Complicated background, should I go to nursing school?

CharlieFoxtrot · Jul 10, 2018

People do recover!! I think you guys are misjudging the OP. For people that have overcome addiction, this achievement means so much more to us. we are not willing to throw that all away, by stealing narcotics. Not only did we have to work just as hard, but we had our past in the way as a huge obstacle.

As someone who has worked in mental health, I definitely agree that recovery is possible in the MH/SA fields. A career in nursing is also possible, too, for many people who have had MH/SA issues, and their lived experience can be an asset.

That being said, a career RIGHT NOW may not be ideal. Being sufficiently grounded in one's recovery and having lived experience in recovery is important as there is a huge difference between having a couple month's recovery and years of recovery. One develops a more extensive set of recovery tools, develops healthy coping mechanisms, and is more likely to turn to positive supports than self-destructive habits.

Thus, my suggestion to go into peer work as a temporary alternative. It keeps OP in the health care field, but in a different capacity that is more supportive of recovery. If nurses swear by the watch-do-teach method of learning, so, too, can those in recovery: watching others live a fulfilling life in recovery, living that life, and teaching others how to do so can be helpful in furthering one's own recovery journey.

The peer worker at our CMHC was able to go to school while doing peer work, and their lived experience proved invaluable in their human services classes, and despite having issues with SA in the past, they were able to go on to become a very effective SA counselor, and, after a lot of study, a psych nurse working in a methadone treatment clinic. It was a long road for this individual, but it was possible.

NurseBlaq · Jul 10, 2018

People do recover!! and people that do recover have usually reached a point in their life where they would not go back to the madness for nothing. I can honestly say there isn't any thing in the hospital that can tempt me to go back to drugs. I have been drug free for 15 years. I think you guys are misjudging the OP. For people that have overcome addiction, this achievement means so much more to us. we are not willing to throw that all away, by stealing narcotics. Not only did we have to work just as hard, but we had our past in the way as a huge obstacle. You guys also have to realize that substance abuse is all the same, whether or not it is drugs or alcohol. many nurses are working with two duis, so her 2 drug offenses are really no different . and for the record I do know a recovering alcoholic that is a bartender, who is also putting herself through school. she hasn't had a drink in over 2 years. She just sits back and laughs at realizes she never wants to go back . I can be done. So in my opinion I think if this is something that she really wants and she can prove that she is rehabilitated, I say go for it.

I agree, I've seen it first hand from a family member. However, OP has not been far enough into recovery that it would be beneficial to her or patients right now. Don't think anyone said it's impossible just that OP doesn't appear to be in the clear now.

Ok , so I finally found this . looks like you only have to disclose convictions. It looks like one of your arrests might not have resulted in a conviction, I would definitely find out.
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She's on probation so yes, she was convicted of something. It's still required reporting of substance abuse issues or arrests/convictions for NCLEX if I recall. It could have changed because it's been over a decade but it was back then.

allnurses Guide · Jul 10, 2018

Absolutely recovery IS possible and there are many brilliantly wonderful nurses who have a past medical history of substance abuse and who continue with their healing and sobriety every day. However, the OP doesn't sound very stable and I think investing this much money without having reached a stable recovery yet is pretty ill advised. Get healthy first. THEN figure this out.

AngelKissed857, BSN, RN · Jul 10, 2018

There were a few people in my class with similar stories. First thing you need to do is get a copy of your record, so that you know exactly what you're looking at. Then see if you qualify for an expungement of your records. If so, apply immediately. It takes 6+ months for it to happen. Now that doesn't mean you don't have to report that stuff to the BRN, you do, But it goes a long way apparently if the charges have been deemed expungable by law enforcement. And you will be much better shape if you meet with an atty that specializes in BRN/RN representation. California is apparently one of the harshest with this kind of stuff, and I know several nurses with much worse than what you've described who were able to get licensed. They had a lot of hoops to jump through, and were very delayed in taking their NCKEX, but they are all RNs now.

Please don't let this stop you from following your dream. This sort of thing gives you opportunities to connect with patients that other nurses don't have, your future does not have to equal your past. Be proactive, get your ducks in a row, and tackle this head von. You'll be fine.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jul 10, 2018

And then there is another issue: Nursing schools very happy to take your money, but it doesn't mean you will pass the hospital's security screening to be permitted to work as a student in the institution. I worked with nurses as a facilitator in a nurses' support group and did eventually learn to "grade" folks on the degree of illness. OD'ing, IMHO, puts the OP more on the very sick end of the continuum. I wouldn't want nursing for my daughter if she had that history because unless you've actually been a nurse, you can't appreciate how it can hinder anyone trying to recover from a life-threatening disease (OP took it to that end). There's a big world out there with meaningful work that won't interfere with your personal safety. Yes, I saw the large majority of nurses re-integrate back into their work, but I saw others who decided to do something less emotionally challenging.

HopefulRN4144 · Jul 11, 2018

This is kind of tricky.

So, 1 year ago, the cops were called to your house and you were arrested. You spent the night in jail, and were released "pending further investigation." However, no action was taken after that. BUT, you were ARRESTED, you were taken to JAIL, you were FINGERPRINTED, and you spent the night in jail, so I would assume that you would have been charged.

Now, the "pending further investigation" is weird. Why would they arrest you, take you to jail, fingerprint, you and keep you there for the night, and then release you pending further investigation but then never follow-up? I mean, I know they take drunks to the drunk take, keep them there for the night until they sober up, and then send them on their way. So, I suppose it was something like that? It's just really confusing to me why they would release you "pending further investigation" but then nothing ever came of it after that? But, I'd say that's lucky so I'd take it!

Then, shortly after that occurred, you OD'd. The cops got called and you got a drug paraphernalia ticket. You weren't arrested - you just got the drug paraphernalia ticket - and you went to the hospital. And you say that there were a few court hearings and you got 2 years probation after showing proof of substance abuse treatment.

You don't know if you were charged? You attended court hearings. How did you not find out then what your charges were? They would announce your charges at the court hearing. You would have had to enter a plea of not guilty, guilty, or no contest. So, I don't understand how you can't know what your charges were? Even if you got a ticket for the drug paraphernalia, they still should have told you what the court hearings were for. Just for the future, IMO, NEVER go into a court room or anywhere for that matter and not understand completely why you are there and what is going on. This was your future, you really should have been aware of what was happening - what, if anything, you were being charged with, if you were entering a plea, what exactly they sentenced you with (probation or diversion), and what exactly the terms of that are. You should ALWAYS have all the information that you can get!!

If it was just a ticket and you weren't charged with anything, then I would think they would have instituted a fine, you would have paid it, and it would have been over with. But, the fact that you went to a few court hearings, and you are on probation makes it REALLY seem as though you were CHARGED and CONVICTED of something. As far as I know, you aren't put on probation without being convicted of something. But, I might be wrong. Now, it is totally possible that after you complete the probation and if you do so without having any issues or don't get in any more trouble during that time, they might clear your record. That happens sometimes with first time offenses - as long as it was your first offense, you follow the rules of your probation, and do everything as they say, then they clear it. But, it wasn't really your FIRST offense, since you had that call to your house before and were arrested and spent the night in jail. So, you can't really be sure if that was counted as your first offense or not.

BUT, I would say the FIRST thing you need to do is find out what your charges were, what, if anything, you were actually CONVICTED of, and go from there. If you were never actually CONVICTED of anything, then the whole thing could be moot.

I'm not sure if just actual convictions show up on background checks. I mean if you were charged with something, I guess it does show up, but then it would say you were not found guilty of it or whatever came of the charge - paid restitution, got a fine and paid it, probation, etc. but all that implies being convicted of something not being charged with something. Because if you get charged with something, and nothing comes of it, then aren't you not guilty? Unless you just got a ticket, and paid a fine. Then, that's different.

Anyways...then you say at the court hearings, you showed proof of substance abuse treatment, and they gave you 2 years of unsupervised probation.

Since you said in the beginning of your post, that the cops were called to your house by your mom was about 1 year ago you say at the time you sit for the NCLEX it will be approximately 5 years?

About 1 year ago (2017) is when the events occurred
You say right now you are 1 year away from finishing an Associate's in Health Sciences and have been planning on transferring to a 4-year BSN program, and you can't imagine anything worse than attending school for 2 years only to find out it was a complete waste. So, since the degree you are 1 year away from getting is in health sciences and since you say 2 years of school not 4, I assume that your classes transfer over and you will only need to complete 2 years of school to get your BSN. So, with the events being about 1 year ago and you being 1 year away from your Associate's in Health Sciences. Then, you do 2 years for your BSN.

By my calculations that's 4 years - 1 year ago + 1 year from now + 2 years. So, I don't know where you get the approximate 5 years, but you know the dates better than me. Anyways, on the nursing license application (at least in my state), it asks if you've ever used drugs that were not a prescription within the last 5 years, so you would have to say yes to that. If it's been MORE than 5 years, then you can say no.

Now, about what the charges might mean...

At my school, when we did our fingerprints for our background check (once we were accepted into the nursing program). When you get your fingerprints done (for whatever school you go to most likely and for the board of nursing when you want to get licensed) you get a fingerprint report that is from your state (department of justice) and federal (FBI).

When I got mine done, I had 2 CONVICTIONS. The state one details dates, what the original charge was, and what the final disposition was (if you were convicted or not). Then, the FBI report states whether you will meet the conditions of employment for nursing. Since I had those convictions, what came back was a "MAY NOT MEET" qualifications for licensing or employment. It stated that "Pursuant to federal law, this information cannot be released directly to your agency. The applicant can request this information by completing the FBI Request for Rapsheet form." So, I was contacted by my school and told that I had to fill out that form and request the FBI Rap Sheet (it always made me laugh that it was called that, but what else would it be called! Lol!), which I did. A while later they sent me the form, and I had to give it to the school. This FBI Rap Sheet gave more detail of my original 2 charges and what my 2 convictions were. The school then decided that my convictions were okay enough for them and I was accepted.

Now, my charges and convictions were NOT related to drugs in anyway. My school did have a rule about DRUG charges and convictions. Whether it was a misdemeanor or a felony, if it was a drug charge it was pretty much a no-go. Now, every school is different. So, all you can do is call the school you are considering going to and discuss it with them. They can give you details on what is an absolute no for them.

As for the BON...

In my state (and I think pretty much every other state), you can go to the BON website and find out what the "automatic bars" are in obtaining a license. This means that if you have pled guilty to, been convicted of, or has a judicial finding of guilty for ANY of the offenses listed you are automatically barred from getting a license. None of these include anything that you discussed, so I'm not going to list them all. But, you can look them up if you want.

It goes on to say, "The board may propose to deny an application, or place restrictions on a license granted, for a conviction of, a plea of guilty to, a judicial finding of guilt, a judicial finding of guilt resulting from a plea of no contest to, or a judicial finding of eligibility for intervention in lieu of conviction for the following:

Any crime that is not an absolute bar
A crime involving gross immorality or moral turpitude
A MISDEMEANOR DRUG LAW VIOLATION
A misdemeanor in the course of practice.

Now, what it is saying is that the board can either DENY your application or approve your application but place certain RESTRICTIONS on it if you were convicted of, found guilty of (whether or not you pled guilty or no contest), or they let you get intervention (like substance abuse treatment) rather than being convicted.

It then goes on to say that in regards to those 4 offenses, "THE BOARD IS UNABLE TO ADVISE OR GIVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER ABOUT THE EFFECT A CRIMINAL HISTORY WILL HAVE N THE ABILITY TO OBTAIN A NURSING LICENSE. THE BOARD DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE A DETERMINATION OR ADJUDICATION UNTIL AN APPLICATION HAS BEEN FILED."

"The board conducts a thorough investigation and considers a number of factors, including but not limited to: whether the applicant has made restitution, completed probation, and/or otherwise been rehabilitated; the age of the offense; the facts and circumstances underlying the offense; and the total number and pattern of offenses."

"Please also be advised that although the board may grant a license to an applicant who has a criminal offense history, an individual may be restricted from working in certain settings based on his/her criminal history due to federal and state laws, which require criminal records checks prior to employment in certain settings, and which may impose absolute or discretionary bars to employment in certain patient care settings, for example, in facilities or settings involving care provided to older adults, disabled adults, or children. Similarly, the board can NOT answer questions regarding one's eligibility to attend nursing school or participate in clinical instruction. Nursing programs vary in regard to enrollment criteria, so it is recommended that you contact the nursing program to determine whether you are eligible to enroll."

So, basically, they list those absolute bars, but other than that, they can't tell you one way or the other whether you would be approved for a license until you go to nursing school, graduate, and apply for your license. Which kind of stinks because by then you put all the money and effort into getting there and it might be for nothing.

So, my advice is to

1) FIND OUT WHAT YOUR ORIGINAL CHARGES WERE, FIND OUT WHAT, IF ANYTHING, YOU WERE CONVICTED OF.

2) If you were convicted of anything, see about getting your record expunged. You still have to state you have the charges on your nursing license application, but it would probably look better that the courts saw you were rehabilitated.

3) Call whatever nursing schools you're considering. If you were convicted of something, ask them what their rules are about admission with a criminal history and discuss your convictions with them and see if that would stop you from being admitted. If you can get your charges expunged, you could wait until that happens before applying for nursing school.

My best advice is to actually find out what your charge(s) were and what, if anything, you were convicted of! This all may be moot if you weren't actually convicted of anything!

NurseBlaq · Jul 11, 2018

This is kind of tricky.
So, 1 year ago, the cops were called to your house and you were arrested. You spent the night in jail, and were released "pending further investigation." However, no action was taken after that. BUT, you were ARRESTED, you were taken to JAIL, you were FINGERPRINTED, and you spent the night in jail, so I would assume that you would have been charged.
Now, the "pending further investigation" is weird. Why would they arrest you, take you to jail, fingerprint, you and keep you there for the night, and then release you pending further investigation but then never follow-up? I mean, I know they take drunks to the drunk take, keep them there for the night until they sober up, and then send them on their way. So, I suppose it was something like that? It's just really confusing to me why they would release you "pending further investigation" but then nothing ever came of it after that? But, I'd say that's lucky so I'd take it!
Then, shortly after that occurred, you OD'd. The cops got called and you got a drug paraphernalia ticket. You weren't arrested - you just got the drug paraphernalia ticket - and you went to the hospital. And you say that there were a few court hearings and you got 2 years probation after showing proof of substance abuse treatment.
You don't know if you were charged? You attended court hearings. How did you not find out then what your charges were? They would announce your charges at the court hearing. You would have had to enter a plea of not guilty, guilty, or no contest. So, I don't understand how you can't know what your charges were? Even if you got a ticket for the drug paraphernalia, they still should have told you what the court hearings were for. Just for the future, IMO, NEVER go into a court room or anywhere for that matter and not understand completely why you are there and what is going on. This was your future, you really should have been aware of what was happening - what, if anything, you were being charged with, if you were entering a plea, what exactly they sentenced you with (probation or diversion), and what exactly the terms of that are. You should ALWAYS have all the information that you can get!!
If it was just a ticket and you weren't charged with anything, then I would think they would have instituted a fine, you would have paid it, and it would have been over with. But, the fact that you went to a few court hearings, and you are on probation makes it REALLY seem as though you were CHARGED and CONVICTED of something. As far as I know, you aren't put on probation without being convicted of something. But, I might be wrong. Now, it is totally possible that after you complete the probation and if you do so without having any issues or don't get in any more trouble during that time, they might clear your record. That happens sometimes with first time offenses - as long as it was your first offense, you follow the rules of your probation, and do everything as they say, then they clear it. But, it wasn't really your FIRST offense, since you had that call to your house before and were arrested and spent the night in jail. So, you can't really be sure if that was counted as your first offense or not.
BUT, I would say the FIRST thing you need to do is find out what your charges were, what, if anything, you were actually CONVICTED of, and go from there. If you were never actually CONVICTED of anything, then the whole thing could be moot.
I'm not sure if just actual convictions show up on background checks. I mean if you were charged with something, I guess it does show up, but then it would say you were not found guilty of it or whatever came of the charge - paid restitution, got a fine and paid it, probation, etc. but all that implies being convicted of something not being charged with something. Because if you get charged with something, and nothing comes of it, then aren't you not guilty? Unless you just got a ticket, and paid a fine. Then, that's different.
Anyways...then you say at the court hearings, you showed proof of substance abuse treatment, and they gave you 2 years of unsupervised probation.
Since you said in the beginning of your post, that the cops were called to your house by your mom was about 1 year ago you say at the time you sit for the NCLEX it will be approximately 5 years?
About 1 year ago (2017) is when the events occurred
You say right now you are 1 year away from finishing an Associate's in Health Sciences and have been planning on transferring to a 4-year BSN program, and you can't imagine anything worse than attending school for 2 years only to find out it was a complete waste. So, since the degree you are 1 year away from getting is in health sciences and since you say 2 years of school not 4, I assume that your classes transfer over and you will only need to complete 2 years of school to get your BSN. So, with the events being about 1 year ago and you being 1 year away from your Associate's in Health Sciences. Then, you do 2 years for your BSN.
By my calculations that's 4 years - 1 year ago + 1 year from now + 2 years. So, I don't know where you get the approximate 5 years, but you know the dates better than me. Anyways, on the nursing license application (at least in my state), it asks if you've ever used drugs that were not a prescription within the last 5 years, so you would have to say yes to that. If it's been MORE than 5 years, then you can say no.
Now, about what the charges might mean...
At my school, when we did our fingerprints for our background check (once we were accepted into the nursing program). When you get your fingerprints done (for whatever school you go to most likely and for the board of nursing when you want to get licensed) you get a fingerprint report that is from your state (department of justice) and federal (FBI).
When I got mine done, I had 2 CONVICTIONS. The state one details dates, what the original charge was, and what the final disposition was (if you were convicted or not). Then, the FBI report states whether you will meet the conditions of employment for nursing. Since I had those convictions, what came back was a "MAY NOT MEET" qualifications for licensing or employment. It stated that "Pursuant to federal law, this information cannot be released directly to your agency. The applicant can request this information by completing the FBI Request for Rapsheet form." So, I was contacted by my school and told that I had to fill out that form and request the FBI Rap Sheet (it always made me laugh that it was called that, but what else would it be called! Lol!), which I did. A while later they sent me the form, and I had to give it to the school. This FBI Rap Sheet gave more detail of my original 2 charges and what my 2 convictions were. The school then decided that my convictions were okay enough for them and I was accepted.
Now, my charges and convictions were NOT related to drugs in anyway. My school did have a rule about DRUG charges and convictions. Whether it was a misdemeanor or a felony, if it was a drug charge it was pretty much a no-go. Now, every school is different. So, all you can do is call the school you are considering going to and discuss it with them. They can give you details on what is an absolute no for them.
As for the BON...
In my state (and I think pretty much every other state), you can go to the BON website and find out what the "automatic bars" are in obtaining a license. This means that if you have pled guilty to, been convicted of, or has a judicial finding of guilty for ANY of the offenses listed you are automatically barred from getting a license. None of these include anything that you discussed, so I'm not going to list them all. But, you can look them up if you want.
It goes on to say, "The board may propose to deny an application, or place restrictions on a license granted, for a conviction of, a plea of guilty to, a judicial finding of guilt, a judicial finding of guilt resulting from a plea of no contest to, or a judicial finding of eligibility for intervention in lieu of conviction for the following:
Any crime that is not an absolute bar
A crime involving gross immorality or moral turpitude
A MISDEMEANOR DRUG LAW VIOLATION
A misdemeanor in the course of practice.
Now, what it is saying is that the board can either DENY your application or approve your application but place certain RESTRICTIONS on it if you were convicted of, found guilty of (whether or not you pled guilty or no contest), or they let you get intervention (like substance abuse treatment) rather than being convicted.
It then goes on to say that in regards to those 4 offenses, "THE BOARD IS UNABLE TO ADVISE OR GIVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER ABOUT THE EFFECT A CRIMINAL HISTORY WILL HAVE N THE ABILITY TO OBTAIN A NURSING LICENSE. THE BOARD DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE A DETERMINATION OR ADJUDICATION UNTIL AN APPLICATION HAS BEEN FILED."
"The board conducts a thorough investigation and considers a number of factors, including but not limited to: whether the applicant has made restitution, completed probation, and/or otherwise been rehabilitated; the age of the offense; the facts and circumstances underlying the offense; and the total number and pattern of offenses."
"Please also be advised that although the board may grant a license to an applicant who has a criminal offense history, an individual may be restricted from working in certain settings based on his/her criminal history due to federal and state laws, which require criminal records checks prior to employment in certain settings, and which may impose absolute or discretionary bars to employment in certain patient care settings, for example, in facilities or settings involving care provided to older adults, disabled adults, or children. Similarly, the board can NOT answer questions regarding one's eligibility to attend nursing school or participate in clinical instruction. Nursing programs vary in regard to enrollment criteria, so it is recommended that you contact the nursing program to determine whether you are eligible to enroll."
So, basically, they list those absolute bars, but other than that, they can't tell you one way or the other whether you would be approved for a license until you go to nursing school, graduate, and apply for your license. Which kind of stinks because by then you put all the money and effort into getting there and it might be for nothing.
So, my advice is to
1) FIND OUT WHAT YOUR ORIGINAL CHARGES WERE, FIND OUT WHAT, IF ANYTHING, YOU WERE CONVICTED OF.
2) If you were convicted of anything, see about getting your record expunged. You still have to state you have the charges on your nursing license application, but it would probably look better that the courts saw you were rehabilitated.
3) Call whatever nursing schools you're considering. If you were convicted of something, ask them what their rules are about admission with a criminal history and discuss your convictions with them and see if that would stop you from being admitted. If you can get your charges expunged, you could wait until that happens before applying for nursing school.
My best advice is to actually find out what your charge(s) were and what, if anything, you were convicted of! This all may be moot if you weren't actually convicted of anything!

Good informative post but I think OP knows exactly what the charges were, what the conviction was, why they're on probation, and what exact years there are. I'm also looking at the fact you don't qualify for financial aid due to any drug conviction. FAFSA asks that early and stops the form if you answer yes. OP also hasn't been back to answer any questions or clarify anything so who knows.

medsurgRNCali, ASN · Jul 11, 2018

I had drug convictions from 2002 and received fafsa the whole time I went to school.

HopefulRN4144 · Jul 11, 2018

Good informative post but I think OP knows exactly what the charges were, what the conviction was, why they're on probation, and what exact years there are. I'm also looking at the fact you don't qualify for financial aid due to any drug conviction. FAFSA asks that early and stops the form if you answer yes. OP also hasn't been back to answer any questions or clarify anything so who knows.

Thanks!...Yea, I figure the OP knows too. I mean, it'd be hard to defend someone who went to "a few court hearings" and had no idea what the charges and convictions were! But, I suppose it could happen! I agree with you about FASFA as well. Really, it seems like an uphill battle with drug charges! But yea, the OP hasn't been back - so either the OP didn't like what he/she was hearing or just doesn't care enough to respond and get the info he/she wanted!

Neats, BSN · Jul 11, 2018

I appreciate your honesty and here is my advice:

I would hire an attorney who can guide you with your goal of becoming a Licensed RN. Focus on the license.

You not only need to worry about the Board of Nursing but as a healthcare manager who hires licensed staff I am going to know your past as well and frankly although I try to be open minded when it comes to patient safety I will not tolerate any staff member placing patient safety in jeopardy. You past is very recent and by the time you complete school you will have a much better separation from where you were to where you are now. I would ask the attorney what I need to do based on the Board of Nursing policies/statutes and regulations.

Good Luck to you.

NurseBlaq · Jul 11, 2018

I had drug convictions from 2002 and received fafsa the whole time I went to school.

Did you mention that on your FAFSA? When my daughter was doing hers it was on the first page and said something to the effect of if you have a drug conviction stop because you don't qualify for federal financial aid.

Found this: Students who have a drug conviction should still complete the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA). Some students with a drug conviction are ineligible for federal student aid for a period of time and some are not.

So it depends on the situation.

Then there's this: Regaining Eligibility for Federal Student Aid

Students can regain eligibility before the end of the ineligibility period by successfully completing a qualified drug rehabilitation program or by passing two unannounced drug tests given by a qualified rehabilitation program.

https://www.edvisors.com/fafsa/eligibility/drug-convictions/

Trinity33 · Jul 13, 2018

In terms of a complicated past and going into Nursing... I have a niece that has come to me with an issue and would like to go to Nursing school but is not sure she can.. In high school her reputation was badly damaged as someone who sleeps around. Her parents made her wait at the bus stop and take the bus and kids spread a wrongful rumor that she was a prostitute. She has tried to follow a career in business but has had a ton of sexual harassment in the workplace that has followed her no matter where she works. She has tried to get help from employers she worked at but it is hard for them to identify the behaviors and they are often subtle and hard to prove. Do you think she can pursue a career in nursing if the business career did not work out for the reasons it did? Once others find out where she is working and what she is doing she is afraid she will be outcast as before. All I can think of is maybe she can do home care where she is then somewhat isolated from gossip in the workplace. Any thoughts?