Obamacare? what are your thoughts

MunoRN, RN · Apr 11, 2014

I don't know, what about "if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance"?

I don't disagree that was clearly not possible based on the how the ACA works, for both insurance plans and doctors, though I find it interesting that conservatives are trying to claim they're upset because something they don't want to happen didn't happen.

Conservative health insurance policy is based on the cost control mechanisms of the private market, particularly price control through competition. The "preferred provider" system existed long before the ACA. Basically what it does is encourage providers to offer reasonable prices in order to get business, those who charge excessive prices get less business, and individuals who want to see more expensive providers need to pay the additional difference. These are pretty core conservative beliefs on how health insurance should work, and the republican 'alternatives' rely heavily on these same principles.

So the "if you like your doctor/insurance you can keep them" idea was in opposition to conservative preferences, which turned out to not be the case (it turned out to be just what conservatives wanted in insurance policy), which somehow is upsetting to conservatives?

Is it maybe possible that conservatives have just decided to not like anything about Obamacare? When conservatives complain about getting what they wanted, it's hard to see any of their criticisms as being credible.

SycamoreGuy · Apr 12, 2014

Your are obfuscating the conservative position. Conservatives didn't want the AFA to begin with, they saw the train wreck a mile away. The only reason many voted for Obama was because they were told they would be able to keep their doctors and insurance. Republican candidates argued that it would not be possible under the terms of the AFA. So it's more of an I told you so than not happening what they didn't want to happen.

MunoRN, RN · Apr 12, 2014

Your are obfuscating the conservative position. Conservatives didn't want the AFA to begin with, they saw the train wreck a mile away. The only reason many voted for Obama was because they were told they would be able to keep their doctors and insurance. Republican candidates argued that it would not be possible under the terms of the AFA. So it's more of an I told you so than not happening what they didn't want to happen.

What republican candidates argued it wouldn't be possible?

Considering the structure and the components of the ACA are very much in line with what conservatives have advocated for in health insurance reform, I don't think it's really accurate to say the didn't want the ACA to begin with; they wanted what is in the ACA, they just didn't want it associated with or credited to democrats. These are after the same people that will oppose their own amendments if it turns out democrats also support it. That's not opposing a bill so much as it is just being oppositional, two different things.

If I've obfuscated the conservative position then what is the conservative position?

toomuchbaloney · Apr 12, 2014

Just to clarify...the law is the ACA, not the AFA. Feel free to just call it the slang term designed by the Republican opposition to confuse people and instigate dislike based upon the association with Obama.

The only reason many voted for Obama was because they were told they would be able to keep their doctors and insurance. Republican candidates argued that it would not be possible under the terms of the AFA. So it's more of an I told you so than not happening what they didn't want to happen.

Bold and Italic mine.

Do you have a reference for this fact or is it simply your opinion? Are you saying that Obama was elected because he was promising this? Can you verify that Obama said or implied any such thing prior to 2009? Obama did campaign on health care reform for the 2008 election cycle but the 'you can keep it' statements were not at play at that time.

Given that the ACA was primarily a conservative reform to our system, it would have made sense for the Democrats to heed the warnings of the Republicans. They (Republicans) accurately predicted that the powerful insurance companies would cancel policies and attempt to move people into more expensive and lucrative private coverage plans rather than maintain the existing policies while adjusting them to meet new requirements. That nuance and response was likely considered in conservative circles when they first designed the individual mandate for health insurance reform.

Not_A_Hat_Person, RN · Apr 13, 2014

They lost coverage because when the AFA rolled over existing plans into the exchanges some doctors and hospitals, like private cancer treatment facilities, were no longer in their provider network. So when Obama said "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" that really wasn't true, and he knew it wasn't true.

So you're saying provider networks didn't exist before ACA?

SycamoreGuy · Apr 13, 2014

So you're saying provider networks didn't exist before ACA?

Of course they did but when the law went into effect the networks changed or policies were discontinued so people ended up in new plans or their providers were no longer part of the network. I don't know about every plan but I know my plan gets really expensive if I have to go out of network, prohibitively so.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 14, 2014

Of course they did but when the law went into effect the networks changed or policies were discontinued so people ended up in new plans or their providers were no longer part of the network. I don't know about every plan but I know my plan gets really expensive if I have to go out of network, prohibitively so.

There certainly has been some advertising of people who were victimized by this phenomenon. Fortunately, every case that I am aware of that was the focus of anti-Obama ad was proven to be hyperbole and untrue. While I am certain that there may be a few souls who found themselves in some 'out of network' or lost provider nightmare; the reality is that many more people have benefited financially by the changes in health plans and networks.

I have family in Michigan. So the recent ads featuring a Michigan woman suffering because of Obamacare was particularly interesting to me.

Playing whack-a-mole: Obamacare 'horror' stories

I will admit that your comments remind me of these ads.

NightNurseRN13 · Apr 14, 2014

Of course they did but when the law went into effect the networks changed or policies were discontinued so people ended up in new plans or their providers were no longer part of the network. I don't know about every plan but I know my plan gets really expensive if I have to go out of network, prohibitively so.

That isn't the fault of The ACA, these companies had YEARS to prepare so they could comply with new regulations. A lot of insurance plans were lost because they were horrible and didn't meet regulations....also something that could have been fixed years ago.

caliotter3 · Apr 14, 2014

It boils down to this: if a person didn't have the money for healthcare before the law took affect, they don't have the money now. I recently received a solicitation letter giving me a monthly quote exceeding $605 per month. What a joke. Do I pay this instead of my rent or instead of my car payment, car insurance and part of my rent? I have to admit that I am not favorably impressed by the healthcare "reform" results.

Laurie52 · Apr 14, 2014

While I consider myself conservative, I feel that everyone in this country should be able to have a certain level of health care. The ACA is the first step. Is it perfect? No, but it is a beginning step. Several years ago my brother in law was between jobs and when they went to buy insurance for the family they had a great deal of trouble because someone had documented in my nephew's medical record that he had Beau's lines. This is something that can indicate malnutrition or a severe medical problem, or, as it was in my nephew's case, a growth spurt. It also means that my diabetic nephew will never be denied insurance because of a preexisting condition. It also means that many self employed people I know will be able to get insurance.

There is always unintended things that happen with changes and I am sure that this will be abused by some. The truth is that we were paying for those without insurance for a long time. I know that when I had a cholecystectomy that I not only paid for mine, but several others too. That is a decision we have made as a society. Do you really want to live in a society where people are left as road kill if they are not insured?

Lastly, as to the person who had to change her doctor during cancer treatment, it is a shame but how many times do people have to change their doctor when they change jobs or when the company they work for changes insurance carriers? It has happened to me and I'm sure I am not the only one

elkpark · Apr 14, 2014

I think they just want everyone to be well aware of who is responsible for the mess.

And how does referring to it as "Obamacare" communicate that? It was written and passed by the Congress, same as every other federal law. All Obama did was talk about wanting Congress to undertake healthcare reform, and sign the finished bill after it was passed. He had nothing to do with the specifics of the plan.

NightNurseRN13 · Apr 14, 2014

It boils down to this: if a person didn't have the money for healthcare before the law took affect, they don't have the money now. I recently received a solicitation letter giving me a monthly quote exceeding $605 per month. What a joke. Do I pay this instead of my rent or instead of my car payment, car insurance and part of my rent? I have to admit that I am not favorably impressed by the healthcare "reform" results.

No, It really doesn't boil down to that at all. It means that now people can be insured even if they have pre-existing conditions where as before insurance companies only took on healthy people where they could make money collecting monthly payments off people who never needed care. What is the point of having a car and a house if you are dead?