canadian lpn not a "nurse"? - page 4
Hello all, let me begin by saying I am in the lpn program and loving it. The other day, I was told by a presently employed lpn that lpns are just NOT nurses. She firmly told me that the world... Read More
Nov 13, '06Occupation: hospital floor nurse. Specialty: acute care, rehab, palliative ; From: CA ; Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 7,264; Likes: 10,974You could be right.I am not up on all the different programs.In my RPN program IM are part of the program but they used to be special certification.:spin:
Nov 13, '06Occupation: hospital floor nurse. Specialty: acute care, rehab, palliative ; From: CA ; Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 7,264; Likes: 10,974Just curious...how long is the LPN program? RPN in Ontario and it is a lot longer that it used to be.
Nov 13, '06Occupation: Community Nurse Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,493; Likes: 93Found the following re. the LPN's scope of practise:
In the new legislation, which may come into force in the fall of 2002, LPNs with Basic Authorization will be able to continue to perform restricted activities that are within their current scope of practice, including:
• Administering subcutaneous injections
• Removing nasal pharyngeal suction catheters.
• Inserting and removing oral pharyngeal suction catheters.
• Inserting and removing urethral catheters.
• Inserting vaginal suppositories and ointments.
• Inserting vaginal catheters.
• Inserting rectal suppositories.
• Inserting devices for the purpose of administering medications or
solutions for the purpose of elimination.
• Removing nasal gastric tubes
• Inserting tubes for feeding.
• Inserting anticoagulant medication into established peripheral ports
• Administering diagnostic imaging contrast agents.
• Administering nitrous oxide as ordered, under supervision.
LPNs with Additional Authorization will be able to continue to perform all
activities requiring Basic Authorization plus:
• Starting intravenous lines
• Inserting nasal gastric tubes.
• Inserting or removing instruments, devices, fingers or hands beyond
the cartilaginous portion of the ear canal for the purpose of syringing
• Inserting or removing instruments, devices, fingers or hands beyond
the point in the nasal passages where they normally narrow.
LPNs with Advanced Authorization will be able to continue to perform all
activities requiring Basic Authorization and Additional Authorization plus:
• Removing a portion of a corn or callus in the performance of foot care
• Inserting sponges, irrigation and suction devices, mechanical
retractors or fingers as retractors into an incision, under supervision.
• Inserting anticoagulant medication into established central ports or
• Applying casts to set or reset a fracture, under the supervision of a
• Inserting and removing orthopedic devices, under the supervision of
an authorized practitioner.
The CLPNA has proposed new restricted activities that LPNs may perform:
(i) Intramuscular injections: LPNs who graduated after June 2001 are
proposed to be able to complete this restricted activity in the future with "Basic Authorization." LPNs who graduated prior to June 2001 will
require post-basic education.
(ii) Intradermal injections: a training program will be piloted in June 2002 for LPNs to complete this restricted activity as an "Advanced Authorization."
Reference: http://www.clpna.com/HPA.pdfLast edit by Jay-Jay on Nov 13, '06
Nov 13, '06Occupation: Community Nurse Joined: May '00; Posts: 2,493; Likes: 93Quote from loriangel14It is 2 years long (4 semesters).Just curious...how long is the LPN program? RPN in Ontario and it is a lot longer that it used to be.
I think it used to be a year and a half.
Nov 14, '06Specialty: 25 year(s) of experience ; Joined: May '06; Posts: 1,284; Likes: 770We don't have LPNs or LVNs in Quebec. We have registered nurses and registered nursing assistants. RNAs can or cannot give medications depending on the institution. In our Palliative care residence, the RNAs give narcotics and can do the narcotic count.
To be an RN here, it is a 3 year college diploma or a university degree. To be an RNA, it is a 2 year program offered at adult education in local high schools. The older RNAs graduated from hospital programs.
When I began working as an RN in the early 80s, their scope was much more limited. They couldn't insert bladder catheters, let alone give meds.
Nov 14, '06Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 8,603; Likes: 9,781JayJay that's the scope of practice in Alberta. Every province has a different scope. To through more mud into the water, every hospital in Alberta then decides which of the skills within our scope we can utilize.
I have the IV start credits but am not permitted by my employer to start an IV under any conditions as they have restricted it to an RN skill.
Just through it out there LPNs were the first to sign the Health Professions Act that is mentioned in the opening paragraph. Hence the title of our governing body "College of LPNs of Alberta", just as its the "College of Physicians and Surgeons", etc.
Nov 14, '06Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 8,603; Likes: 9,781Quote from loriangel14Many courses are being lengthened to include first year arts credits (English, Sociology, Psych). This is believed to help with the "diploma" status granted at the end of the course and to help facilitate entry into bridge programmes if that is the route a PN graduate wishes to pursue.There must be some fundamental differences betweenLPN and RPN.RPN now is 2.5 years .
Nov 14, '06Occupation: hospital floor nurse. Specialty: acute care, rehab, palliative ; From: CA ; Joined: Oct '04; Posts: 7,264; Likes: 10,974yeah I guess you are right.My course included those in the five semesters.
We had a representative from the rpn assoc. of Ontario speak to our class and she said that educating employers on the scope of practice for rpns is part of the rpnao duty.She said it takes much persuasion to get them to change policies regarding what they will allow us to do. I am still a student but I can imagine that would be frustrating to not be allowed to do something you were trained to do.
Dec 19, '06Specialty: Geriatrics, Med-Surg. ; Joined: Oct '06; Posts: 949; Likes: 379In Ontario RPN's are nurses and allowed to use that title. In regards to practicing within the full scope of RPN practice, it depends on where you work. Some hospital and LTC's are quite restrictive and others aren't. This may change with time as the shortage of RN's grows, but who knows. I know that at this point in time, many hospitals in Ontario are hiring mainly RN's but I think that you still get to use lots of skills in LTC's as the patients in them seem to be much older and sicker. JMO.
Dec 20, '06Occupation: RPN Specialty: LTC, Community ; Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 90; Likes: 5I live in Ontario and the RPN will be more commonplace in hospitals soon.
The floor I work on has 3 sister units... 2 are more critical care and hire RN's only and 1 is a geriatric unit and has RPN's. They are now hiring 8 new RPN's to float on all 3 units. So RPN's are starting to pop in places where it was normally RN's before.
I am in the RPN program and its 2 years... alot of the girls i work with said they only did one year...The school I am in is using the old 2 year RN program as the RPN program. So I am doing the program they did when it was only 2 yrs in length.
I have seen some incompetent nurses come out of our BScN program here with absolutely crap clinical skills and no bedside manner.
Jan 1, '07Occupation: staff nurse Specialty: 23 year(s) of experience in long term care and geriatrics ; Joined: Dec '06; Posts: 9Oh me! When I was in training in 1983 a working RNA (we were known as Registered nursing Assistants at that time--now RPN) asked me what in the world was I doing there and that they were "phasing out RNA's anyway" and I'd never "find a job". There is always somebody who knows everything. In fact there is one on every unit. I'm in my 24th year of nursing now and I've always been employed except when I took fourteen months off because I wanted to. You are a nurse! me_ewe
Jan 1, '07Specialty: Geriatrics, Med-Surg. ; Joined: Oct '06; Posts: 949; Likes: 379According to the CNO compendium, of which I have a copy at home, practical nurses and registered nurses are both allowed to use the title "nurse" in the province of Ontario. But we all know that there are many differing formal levels of qualifications in nursing but the public often just sees "nurse". I try to remember that what people remember is not what your badge says but how much you cared, which I do note is often a huge challenge in the many horrible work environments we have to endure as nurses. :spin:
Feb 2, '07Occupation: mom Joined: Jan '05; Posts: 134; Likes: 13BAH!
My worst memories of the LPN program I did are of some of the floor nurses (RN's and RPN's included) we ran into at clinical. It was shocking to go to school and learn to take everything so seriously, to watch absolutely everything you say and do, to try to be the most non-biased, non-judgemental person you could be, and then run into the jerks who A) treat you like a piece of dirt and act like they know everything but they're not going to tell you anything (how pathetic that you dont know where they keep X), B) like a slave while they take a break, and C) talk about you behind your back - even to your teacher instead of trying to help you or even confront you if you did something wrong!!!
Ahem. Sorry. Rant rant rant.