Nursing Culture

arborguy · Jan 22, 2015

I get that students have asked for homework help. Why post if you have nothing to contribute. Move on. I graduated 16 years ago and intended on an adult discussion. A problem in nursing is cynical prudes.

joe007 · Jan 22, 2015

Nursing culture is interesting and defined from classic sex stereotypes and power relationships from the early 20th century.

roser13, ASN, RN · Jan 22, 2015

I get that students have asked for homework help. Why post if you have nothing to contribute. Move on. I graduated 16 years ago and intended on an adult discussion. A problem in nursing is cynical prudes.

Seriously, what are you hoping to gain from your post?

klone, MSN, RN · Jan 22, 2015

I may be cynical, but I'm not a prude. :)

markkuss · Jan 22, 2015

We live in times of stress, I get it. But even when students make new accounts just to ask stupid questions... Well, if they took the time to make an account maybe the question is not so stupid for THEM.

Times have changed, and while way back I'd spend a day in the library researching a topic, or a night with a chalk board trying to figure out how to solve a physics problem for an upcoming quiz, today challenges are different. Some teachers are less available to answer all questions. the schedules are busier. There's a greater need to work'n learn, and own a cellphone (or what not).

It's easy for us to say that ppl should be X or Y or Z, but recall your own experience when someone made time for you, or 'nicely' explained how such or other behavior was inappropriate.

While in RN school a few years back (change in careers for me) I was surprised to see that... mmm... +50% in a class of 30 had barely high-school knowledge of mathematics. and that, on the 2nd level of the program(!) many couldn't solve for X in "rule of 3" type problems.

(we did that in 3rd grade in my country. But, mind you, we had a much better incentive to learn how to do it: got it wrong? you were beaten by the teacher)

So for the above example, how do these guys can catch up? the prof is busy with the curriculum. every class has new stuff adding up. those students weren't as computer savvy as to google math helping websites to learn on their own... maybe they stumbled on allnurse. com and thought that birds of the same feather flock...

Which brings me to the topic of cliques and bullying. coz hey, it's Us, the Sourdoughs of the forum vs Them - the new, 1-2 posts members...

markkuss · Jan 22, 2015

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It's one thing that one or 2 people commented as they had about students being lazy. But to have folks, one after the other line up and say the same one-liner? sometimes twice?? really???

What happened to the 'Like' button? it stresses that One agrees with a specific post and saves One the trouble of restating the idea.

Let's recognize that sometimes we (myself including) just like pointing out others' inefficiencies to (maybe) feel better. Kick that innocent dog because the boss poked at us.

It also occurs to me that only ONE person apologized for having judged this wrong. So as OP has said, "Your responses alone have highlighted a cultural problem."

But i may be mistaking. I'll re-read the tread

Quote from arborguy

I get that students have asked for homework help. Why post if you have nothing to contribute. Move on. I graduated 16 years ago and intended on an adult discussion. A problem in nursing is cynical prudes.

8:54 pm by roser13

Seriously, what are you hoping to gain from your post?

arborguy · Jan 22, 2015

It's a discussion forum! We can all improve in this area, including myself. I am not in school, graduated in 1999. I intended this for intelligent discussion. I am interested in being leading by example. Perhaps some of the negative posters on here should start this process themselves.

arborguy · Jan 22, 2015

thank you to all who have cared and taken the time to contribute. I have thought about putting together a type of staff developmental piece on trying to be more cognizant of our co workers.

Sisyphus_01 · Jan 22, 2015

I get that students have asked for homework help. Why post if you have nothing to contribute. Move on. I graduated 16 years ago and intended on an adult discussion. A problem in nursing is cynical prudes.

Oh, come on, man! Nothing that was said was overtly nasty. Also if you notice, as soon as the OP demonstrated the he/she was not merely a student seeking an "easy way out" on an assignment, there was a good discussion.

Even when those who responded believed that the OP was a student, they weren't vicious. In fact, they intimated that they would be open to further discussion once the OP demonstrated that he/she had done some research. Sure some of the comments were a bit smart-a**, but tongue was firmly planted in cheek.

The world is a rough place, the nurses who responded weren't all sunshine and rainbows, but I believe, they responded in a manner that is necessary to ensure that future generations of nurses develop critical thinking skills and learn how to interface with actual humans and not just a smartphone keyboard or computer.

In short, don't get your panties in a wad, we're all on the same team here, and if you want to see some REAL nastiness, go on Reddit.

vanilla bean · Jan 22, 2015

We live in times of stress, I get it. But even when students make new accounts just to ask stupid questions... Well, if they took the time to make an account maybe the question is not so stupid for THEM.
Times have changed, and while way back I'd spend a day in the library researching a topic, or a night with a chalk board trying to figure out how to solve a physics problem for an upcoming quiz, today challenges are different. Some teachers are less available to answer all questions. the schedules are busier. There's a greater need to work'n learn, and own a cellphone (or what not).
It's easy for us to say that ppl should be X or Y or Z, but recall your own experience when someone made time for you, or 'nicely' explained how such or other behavior was inappropriate.
While in RN school a few years back (change in careers for me) I was surprised to see that... mmm... +50% in a class of 30 had barely high-school knowledge of mathematics. and that, on the 2nd level of the program(!) many couldn't solve for X in "rule of 3" type problems.
(we did that in 3rd grade in my country. But, mind you, we had a much better incentive to learn how to do it: got it wrong? you were beaten by the teacher)
So for the above example, how do these guys can catch up? the prof is busy with the curriculum. every class has new stuff adding up. those students weren't as computer savvy as to google math helping websites to learn on their own... maybe they stumbled on allnurse. com and thought that birds of the same feather flock...
Which brings me to the topic of cliques and bullying. coz hey, it's Us, the Sourdoughs of the forum vs Them - the new, 1-2 posts members...

While I agree with you that the questions posted here by students are not stupid to them, the problem is that many are looking for others to do their work for them. When I was in school I used allnurses regularly to help me with assignments, but never needed to start a new thread to help me because by putting in a little time and reading related threads of topics similar to mine I was able to find the help I needed (thank you GrnTea & Esme12 - couldn't have gotten through school without you!).

I also agree with you that times have changed, however, just because students no longer have to "spend a day in the library researching," access to the internet does not negate the need to still put in the time doing the work. Students need to understand that learning is not a passive process - one doesn't sit back and let the learning happen to them (which is what asking others to do the work is all about). Learning is an active process and requires the time, effort, and energy of the learner.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2015

I get that students have asked for homework help. Why post if you have nothing to contribute. Move on. I graduated 16 years ago and intended on an adult discussion. A problem in nursing is cynical prudes.

Well, in this case, one sort of cultural rift seems to have been caused not by prudery but by missing another critical part of assessing and working with varieties of nursing culture: Determining what the dominant culture is when you enter a new group.

Just as if you had entered a break room as a new hire, you join a culture when you make your first post at AN. Granted, it's a big dang break room here, with a lot of constituencies and subcultures. But still. "Introduce yourself, hang around, and get the lay of the land before jumping in" is generally a good idea when entering a new group.

If you'd spent much time on AN before starting to post, you'd have seen the zillions of student posts that ask a question, many very like your own, and seen the zillions of responses to them that pretty exactly match the ones you got, made by the people who care enough to respond with clearer directions and hints about the local mores. You'd have learned that the way to start is to introduce yourself so nobody makes that assumption so often borne out by experience, and take it from there.

So take a deep breath and don't start piping off about "prudery," because I doubt that will get you into any better "adult discussion" than if you said it standing at the door of the breakroom on your first day of work.

Shall we start over? No hard feelings.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jan 22, 2015

I don't see problems or conflict due to generational issues where I work. Interesting article but think it is more stereotyping. The older workers generally had pensions that kept them at one place, but since that is virtually gone, outside of govt jobs, there is less reason to stay at one place! Also staying in one place pretty much guarantees small raises so moving around makes economic sense. I'm impressed with the younger nurses they are not content staying in a unhappy job and either go back to school to be NP's in droves or quit after getting their one year experience to try other things. The older nurses usually settle into a job and try to make the best of it and look forward to retirement.
There are so many different things that can make or break a positive work environment. First and foremost adequate staffing and that is a major problem in many places. Only CA has safe staffing ratios and even there they can get around it and some places fire the CNA's and support staff to save money. Safe staffing ratios and adequate assistant staff is a deal breaker for me. Luckily where I work we have adequate staffing and they don't usually short staff. Unfortunately they will use mandation to accomplish this and that has lead to turnover. Nurses aren't going to stay somewhere when they are forced to work 16 hour shifts. This has always been a major problem esp for the night shifts and the ICU in particular.
A supportive manager is important and one that is willing to spend the money for supplies and equipment. Many hospitals lack lift equipment to protect staff and the patients are so obese these days, but since there is no federal mandate for a no lift environment many hospitals feel fine paying out workers comp and just replacing injured staff with new grads! This is what pisses me off the most! We are getting patients that weigh 400, 500, 600 pounds and do not have ceiling lifts! Hover mats can make a world of difference if your hospital will provide them, but not all will. It took a federal law to get safe needles into the hospitals and this technology had been available for over ten years at that time!
Micromanaging can be a problem in nursing especially with the computer charting and med pass. They watch your scan percentages and when you give your meds. Heck one minute late is 1/2 a sick day there is no grace period. Talk about big brother!
Lastly cliques and bullying can be a problem and needs to be addressed by management to put a stop to it! You could have a great place staffing, supplies, etc but if bullying is allowed it will be a toxic workplace.

I haven't found cliques or bullying to be nearly the problem in the workplace as it seems to be on this forum. Generally, most of what is condemned as "bullying" can be found, with a little more explanation, to be one bad interaction with one nurse, a series of bad interactions in which the poster was a part of the problem, or a failure to take responsibility for errors on the part of the poster. As far as "cliques" -- you're always going to find them -- people have friends in the workplace. Folks just need to learn to get along everyone.

Generational issues in the workplace do exist, but again, I don't think they're as big of an issue as the articles make them out to be. It's too bad someone doesn't do a study on what's GOOD in the workplace and publish that!