an undergrad does, and the chances of getting accepted to med school is low, so I'd screw myself over that way as well.
You do realize that once you start med school you probably will not be working in a traditional job? Unless you plan on putting off med school for 2 or more years, you may have a hard time truly utilizing your nursing degree. You probably will not utilize your nursing degree fully. My friend volunteered and actually worked with low-income people in a internship capacity before med school. She did not provide healthcare however she helped coordinate care for people and worked with them closely. I have seen PA students work as an EMT one shift per month.
Quote
I'm sort of made the decision already, and if I see my GPA taking a dive I'll definitely save them for after nursing school to finish, but thank you all for your comments especially the ones with experience w/ pre med!
Yeah. I could tell that by your post. There was really no point in asking because your mind was made up to begin with. I don't know if you understand how difficult nursing school is compared to regular school. My sister's boyfriend who is a dentist does not get that nursing doesn't have the same mindframe as other health programs (he went to a very competitive dental school that is well-known nationally) where they fail you instead of putting you on a part-time program.
Nursing school also is not accommodating at all. Some schools do not offer online lectures like mine did. Some do not offer a choice of clinicals including weekend clinicals or afternoon clinicals. My school was pretty accommodating by letting us pick out of a selection of clinicals and lectures each semester (first come, first serve). There is a good chance you will find out that you have to be at X location on Wednesday and screw whatever classes you had planned for Wednesday. Or you may find out you have additional requirements not listed each semester. I had additional requirements like first semester had mandatory study sessions, mandatory skill testings, EKG class, health simulation classes, etc. I was dead tired for some of the classes.
I did meet an RN who was a flight RN and is now going overseas to do med school. Everyone congratulated him. He has some awesome experience. If med school is something down the line, I'd go this route. You can get great experience. If it is something immediate, I'd not go this route because you won't get the full potential RN experience.
I am in a MEPN program (master's entry program- its an RN and MSN program combined for those with a college degree in something other than nursing). My husband is a physician. I've worked in health care for years in clinical research, working closely with both physicians and RNs. It seems like everyone I know is one or the other!
My two cents: Medical schools do not care at all about your nursing degree. As a matter of fact, it will hurt rather than help your chances at admission. You mention that you'll have experience in the "medical field" - that is not how they will see it. Nursing and medicine are radically different fields. What helped my husband get into the top medical schools was an undergraduate degree in anthropology and public policy analysis. Why? Because med school applicants with Bio degrees are a dime a dozen. Med schools take it for granted that you should be good at science and score well on MCATS. That's the bare minimum. BUT - what else are you as a person? Can you think critically about other disciplines, particularly culture and policy, or even a foreign language and area studies? Diversity is HUGE. So is research experience! They care more about that than patient care experience. They are going to teach you clinical medicine - but they want to know what else you can do (keeping in mind that your science grades needs to be excellent as the bare minimum standard). Yep, it's a high bar. As a "safety" you could always apply to MEPN programs along with med school if you don't get in to med school.
Lastly - what do you actually want to do? Nursing involves hands-on care, and later you can do management and administration, infection control, etc. Lots of opportunities. Medical school differs according to specialty, but the cliff notes is you'll be learning differential diagnoses and the management of treatment. In nursing school you learn lots of assessment (but without the diagnosis). It's a personality thing - one is not better than the other. But, they are different! Decide which you prefer. And btw, you get PAID during medical internship and residency. You won't get rich (till you're an attending lol), but you do get paid! Keep it in mind!
I think some of you don't read the updated replies...
I actually officially dropped pre med as of yesterday (though really some tough love from yall helped). I was doing the pre med b/c i just didn't want to be in a situation where I robbed myself from a later opportunity, but by taking both I was robbing myself from having the opportunity of being a nurse or a doctor altogether. I know the course load and it's tough I just thought doing summer classes and a gap year would be doable, but I don't want my overall gpa to drop. and that too I'm not sure which I'll enjoy more the nursing model or medical model, but I do know I want to help people medically and actually be able to see them. If later on I feel like i like the medical model I can go back and get a post-bacc and it's a lot more realistic than what I was attempting to do.
And I know pre planning is great but I think I'm stressing too much and it's far better for me to take advantage of the opportunities I have right and have a higher gpa b/c I have a single focus. Thank you to everyone again :)
I can relate to you on so many levels. When I first started college I was in almost the exact same boat. I'd been drawn towards going to med school ever since I was a child but the uncertainty and applicant statistics scared the poop out of me as I got older. My family suggested (I.e. insisted) I would make an excellent nurse, which admittedly sounded like the best of both worlds: ridiculously higher acceptance rates and similar outcome, in terms of being able to provide direct patient care. Yet I couldn't shake the feeling I was giving up on my true calling (corny but true). I talked to advisors, nurses, and doctors and they ALL said the same exact thing, that (insane course load and "waste of time" getting nursing degree aside), nurses usually find it exceptionally difficult to transition into becoming doctors. They argued that on a conceptual basis, the too fields are so fundamentally different, that in order to be successful in med school, one must essentially block out everything that was crammed into their brains during years of nursing school, and start fresh.
I was still over here thinking "how MOST nurses respond to med school has nothing to do with ME and my success". So I also meticulously planned out exactly how I could make both work simultaneously and presented my plan to my family and counselors and felt so frustrated as if no one was listening to me or were all simply doubting my abilities (which only made me want to pursue it even more because that is who I am as a person lol). Alas, I admitted defeat (or what felt like it at the time) and made a deal with my grandmother (former nurse of 50+ years). Since i am still so young, have my whole life ahead to continue learning, and blah, blah, blah, etc. I would give nursing school my full devotion and if at any point after I still felt compelled, they would support my M.D. dreams even if I had to go to the Bahamas to get accepted lol.
So I here I am finishing up my first semester of nursing and there are three things i think are worth mentioning to you. First, it is seriously freaking difficult. Not that I'm struggling beyond reason, but am having to put in some serious work. Which, if former me was here reading this with my academic history in mind, I'd be rolling my eyes for a hundred years, but its true you really can't prepare to know what it entails until you're fully emersed in it. I know you said you have credit time available in the summer which is not the case for me, but I really can't imagine having to focus on much else (I do work also as a CNA very part-time) and the program is only going to get more consuming. COULD I accomplish both at the same time? Definitely. But looking at it from my current perspective, I'm glad I chose not to.
Next, I regretfully admit that I've switched sides and am beginning to understand what everyone was talking about and now believe my aptitude is better suited for nursing. Not to say this is or is not the case with you, but my point is that if you are still whole heatedly set on becoming a doctor you might really hate being a nurse and vis versa. It's hard to put into words, but to be so involved in the nitty gritty of your patients' care but will never be fully in control of the course it takes, for lack of better words, is where the personality differences seem to come into play.
Last, and I'm sure you've thought of this already, but I now have my sights set on becoming an ARNP. I'm, of course, partial to the possibility of working while in pursuit of my graduate degree(s) and accruing less debt long the way, but also made friends with an alumni of the program I'm in who is an ARNP and partner in gynecological oncology office but she also has hospital privileges, which I really love the idea of. I could still change my mind in the future but as of now I've almost fully let go of the lingering fear I won't be expressing my full potential if I don't try to go to med school.
So not really the advice you asked for, but food for thought from someone who has sorta, kinda lived it. Good luck with whatever choice you make. Trust your instincts (or in my case your grandmother's instincts for you) and you'll find where you need to be!
Lulu Belle, RN, EMT-B
229 Posts
Why don't you go pre med and then apply to an ABSN program or two in addition med school? That way you still have a bit of a safety net?
I'm actually in a 5 year dual degree program (traditional 2 year BSN after 3 years of gen eds, bio degree, and pre reqs) and if I decided I wanted to go to med school Id still have an additional years worth of classes to take, even with the bio degree.