Repealing ACA

kcochrane · Dec 11, 2017

Well fortunately we have Wikipedia to assist with your quest for truth. No hearsay necessary.
Comparison of the healthcare systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia
Seems to me their whole population is insured and they get way more for their dollar than Americans.
Taking the good with the bad is what we have to deal with in anything, we're doing that with Obamacare now. No system will ever be perfect. But it's embarrassing to me that the supposed "greatest nation on earth" has 40% of its population without adequate insurance, with 24% of that with "skeletal" health coverage that barely covers anything according to the article.

I would actually like to hear how it really works. I've heard of issues over the years. Of course no system is perfect. This issue is very complicated. For example the 40% includes those that don't want to pay that premium for insurance. They have other priorities excluding your basics. I'll be honest in not knowing what the answer is, but I don't trust the government to fix it.

elkpark · Dec 11, 2017

Just a general question for those who are of the point of view that the healthcare system is working in Canada (or anyone else who wishes to respond). Why do you believe it's working?
I've heard it does require you to go in for routine things, and people in general are more compliant to making their routine visits but I've always been told there is a lot of bad too. It taking forever to get things done that are necessary (cholecystectomy for example) is one big concern. Literally, I hear it's over a year from being told you need it to when it's scheduled. I know of a family whose father was on hospice and his care needs kept getting more and more difficult, yet he never actually got put in a hospice. He did have homecare nurses visit but they could only do so much. Also, it's very budgeted from what I understand. What I mean is: If it's near the end of the fiscal year and the money is all spent, no matter what your needs are, you're going to wait for the next year to start.
I'm no expert on this stuff, but I've heard more bad than good. I don't know if I'm misinformed or, maybe it's like everything else and its "take the good with the bad."

A lot of what people "hear" about the Canadian system (or British system, for that matter) is negative propaganda, pure and simple. Many of the stories of "a friend of mine knew someone and this terrible thing happened to them," when you try to track down who the friend was, who the person supposedly in Canada was, and when this actually happened, the entire story falls apart.

To me, the bottom line is that the US spends significantly more per capita on healthcare than any other industrialized nation on earth, and we have poorer outcomes to show for it. And we are the only industrialized country that doesn't have some centralized mechanism/system for ensuring everyone gets the healthcare they need. No system is perfect, obviously, but all those other countries clearly know something we don't.

TriciaJ, RN · Dec 11, 2017

Try paying for certain chemo out of pocket. I'm on a PARP-inhibitor that costs thousands of dollars a month. That's just for one med. If you can't work, how are you supposed to set money aside for health care, let alone pay for the health care you need?

That's where the catastrophic part comes in. Your out of pocket expenses are capped.

TriciaJ, RN · Dec 11, 2017

Well fortunately we have Wikipedia to assist with your quest for truth. No hearsay necessary.
Comparison of the healthcare systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia
Seems to me their whole population is insured and they get way more for their dollar than Americans.
Taking the good with the bad is what we have to deal with in anything, we're doing that with Obamacare now. No system will ever be perfect. But it's embarrassing to me that the supposed "greatest nation on earth" has 40% of its population without adequate insurance, with 24% of that with "skeletal" health coverage that barely covers anything according to the article.

One of the reasons the Canadian health care system works (which is really a misnomer; the provinces run their own programs) is that it didn't replace an existing system. There was no system; cash or no care. It's not without problems but it was very nice to get treated when you're sick and no worry about how it's going to be paid for.

The US "system" is a huge quagmire. Quagmires cost money to maintain. Obamacare did nothing to streamline anything. Prior to Obamacare, I paid out of pocket (about $300/month) for a catastrophic plan. My out of pocket expenses maxed out at $10,000/year. And the plan covered basic preventative at 100%. It was a great plan until Obamacare when it ceased to exist.

I don't know what the answer is. Federally managed anything is always going to be expensive. CareOregon was a big expensive fiasco. I hope wiser heads eventually prevail.

allnurses Guide · Dec 11, 2017

One of the reasons the Canadian health care system works (which is really a misnomer; the provinces run their own programs) is that it didn't replace an existing system. There was no system; cash or no care. It's not without problems but it was very nice to get treated when you're sick and no worry about how it's going to be paid for.
The US "system" is a huge quagmire. Quagmires cost money to maintain. Obamacare did nothing to streamline anything. Prior to Obamacare, I paid out of pocket (about $300/month) for a catastrophic plan. My out of pocket expenses maxed out at $10,000/year. And the plan covered basic preventative at 100%. It was a great plan until Obamacare when it ceased to exist.
I don't know what the answer is. Federally managed anything is always going to be expensive. CareOregon was a big expensive fiasco. I hope wiser heads eventually prevail.

The plan you once had seems almost exactly like my daughter's ACA insurance.

Her cap including monthly premiums and copays is $6,000.00.

Accolay · Dec 11, 2017

One of the reasons the Canadian health care system works (which is really a misnomer; the provinces run their own programs) is that it didn't replace an existing system. There was no system; cash or no care. It's not without problems but it was very nice to get treated when you're sick and no worry about how it's going to be paid for.
The US "system" is a huge quagmire. Quagmires cost money to maintain. Obamacare did nothing to streamline anything. Prior to Obamacare, I paid out of pocket (about $300/month) for a catastrophic plan. My out of pocket expenses maxed out at $10,000/year. And the plan covered basic preventative at 100%. It was a great plan until Obamacare when it ceased to exist.
I don't know what the answer is. Federally managed anything is always going to be expensive. CareOregon was a big expensive fiasco. I hope wiser heads eventually prevail.

The Canadian system was the basically the same as ours until they decided to insure their populace in the 1960s.

Again let me say that Obamacare is definitely not perfect, but I believe it is a step in the right direction. The cost of care overall has been lower than it would have been if we had continued without Obamacare. We have more people insured with real insurance coverage. Obamacare streamlined a number of regulations that would mean the insurance you pay for will actually cover you and provide care- a big reason why some of these so called "wonderful" health insurance plans went away. You were paying $300/month for a catastrophic coverage plan prior to Obamacare? You were getting robbed.

Our elected government has been actively attempting to undermine this law instead of improving it since it was created. There are more than a few smart people in the United States. There are many other country systems we could investigate as templates. The "greatest nation on earth" could get this done.

It's been seven years. We could have better. Just need an elected government and populace that would actually MAGA instead of wearing a stupid hat.

Accolay · Dec 12, 2017

It works well in Canada, but we only have 1/10th of the US population. We also went from self-pay to single payer; we didn't have the challenge of upending a whole lucrative industry. I can see many challenges to US going single-payer.
But we do need to do something. The "Affordable" Care Act is anything but for the middle class.

I agree that it will be difficult to deal with insurance companies. However, the argument about population and scaleability of a healthcare system while a well used talking point makes absolutely no logical sense to me. Canada has 36 million people and the US, 350 million. But we just can't make it work?

subee, MSN, CRNA · Dec 26, 2017

Just a general question for those who are of the point of view that the healthcare system is working in Canada (or anyone else who wishes to respond). Why do you believe it's working?
I've heard it does require you to go in for routine things, and people in general are more compliant to making their routine visits but I've always been told there is a lot of bad too. It taking forever to get things done that are necessary (cholecystectomy for example) is one big concern. Literally, I hear it's over a year from being told you need it to when it's scheduled. I know of a family whose father was on hospice and his care needs kept getting more and more difficult, yet he never actually got put in a hospice. He did have homecare nurses visit but they could only do so much. Also, it's very budgeted from what I understand. What I mean is: If it's near the end of the fiscal year and the money is all spent, no matter what your needs are, you're going to wait for the next year to start.
I'm no expert on this stuff, but I've heard more bad than good. I don't know if I'm misinformed or, maybe it's like everything else and its "take the good with the bad."

The bad situations you post happen HERE all the time. Especially with Medicare. You don't receive all services in perpetuity! Your services will be stopped until a new year begins. Good care and bad care happen in all countries . It's just that we pay so much more here for comparable care.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Jan 6, 2018

Government is not the answer. Government is the problem.

Because letting the for profit health insurance companies (whose only concern is making money and who will fight tooth and nail to save money by denying life saving treatments such as bone marrow transplants for certain types of cancer) take over has worked so well for the American populace

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Jan 6, 2018

Just a general question for those who are of the point of view that the healthcare system is working in Canada (or anyone else who wishes to respond). Why do you believe it's working?

I'm from New Zealand, why do I think our system works, if I get sick or end up in an accident, I (like the rest of my country people) can be assured that we wont end up with medical bills of several hundred thousand dollars. As I've shared before an acute hospital admission six days (2014), for septicemia plus surgery the large abcess that caused it all cost me a total of $10-20 dollars for discharge ABs, and I also had follow daily visits at home for packing and dressing of the abcess also free (it was under my arm where I couldn't quite reach so needed a hand to dress it)

I've heard it does require you to go in for routine things, and people in general are more compliant to making their routine visits

I've just come through major laparoscopic surgery which 5 out of the six port sites healed well, the sixth one abscessed requiring a visit to my GP for antibiotics which cost $23

but I've always been told there is a lot of bad too. It taking forever to get things done that are necessary (cholecystectomy for example) is one big concern. Literally, I hear it's over a year from being told you need it to when it's scheduled.

I'm the first to say our healthcare system is not perfect because it isn't. We have lists of people who need things such as hip operations who are unable to afford to go private and can end up waiting for years on the public system and often what happens is that the other hip goes because they spend so much time putting pressure on the good hip to avoid creating pain from the bad hip. Although it is improving, its definitely one area of our system that is on let down.

That said when I had a GI bleed last year despite my doctor growling at me and telling me I should have gone to ED straight away, instead of waiting til it stopped and then going to her, as a semi urgent I got the procedure within 2 weeks. Had I gone to the ED it would have been straight away

I know of a family whose father was on hospice and his care needs kept getting more and more difficult, yet he never actually got put in a hospice. He did have homecare nurses visit but they could only do so much.

In the five and a bit years I've been nursing I've had a lot of interactions with hospice and palliative care services. We work hard to keep our patients in the community, because their preference if possible is they would much rather die in their home and in a strange place. Hospice is more used for symptom management, eg if we are unable to get a persons pain under control in the community, we would get them into hospice for a stay to get their pain relief sorted and ensure its well managed before they go home again

Also, it's very budgeted from what I understand. What I mean is: If it's near the end of the fiscal year and the money is all spent, no matter what your needs are, you're going to wait for the next year to start.

Nope not even close. This is a subject I've had alot of experience with both personally and professionally. People get the care based on need. When my mum was incredibly unwell (she has stage four lung cancer) and being prone to UTIs and delirium was admitted to hospice within 24 hours and spent about four days getting her symptoms under control before coming home again. My BIL who has stage four pancreatic cancer with severe unresolved pain was seen at hospice at noon and admitted an hour later. His pain meds have been changed around, hes now on a syringe driver and doing so much better.

I'm no expert on this stuff, but I've heard more bad than good. I don't know if I'm misinformed or, maybe it's like everything else and its "take the good with the bad."

I have noticed over the years that a large amount of whats propagated as information about universal or single payer healthcare systems is blatantly incorrect. The amount of times I've heard about how the government dictates what nursing care I can provide and how the government does this to my colleges and I'm left scratching my head going "they do, thats news to me"

I encourage people to read both sides of the story, and to ask questions like you do.

Orca, ADN, ASN, RN · Jan 7, 2018

My grandfather lived in Canada, and he lived to be 100. I never had to worry about him having to choose between medicine and food, forgoing medical treatment because he couldn't afford it, or being forced to sell his home to pay medical bills.

HelpfulNatureHopeful · Jan 13, 2020

We definitely need to say “enough”! And have the government step in and control healthcare. Check your privilege for just a minute and think of those that can’t afford insurance.