This is a VENTING Post! - page 3

Disclaimer: This is a venting post only and may very possibly irk/irritate/anger nursing students. Please don't post about how mean and unfair I am or how I don't understand how difficult it is to be... Read More

  1. by   scribblerpnp
    Of COURSE they are testing me! I know what I need to do, and am very comfortable doing it. I just need to go somewhere to complain about it!

    I am going to allow her to make-up the exam, but it will not be without consequences. She has lost 3 letter grades on whatever grade she makes at this point. Meaning if she gets a 100 on the exam, she really only gets a 70 (being late with the make-up, non-university excused absence, etc). And she will not get a 100. Make up exams suck because they are usually way more difficult than the original exam.
  2. by   mamason
    After reading this thread, I realized what my previous instructor's probably went through while teaching our classes. It's gotta be tough! My hat's off to you!:bowingpur
  3. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from scribblerrn
    Of COURSE they are testing me! I know what I need to do, and am very comfortable doing it. I just need to go somewhere to complain about it!

    I am going to allow her to make-up the exam, but it will not be without consequences. She has lost 3 letter grades on whatever grade she makes at this point. Meaning if she gets a 100 on the exam, she really only gets a 70 (being late with the make-up, non-university excused absence, etc). And she will not get a 100. Make up exams suck because they are usually way more difficult than the original exam.
    It's either complain or explode. lol
  4. by   Beary-nice
    I understand your frustration, and I am a student. The student needs to be responsible for his or her learning, you are there to guide and not spoon feed. Spoon feeding was going on constantly at the school I attend and I did not realize it until I came from another school and saw the difference. I couldn't believe what I saw. This year, the teaching methods have completely changed. We are to be responsible for our learning, our grade is what we put into it, and let me tell you, the ones there last year who were still being spoon fed are in a world of poo right now and I am not sure who will be left. Your education is what you put into it you needn't get out the fire torches here and I am on the other side of the fence....the student.
  5. by   TeachEmNursing
    Quote from scribblerrn
    Of COURSE they are testing me! I know what I need to do, and am very comfortable doing it. I just need to go somewhere to complain about it!

    I am going to allow her to make-up the exam, but it will not be without consequences. She has lost 3 letter grades on whatever grade she makes at this point. Meaning if she gets a 100 on the exam, she really only gets a 70 (being late with the make-up, non-university excused absence, etc). And she will not get a 100. Make up exams suck because they are usually way more difficult than the original exam.
    That is a great idea! I have had the same problem in the past and i am always told to just let the student retake with no consequences.
  6. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Quote from justjenny
    male (2) sleeps during class, does not participate unless required, is late for class, in clinicals is great-answers questions quickly and knows patient conditions, interventions, etc. you might think "he could be a great student if he only applied himself more" but he works 12-24 hr shifts as an emt (which is why he is quick with answering questions, etc.) he is declaring bankruptcy, only has one vehicle (can't get to class until he takes his wife to work) his teenage daughter was hospitalized for attempting suicide, etc. again, you would never know this because he doesn't complain or share what he is going through...never whines or just simply quiet and withdrawn (from exhaustion probably!)
    some of your worst students may just be people struggling with too much at one time...
    man, nurses need instruction in intraprofessional conflict resolution. obviously, he's telling someone, hence you were familiar with his conflicts, right? why not tell those [teachers] who can help in resolving the conflict? also, why is sharing a dilemma in crisis with those who are directly involved (instructors) vs. fellow classmates considered whining or complaining? i see nurses do this all the time at work, complain about this p&p or that p&p, staffing, etc. (usually with valid reason) to their fellow coworkers, yet they never present it to mgmt. go figure, it just doesn't make any sense. you can't effect change unless you're part of the solution, instructors no more than managers can read people's minds, ya know?

    Quote from justjenny

    i wanted to post to remind any educators reading this thread that they don't always know very much about their students and what they may be going through. i am not suggesting this is the case with your student but let me share the stories of two students i graduated with who are now excellent critical care rns....
    how can they know when the info's not given? it'd be like an instructor holding a student acct. for material that was never provided in reading assignment or lecture.

    oh well, i mean, i understand where you're comin' from, jenny. i totally have compassion when a person is struggling. i know sometimes it's difficult to share those struggles with others. it's just, i don't understand what's admirable about suffering in silence and then feeling like there's been a collapse in justice, you know?

    i also understand there are many times when you present conflicts to tbtb and it's received with inattention or even ingratitude. but here's the thing, if it is, why would you want to stay in that environment anyway? this is my thinking, if we can't advocate for ourselves and eachother, how the hell can we effectively advocate for our patients?

    just my thoughts, sorry for the ramble...:stone
  7. by   sloppy_joe
    I am nursing student and I can totally understand where you're coming from (and I think you're being totally fair) I'm in a BSN program (don't know a ton about how hard it is to get in an ADN program so i won't comment on that) but from my experience it was very difficult to get into my BSN program. If someone is in, they've proven they can handle it academically, the question is if they're willing to put forth the effort in their education. Obviously, there are 2 sides to every story and i don't want to totally rant on the student. However, college in itself is a job, and not coming prepared to work in the "real world" will eventually get you fired. Same w/ college, if you don't come prepared and don't do your work, you're going to see consequences. I can imagine that as an instructor who wants to see their students succede, this has got to be frustrating to you. Hopefully the student will see the error of his ways and will turn it around, before it's too late.
  8. by   greatshakes
    Let's look at this from the students perspective. I finally got through but I was on the hit list by many of the instructors and the other students all knew it too. I thought it might be an aging issue as I was probably the oldest when I started and definitely when I got through. I went well on some of my pracs and other pracs did not go as well. I opted out for a while, went to Arts and finished and then came back and re-did nursing. I was told I was taking the place of a younger person who might succeed. Ouch!! Also because I had a problem in one lab "You'd never forgive yourself if you killed someone." Yes they were tough instructors but some were magnificent. The latter were also wonderful prac facilitators who knew I would never stop trying. And yes one of them had to fail me in a prac and I still have tremendous respect for her. I did spend extra time practising in labs and told the faculty head they should never let anyone progress to the next level before they'd accomplished the one prior as I had been told in week 10 of one term that from week three I had been doing poorly. I asked why they had let me go so far without intervention and if they were setting me up to fail deliberately.? At one stage I was dreaming and just living pracs in my sleep because of nerves, I paced the floor at night, I cried and I tried harder, I think I tried too hard.
    However I did get there. One of the chief reasons was I could do obs and other skills at Clinical Prac but in the labs when being assessed I froze. It was the fear of assessment. Maybe your student has the same deep- rooted fear and all that he learns flies out of the window. Can you set aside
    an hour a week for him, (one of my lecturers did for me with IV therapy, God love her). He has to meet this appointment and concentrate. He may realise then just how serious the situation is and you'll know you've done everything. Good luck. I realise you have plenty to do but wouldn't it be fabulous if he made it just because you set him a strict agenda? Don't fail him yet. I have seen a lot of students bluff their way through just because they were a favourite of the instructor, they had harrowing home issu es etc and it is unfair. Keep us posted.You're obviously a caring person and the uni and nursing schools need more like you.
  9. by   StikTie
    I too was a college instructor. I was teaching my students the art, splendor and fanghood of the operating room environment. I had students that ranged in age from a very young 18 to a lively 53. I too had frustrations with at least two of my students. Being a very seasoned OR nurse for a great many years I am usually very direct, blunt but caring. The medical profession, no matter what facet you teeter on, is tough. Any student of the course really needs to understand to make the cut you better have more brains than brawn and more brawn than brass. We have standards. I try very hard to make my students understand this simple fact. There is a cannot omit or dilute the key ingredients or the result will be a fall instead of a rise. There are no 'short-cuts'. You simply meet the criteria...or you don't. The choice always lies in the hands of the student. We encourage and make ourselves available to our students...we send that transmission...some recieve and some don't. Some very simply put are not 'cut out' for this business. It doesn't mean they are stupid or some other degrading label. It just means that maybe they discover through the course of the journey they would be better suited to something else. Sometimes, we have to reassess our students in the same way we do our patients. Some improve and some don't. Maybe that student hasn't stopped long enough to ask himself if he really still wants this? Sometimes a DNR is a helpful thing to offer a student if all other attempts to revive him fail. Just like we give our patients options and let them make the informed decision for their best quality of life, we should also offer the same to our students. I would love to see all students enjoy the greatest of success, but let's face it we can't inspire those who want someone else to do the work for them or make it easier for them or allow them to think that someone will magically come along and save them from the fall. We can care, encourage, pray and teach...they have to do the learning. Take a break teach, you're doing your he needs to do his...
  10. by   91C_ARMYLPN
    Hi scribblerrn!

    My hats are off to you! It seems like you are fair, caring, and sincerely enjoy what you do. To take on new nursing students is definitely a big task at hand! One must have the patience of a saint as one person mentioned.
    It is one thing to have compassion and be supportive for the student. I do agree...we all have to held accountable and take responsibilty for what we do.

    I was a nursing instructor 6 years for the Army specializing in ICU. I taught both clinical and classroom to student LPN's. However, these students were already 6 months into the program, considered seniors, and the weak students washed out by then. My heart does go out to you. Sometimes, it can be frustrating.

    If the objectives are clearly stated, and the lesson plan reflects in the test that are being given, to include well prepared classroom instruction, etc. There is also academic counseling in which the student knows exactly where they surprises! Most students do well. No, it's not going to be easy. But, it's worth it. Please as an ex-instructor to another not compromise academic standards, "spoon feed", or turn your head the other way. There is a limit for everything. By the way, I really loved teaching!!! It was one of the best times in my entire nursing career.

    Take care!
    Last edit by 91C_ARMYLPN on Oct 18, '06
  11. by   ann945n
    Quote from Halinja
    Thank you!

    As a student I am so frustrated when I work hard, study hard, practice hard, and then someone breezes in that hasn't done the work/study/practice, fumbles around, puts on a sweet smile and trots out an excuse and gets passed on. There should be consequences for not doing the practice. I wouldn't want to be in the hospital and be the patient of someone who somehow got passed through a nursing program on smiles and excuses.

    So...Good Job! (and hopefully he'll try harder next time)
    I agree with Halinja, there is nothing more irritating as a student who gets A's and tries hard and then someone breezes through and gets to cut corners break rules and not put in the time. thanks for playing by the rules, your other students will love you for it!
  12. by   i_am_evergreen
    I am (or was) a fourth semester student. I understand how frustrating students can be. I just would appreciate some output about my situation from some teachers (even though anyone can pitch in).
    I was taking care of a pt. who the night shift nurse described as very uncooperative, rude, etc. When I went in to do his assessment, the patient denied me assessment of the triple lumen catheter which was at his right groin. I told the primary nurse I was working with and she also tried to do the assessment but was denied. We charted this.
    He had been complaining about his antibiotic med which was due. Either way, I got the IVPB prepared and go in with the instructor. I figured I could do by assessment of the TLC at that time, IF he didn't change his mind and deny. See I admit that I tend to be quiet (not necessarily with the patients, but I guess I get nervous around this specific teacher because of certain issues i've had with her). While I was setting up the equipment, my teacher got to the TLC before me and the pt. did not deny (obviously because we had to give the antibiotic). Well my teacher got very upset that I had not assessed the PICC line before (even though I explained her the situation).
    With the same patient... he had been cracking jokes throughout the shift... Before entering his room, i knocked and asked if i could come in- no answer. I opened the door and while i was opening the curtain, he said, "no don't come in." He had done this earlier in a joking manner, but quite soon i noticed that he wasn't joking cause he was going on and on about how he was ready to leave and mentioned some personal issues he had going on. The guy was mad and talking loud, but in no way was he threatening. Well my teacher got mad because I didn't walk out right away and assumed he was joking again and in the incident report stated that I went on into the room trying to administer the med.
    Now to me, these two situations totally contridict. When the patient who by the way was alert, awake, and oriented refused me to check the TLC at the time, my teacher stated that I was wrong to have not assessed; and then when I assumed he was joking and went it, she states that even if I had thought that the patient was joking, i should have walked out when I realized. Wouldn't that make the situation worse to leave while the patient is addressing his issues to you?
    I just want some opinions on this matter.
    Thanks alot.
  13. by   smk1
    As a student I feel for the times when things just don't seem to be "clicking"...but I can't understand not practicing. I admit when I don't feel ready to do something on a real patient and want a bit more time to practice, but for the most part adequate reading, studying and lab practice will get you ready to do a skill with a nurse present. As for lab check offs, I was in practicing for quite a few hours before our final skills check off last term. A thermometer is not a hard piece of equipment to learn, if I see one I don't know how to use, I fiddle around until I get it. Now I can see if it were a more complicated thing like some of the CBG machines or computerized medication administration items. Sometimes you forget which icon means what... but a thermometer?