Healthcare is NOT a basic human right.

[Asystole RN]

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the government. A right is something that is inherent to the individual, comes from that individual, and is maintained by the individual. You are born with such rights like the right to speak freely, the only thing that can be done to that right is to have it infringed. No one can grant a right to another, only limit or impede the exercise of that right.

Healthcare is a human invention that does not exist in the natural environment. Only through the work of others and through the taking of resources from one party and giving to another does healthcare exist. You cannot force someone to give effort and resources to another and call that a right. In the absence of human intervention the individual would live their lives and succumb to the natural forces which would act upon their bodies.

Do I think we should provide preventative care and basic primary care? Sure. Do I think that we can? Maybe. Do I think that healthcare is a basic human right? Absolutely not.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

I think I saw in an earlier post that you are from Canada, right? I will take that as the reason you are not as familar with the true history of the American West as someone who was educated in US schools might be and maybe took American History classes. You have your own views on the subject which I am obviously not going to change in one post and I have my own, which are based on the truth of what happened in the US according to eye witness testimony and the accounts recorded by numerous US Army soldiers, home steaders, wagontrain captains, pony express riders and other people who recorded statements about their life and times on the plains during those times. Jewles, thoses commiting the acts against the indians were not even Europeans by that time. They were American settlers and the American Army and what they did could in no manner be construed as HUMANE. AND, At that point, they were not giving back land, they were taking it.

Well yes, I am from Canada. However, I don't know if you aware of the fact that we ALSO had Native Americans in Canada. And like I said, yes, by our modern day standards, what happened was many different kinds of messed up. But by the standards of THOSE days, what they did was more humane than most other civilizations would have been. Again, not condoning the mass slaughter of ANYONE, no matter the color of their skin. Just saying that as far as the behavior of people in that day and age, it could certainly have been worse... And like Asystole said, I didn't kill anyone, my parents didn't, their parents didn't, etc. In fact, Canada was where many went to escape poor treatment. So I find it frustrating to be treated like I personally did something wrong for something that happened hundreds of years before I was born.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

43 years ago, I became too busy seeing red to notice what the underlying color was and I’ve never started to look since then. All of my Marines addressed me as Doc, as a sign of respect, no matter what color they were, and that wasn’t always the case for all of the Corpsman over there. Some of them weren’t called anything at all, and for a man to be wounded and to still ignore someone who could help them, and wait until another Corpsman’s available, that’s pretty profound, but Viet Nam was a pretty profound place. So no, I don’t see race, there still isn’t time, if I don’t have time for political correctness, and I certainly don’t have time for race.

My apologies, I hadn’t realized I hadn’t really weighed in on this topic. I spoke, but not on topic, per se. I think each of us are equally born and equally have inherent rights. One of those Rights is, Basic Health Care. With those rights, come inherent responsibilities and part of those responsibilities are to pay the freight for that care. We can’t expect others to pay for OUR care, unless we are youngsters, disabled, or old. The youngsters should be paid for by their parents. On a personal note, and this may be viewed as a prejudice, but so be it, I think there should be a cap on families, I don’t think people should be having 6, 8, 10+ babies, that’s just ridiculous in my personal opinion. The World’s Population is out of control as it is. Basic Health Care should be subsidized by the Government and we all know that purchases made in bulk are cheaper, so... Pharmacy prices should be much more under control and not at the prices, they are now. $30.00 a pill is ridiculous, when we all know that the manufacture price is close to .30 cents tops. Hospital prices need to be governed, to pay the cost of a disp. fracture at $400.00. Billing should be sent to Prison for strong Armed Robbery, instead they get twenty more pages of exorbitant pages of overpriced BS. They get away with it, because they get paid, over and over by the Insurance Companies and we don’t even want to start taking about them do we. The system is broke. Is ObamaCare the answer? It does provide for coverage where there was none before. It isn’t perfect, but there something to start working with and to build on. With Romney, we have words, but little else. Is that enough. He’s already written off 47% of the country. I don’t know.

I might not think Romney is a great choice for president, but I don't think what he said was 'writing off' anyone. He was just saying there was no point in focusing his campaigning on those people because they were going to vote for Obama no matter what. I am sure he would still think of them in his decision making were he to be elected.

[Fiona59]

Well yes, I am from Canada. However, I don't know if you aware of the fact that we ALSO had Native Americans in Canada. And like I said, yes, by our modern day standards, what happened was many different kinds of messed up. But by the standards of THOSE days, what they did was more humane than most other civilizations would have been. Again, not condoning the mass slaughter of ANYONE, no matter the color of their skin. Just saying that as far as the behavior of people in that day and age, it could certainly have been worse... And like Asystole said, I didn't kill anyone, my parents didn't, their parents didn't, etc. In fact, Canada was where many went to escape poor treatment. So I find it frustrating to be treated like I personally did something wrong for something that happened hundreds of years before I was born.

Your last sentence sums up a big part of what is wrong with Canada. We have to apologize for everything and try and right every historical wrong. My family moved there in the 1960s. How in any way are we responsible for displacement of First Nations peoples, the Internment of the Japanese, the Ukranian famine of the (1930s), the Eugenics movement of the 1930s up to the 1970s of the the province of Alberta, the Chinese Head Tax, the refusal of landing for the Komata Maru? Yet, my elected government has apologized for all of these events. Will I ever see the English apologize for Culloden or the Highland Clearances? I doubt it.

Canada's treatment of First Nations peoples is far from perfect but there was never out and out genocide on the level of the US.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

Well yes, I am from Canada. However, I don't know if you aware of the fact that we ALSO had Native Americans in Canada. And like I said, yes, by our modern day standards, what happened was many different kinds of messed up. But by the standards of THOSE days, what they did was more humane than most other civilizations would have been. Again, not condoning the mass slaughter of ANYONE, no matter the color of their skin. Just saying that as far as the behavior of people in that day and age, it could certainly have been worse... And like Asystole said, I didn't kill anyone, my parents didn't, their parents didn't, etc. In fact, Canada was where many went to escape poor treatment. So I find it frustrating to be treated like I personally did something wrong for something that happened hundreds of years before I was born.

Jeweles, I didn't say you killed anyone, I didn't mean to imply you killed anyone or that your immediate family was responsible for anyone's death. My first post to you was made in an effort to clear up what I thought was an error in your thinking regarding the treatment of The American Indians.

Quote from Jeweles26

As for the slaughter of Natives. Yes, there was slaughter. It went both ways. But how many conquering people do you know who give the conquered land, benefits, tax exemptions, and apologize every chance they get?

To which I responded:

I'm sorry Jeweles26; it took me about ten times reading this, before I understood what you meant. I still am not certain about the "it went both ways" part. If you are referring to the Native Indians slaughtering the White man, I'm afraid you've been misinformed. I realize we are somewhat off topic here, but I feel the dire need to correct the misconception. While there were indeed white people killed by Indians, the miniscule amount is barely a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Native American's butchered at the hands of the White man. While it is impossible to nail down an accurate number, there are guesstimates of between

75-112 million Indians

were massacred at the hands of the White man

, between the years of 1772 and 1896. So in choosing your words, I would say it went more one-way than the other. So I damn well think an apology is in order, don't you? Maybe a little more even. AND, about that

giving

them LAND,

WOW, kinda tough to give them what belonged to them and they killed everyone to take it away from them and then, they are making like it's a BIG deal to give it back to them?

BS

.

I think maybe the White boys are trying to change the History Books.

My point being that in the UNITED STATES, Not Canada, I am sorry to admit, I am not all that familiar with Canadian history. I should have been more diligent in my studies and included the Provences, but unfortunately I limited myself to the Continental US and Alaska. I'm not even all that familiar with Hawaii. I was always disturbed by the way the Indians were mistreated, even as a child when we played Cowboys and Indians, I was the one who took on the role of the Indian. I always won and soon no one wanted to play that game anymore.

I am aware that many of the Native Tribes would cross the northern borders into (would be) Canada to avoid the Army and to hunt, part of the Buffalo trails would also lead them into Canada part of the year.

You keep saying that what they did should be considered humane. I don't understand how wiping out the entire village, including the women and children, raping the women, and scalping everyone, even little children with just moderately long hair, should be considered humane. How about killing off enormous herds of Buffalo just so the Indians wouldn't have anything to eat, is that the humane part? or poisoning the watering holes? They killed off over a Hundred million Indians and then those that were left they forced onto Reservations and made them cut their hair into the white mans style haircuts and learn and speak only English and dance the way the white man danced, not like an Indian danced, they robbed them of their culture and their identity. Was that the humane thing to do? I'm sorry, I just don't see it. If we were to even attempt to do that to the Black man today, there would be such an uprising, and rightfully so. You don't so that to anyone and expect them to just roll over and accept it. You most certainly do it and then call it humane.

Now, I'm through with it.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

Again, I said "in those days" it was more humane than it could have been. They could have eliminated them altogether, like most conquering people did. But yes, lets move on

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

Again, I said "in those days" it was more humane than it could have been. They could have eliminated them altogether, like most conquering people did. But yes, lets move on

I know, I was supposed to be through with it right? But reference your "they could have eliminated them all together," at 112 million killed, I don't think it was from a lack of trying that they didn't get them all. You have a bizarre sense of humane ma'am.

[SA2009]

I disagree in regards to paying/hours worked for teachers, at least at the schools where I have worked (public schools and Title I schools). Of course, if you work as instructors on college and university levels, it looks different, but I think public school teachers really would disagree with you.

Having said that it really surprises me again and again, how Americans continue to tell me they do not trust their government but yet, you are the government. This is a democracy, correct? It just amazes me on how often I hear this.

Lastly, all I can say that if you had ever lived under the umbrella of universal healthcare and lived with the security that you and your family will have healthcare, no matter what, you would feel differently. No system is perfect, but there is a better way than what we currently have. People are literally dying in one of the most richest countries in the world because they do not have healthcare, and I don't care what party you are or what country you're from, but that is just wrong.

Come to think of, if you do it on a state level, did you ever consider what you do with people who will move to that state which provides good healthcare? What does that do to the economy, state-wise and nationally, if people from TX, for example, get up and go to CO, for example, because they will their health taken care of in CO? (may be a silly example, but do you understand what I mean?)

[toekneejo, ADN]

I disagree in regards to paying/hours worked for teachers, at least at the schools where I have worked (public schools and Title I schools). Of course, if you work as instructors on college and university levels, it looks different, but I think public school teachers really would disagree with you. Having said that it really surprises me again and again, how Americans continue to tell me they do not trust their government but yet, you are the government. This is a democracy, correct? It just amazes me on how often I hear this. Lastly, all I can say that if you had ever lived under the umbrella of universal healthcare and lived with the security that you and your family will have healthcare, no matter what, you would feel differently. No system is perfect, but there is a better way than what we currently have. People are literally dying in one of the most richest countries in the world because they do not have healthcare, and I don't care what party you are or what country you're from, but that is just wrong.Come to think of, if you do it on a state level, did you ever consider what you do with people who will move to that state which provides good healthcare? What does that do to the economy, state-wise and nationally, if people from TX, for example, get up and go to CO, for example, because they will their health taken care of in CO? (may be a silly example, but do you understand what I mean?)

Actually I do understand part of it and yes there would be issues of our mobile society but as an "off the top of my head" answer... I would assume when a person is insured their insurance would be in a term format so initially when you moved you would maintain your current plan. However, by the end of your term you need to have secured your residency requirements of where ever you had moved. In addition it would be prudent to look into the plans available to you prior to moving (similiar to looking into property taxes currently)Next for me I wouldn't say I don't trust the government but it is that I understand its limitations (I love my son but even though he wants to go on American Idol, I don't encourage him because I know his limits). In addition, America is NOT a democracy it is a Republic. As far as teachers, i don't know what you are referring to, maybe this wasn't in response to my post but I had addressed the other issues.

[cdsga]

While SOME animals show empathy and care-they also leave the less than perfect un-nurtured and abandon some of their offspring who they instinctively know won't survive the cruel world. It is abominable to compare humans to animals in this discussion. Many humans, these days, treat animals better than their own fellow man.

The difference in charity and gov't is that charity is a choice.

Gov't run healthcare in the US unlike other areas of the world, is not the best idea-in my opinion. The Federal Gov't should only step in and regulate when the 50 states don't handle their business. Then it should be temporary-with a deadline for correction, not stay in for the long haul. States should have the lead role in tailoring healthcare plans for their people based on what their population needs and wants. Not the feds dictating what each state should do.

[tyvin, BSN, RN]

er...ah...America is a constitutional republic. I've seen some posts referring to America as a democracy and other post attempting to correct them but here goes; a link, that IMO explains our form of government as succinctly as possible for such a large subject. Hey; there's always time for history.

What is the American form of government? | The Center for Social Leadership

[glowbug, BSN, RN]

Well, first of all, in many countries universal healthcare is only part of what Americans call tax. Actually, it is a deduction which includes healthcare, unemployment, retirement, etc. So, please don't put it all in one pot.

Secondly, as for acute care in America, I had a zygomatic arch and orbital blow-out fx with bones shifting in my face, went to the county hospital, and was not getting care until I put down $2000 because I did not have insurance but was above the poverity line in income (Dallas TX).

Also, I have ulcerative colitis, with my insurance premium paid by myself would run around $300-600 a month, meds (running up to $200) not included. So, in 2008, I went back to my home country, got a colonoscopy ($25 there, $3000 in US) and my meds filled ($15 for 3 months - all meds).

Now, yes, there are downfalls with universal healthcare, mainly that physicians and healthcare personnel earn less. Physicians are also held more accountable as to what prescriptions they write and its necessity. Having said that, the emphasis is on preventative care and longterm remissions, which includes a huge emphasis of patient/public education.

I'm quite sure that most people do understand that insurance companies really determine much of the care, by either providing or pulling funds. Patients get discharged too early without aftercare because the insurance says they won't pay more and the hospitals/physicians/healthcare personnel don't work for free. It sickens me, though, to see how hospital administrators make huge, huge amounts of money and we save on patient care.

Both systems are not perfect and, of course, you feel most comfortable in the one you are used to (creatures of habit), but I take universal healthcare anyday because I know that in case I lose my insurance for any reason, i.e. I develop cancer, I will have security to know I will be cared for, as I wish for my fellow citizens.

I reside in Dallas as well and I have had to go out of country to obtain health care. Texas has the most uninsured individuals in the nation; many people that have jobs cannot afford health insurance or health insurance is simply not provided through their employer. There are annual group trips to Mexico where people visit a physician, get dental work, pick up their prescription medications, and even have surgery. I have truly enjoyed reading the responses in this thread, but I am shocked by the "we all have access to health care" statements. I too would take universal health care over the current system.

Below, I have provided two links from the Texas Comptroller and a link from the Texas Medical Association pertaining to the uninsured in Texas as well as under-insured.

Bordering the Future: Health

May 2007 Fiscal Notes

The Uninsured in Texas

[DoGoodThenGo]

I reside in Dallas as well and I have had to go out of country to obtain health care. Texas has the most uninsured individuals in the nation; many people that have jobs cannot afford health insurance or health insurance is simply not provided through their employer. There are annual group trips to Mexico where people visit a physician, get dental work, pick up their prescription medications, and even have surgery. I have truly enjoyed reading the responses in this thread, but I am shocked by the "we all have access to health care" statements. I too would take universal health care over the current system.

Below, I have provided two links from the Texas Comptroller and a link from the Texas Medical Association pertaining to the uninsured in Texas as well as under-insured.

Bordering the Future: Health

May 2007 Fiscal Notes

The Uninsured in Texas

Earlier this year a very good friend from another Internet group one belongs to died of colon cancer.

A life long resident of Texas the man owned his own business but did not have insurance (he felt taking care of his employees was the better thing to do), and quite literally was allowed to die. MD Andersen and the rest of the big named along with smaller healthcare systems in the state turned their backs on him.