nursing career

PhantomRN · Jan 5, 2002

If you want to become a nurse I say go for it. I work in the unit and the staff is about 10% males. I am female. I find it no different to work with men or woman.

As far as gossiping goes, we have one male who leaves no stone unturned when It comes to talking about people. But then we have a few females like that as well.

fergus51 · Jan 5, 2002

Going through school we actually thought that males got special treatment. A lot of floor nurses love working with male nurses, and while some patients are a bit hesitant if you are professional and do your job they will get over it very quickly.

PhantomRN · Jan 5, 2002

To Wildtime,

A quick question what do you mean by: "Overall, they do not make good team players by a male's description."

What is a male' description of a team player? I am being serious. I would like to know how the guys percieve team playing and what they expect from their fellow co-worker.

kaycee · Jan 5, 2002

Welcome Nate. I have worked with many male nurses over the years, some were great to work with, some were not. Same as the female nurses I've worked with. I do find that male nurses are favored or sometimes treated better in certain situations. Anyway there are lots of guys now so I don't think it's as big a deal as it was 20 yrs ago.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy it.

PS- Wild ,I have never read so much BS in one post before in my life. I actually laughed.

wildtime88 · Jan 5, 2002

Women are raised differently and socialize differently. Men and women respond differently to the same situation.

Males do not for the most part play with dolls in a nurturing way or hold imaginary tea parties when they are growing up. Females for the most part do not wrestle or participate in contact sports. Females do not establish a physical pecking order and physically challenge that order of physical superiority. There are many ways that men are different from women.

There have been many books written about those differences. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is one book that deals with the difference in social skills and interactions. There has been much written in psychology texts as to the difference between males and females.

For many males who have come into nursing it has been similar to learning a foreign language.

If there is no gender bias then why are so many female nurses saying that they would like to see more men enter the field? Why are so many female nurses saying that if there were more males in nursing that things would be different? Why do male nurses who want to work labor a delivery find it hard or are just simply denied positions related to their sex? Why is it that in most of the nursing magazines that are out there is there hardly ever a reference to males in the profession?

Males come into this profession without knowing the direct implications or circumstances surrounding female inequality issues. Males have been immune to this or its impact up until entering the nursing profession. Upon entering the profession they suddenly find themselves surrounded by it.

Male traits have their shortcomings as well.

I never said that the overall female traits in the profession were all bad. In some situations, they are a good thing, but in others they are not so good.

Females are more likely to avoid direct confrontation or prefer to talk things out. Talk can be good but in many situations talking can go on forever without resolution where as direct confrontation can bring about change much faster. The war in Afghanistan could have been avoided by talking it out, but then maybe we would still not be flying or doing what we do everyday. We could have talked about the situation in this country about what to do about the possibility of others waiting for other opportunities to do something else, but instead we evidently rounded up a whole lot of people with direct links to terrorism. The people on the plane that went down in a remote section of the country could have sat back and talked about what to do until the plane was plowed into something else, but instead, it was a group of men who took action.

Men can learn some things from women, but also women can learn some things from men. In this profession, the overall atmosphere is not conducive to women learning from men. At the same time, men are educated and in many ways are expected to perform their duties solely in the female perspective.

For most men the role of handmaiden, waitress, maid, and blind compliance are foreign roles. The expectation of self-sacrifice as need to feel fulfillment and self worth are also foreign.

Overall women feel the need to have to apologize or seek some kind of permission for saying what is on their mind, then after they have spoken they put the whole mater to rest. Most men do not feel this need and after they say something then they want a direct answer as well as action taken. Putting something off until another date or having an issue swept under the rug is not an acceptable solution to men in general. Individually, women overall are quicker to make concessions or show total acceptance to something they do not like or want.

Often times I have wondered if the men in the profession have been feminized. The answer is yes in many regards due to the female perspective on the education as well as the general atmosphere within the profession. In order to find acceptance and avoid countless hours of harassment many males have accepted the fact that they have to behave differently at work. I have attended many events with other guys I have worked with and have seen the difference in behavior.

In many ways males in this profession just learn how to play by the same rules as the women who they work with. Let a woman have a direct confrontation with another women and then have a man have a direct confrontation with a woman and you will quickly see how the man is seen and labeled differently.

As for the difference in team play, well that is kind of hard to put into words. There is a difference between belonging to a all male team and one that is female dominated. One difference that comes to mind is that two male players can have a personal grudge and can still function 100% as team players in an all male team shortly after. I have seen all too often where females have had grudges and it affects the team function because of the backbiting and politics that go on for a long time after.

No, I am not pissed at women, but as a man in this profession my overall professional and financial future as well as the reality of the general working conditions is hinged on women in general. The only way to escape this climate is by choosing one of the only avenues in nursing that has come close to if not male dominated. That is the field of Nurse Anesthetist. They are light years ahead of the rest of the profession. In fact, they are so far removed it is at times hard to comphrehend how they can still be nurses.

Nurse-4-kids, I guess just because I am a single male without kids who can travel and who wants more out of life than is available presently in nursing, then I am not a good nurse. Just because I dare to seek quick and maximum improvements within the profession and dare to challenge the way the profession has been run by women in general, then I am not a good nurse. By the way I went back and corrected Type Os and added one line in the process and that was my prerogative.

PhantomRN · Jan 5, 2002

Thanks Wild for trying to clarify your earlier statements.

I must say that I agree with your statements there is a big difference in how woman and men handle situations.

Just an a side prior to coming into nursing I worked in an office that was all male less myself. I very much enjoyed working with the guys, they would say what they thought and not sugar coat it. They were able to work together even if they did not like each other, the job came first. At first they would handle me with kid gloves, like a female, (which I am), but that changed once they got to know me.

I still miss working with an all male group, it was hard making the transision to working with mostly females. In fact I was spoken to more than once by management about my "communication skills."

They said I was "too crash with the girls" and that I needed to "handle them more gently"..........(managements words).

I was instructed to say, "I would like to speak with you. Is now an opportune time to offer you some constructive feedback? "

fergus51 · Jan 6, 2002

Wild, usually I find your posts interesting, but for this one I am pissed off by the stereotypes.

Do I seem like a delicate flower who hides from confrontation and lets people walk all over me? Cause I am a girl... I can't stand when the problems of the profession are blamed on the fact that it is made up of women. Maybe the problem with the profession is in part the fact that society is not exactly equal in its treatment of men and women.

I HATE:( :( the women are catty, backstabbing, weak, whiney, cowardly, grudgeholding gossipers, stereotype!!!! IT PISSES me off beyong imagining. It's like saying men are just a bunch of violent neanderthals who don't have the ability to be compassionate nurses. IT IS BS!!! I especially hate the idea that women don't stand up for themselves. It was women here who went on illegal walkouts and handed in resignation letters just like the men. I am a female and have no problem with confrontation and no desire or co-dependent need to be treated like a servant. Handmaiden, waitress, maid and blind compliance are pretty foreign to me too and I never liked dolls or playing with pretty dresses. I know men with those negative "female" qualities you've mentioned, and I don't blame it on their maleness. People are people and I do not buy for a second the idea that it is all about gender. And I am not an exeption to the female rules either. I hate anything that says "in general women are..."

I am woman. Hear me ROAR!!! And I won't hold a grudge because I disagreed with what you said. I am sure you won't as you are so used to pissing people off on this board :)

ps

To answer a few of your questions, nurses say that more male nurses would revolutionize the profession because they are dreamers and not interested in doing it themselves. Male nurses can have trouble in OB because of sexism, which really sucks doesn't it? Being judged/stereotyped based on your gender I mean...I wonder what that's like... :rolleyes: And lastly, our national nursing magazine had a huge article about male nurses less than a year ago, and they print male contributions that are good too.

fergus51 · Jan 6, 2002

Oh, Nate, I forgot about experiences with male nurses! I work L&D and OB without any men, but there are male OB nurses in existance, even a male CNM on this board. I do get male nursing students, the majority of whom are great, and I have never had a patient refuse one or be rude to them. The male students who are professional and respectful do just as well as the female ones, and in L&D I have found that women could care less if a circus went through the room when they are in labor. I remember one woman being a little hesitant and asking the male nurse if he would be comfortable being in the room, and he replied he'd be just as comfortable as the male doctor delivering the baby. The woman laughed and said she hoped he wouldn't hold her stupidity against her.

nate · Jan 6, 2002

Thanks guys for all your posts. Like I said I've been looking into nursing as a career. Its seems like the skys the limit, that the field of nursing is truly diversified. Every job has its ups and downs. Currently, I work in the retail business. I was third in charge of the store until they closed 3 of the stores in town. I lost my management position which was truly a blessing. Iam going back to school and have found that nursing seems very interesting. Also do any of you plan to expand your nursing career. Such as FNP or PA or CRNA.

nurs4kids · Jan 6, 2002

Originally posted by wildtime88
Nurse-4-kids, I guess just because I am a single male without kids who can travel and who wants more out of life than is available presently in nursing, then I am not a good nurse. Just because I dare to seek quick and maximum improvements within the profession and dare to challenge the way the profession has been run by women in general, then I am not a good nurse. By the way I went back and corrected Type Os and added one line in the process and that was my prerogative.

Wild,

I never said you were a bad nurse. That'd be a ludicrious statement since I've, thank God, never worked with you. You KNOW I agree with alot of your views on the problems behind nursing although I'm a little confused with what "quick and maximum improvements" you seek. All I've seen you seek is a constant ability to criticize; not offer solutions. Your stereotyping of women is ridiculous; chavenistic to say the least. Thank God you are the minority male with that opinion, otherwise there would be another division in nursing. The guys I worked with last night (4 of them) read your post and actually laughed. They decided you are gay and have some deep-seeded anger toward women, therefore you choose to blame all your problems on women..preventing you from having to accept responsibility for your own choices. They couldn't understand how a man could love his wife, love his daughter and still generalize about women in the way you did. They threw around the possibility that the only women you've been close to were weak women. Upon finding out you are single, they figure your mother was probably "from the old school" and wasn't very assertive. I didn't quite see you as they figured, but since you put so much stock in males, and so little in females, then perhaps I'm the blind one here.

Your opinion of women is nothing short of pure ignorance. My own father, who was raised in a time when women were thought to be "less", is not even so ignorant to generalize such negativity about women.

Yes, the two sexes do have differences and handle situations differently. I don't see one way as better than the other, just different. Your comparison of this war and your point is mute. There ARE women fighting in this war. There ARE women fighting to make nursing better. YOU, on the otherhand, are sitting on your ass complaining about what everyone else is doing.

The one good thing you do is you make people think. You kept me interested in the ANA enough to look deep into their activity and see just what they have done; for that I thank you...and I'm sure the ANA does also. You made me research unions enough to figure out that although a union may not be best for ME, it is exactly what others need.

The funny thing to me about this whole thing is that YOU are the one doing exactly what you accuse women of doing. Nothing. I'm sorry, it's not about male vs female. It's about the activist vs the gripers. Where do you figure you fall?

wildtime88 · Jan 6, 2002

First of all you can tell this guys that I am not gay.

My mother was a very strong woman who did not take to much shit from anyone and that my father is also of the same character. I prefer to date women who are not submissive and who are intellengent. I served my country by fulfilling a in the Marine Corps starting at the age of 17 in the infantry. I was living and having to face the ultimate realities of life at the same age they were worried more about pimples, borrowing daddy's car, or worried about getting into trouble if they came home late at night.

As for you not understanding what I have been saying, well it does require some one to think about what I have said. The problem with the way the profession has moved and the problems within the profession lie at the individual level. Until nurses break away from the old ideas, attitudes, and behavior then nothing much will change.

If you or anyone else prefers to be led along by the nose and wants to continue to take whatever is dished out, then fine. Guess what? if that is the case, then there will never be much or quick change. As a gender group has that not what women have been doing for a long time and since nursing is a female dominated profession does it not reflect that as well?

wildtime88 · Jan 6, 2002

fergus51

Roar and roar loud.

Did you read what I said at the second paragraph at the end of my first post?

"There are some ladies who already have or are starting to break away from the female stereotypes that men have all come to know. But there is much more that have not. "