Nurses who steal narcotics....

[MouseMichelle]

This is something that always ****** me off to no end. In my career I've know of 4 nurses who stole narcs. One would take liquid morphine and replace it with water, our pharmacy puts blue dye in ours. We had a card of narcs missing and the NOC nurse who accepted it (it had her signature on it) would not come in for a drug test. Another nurse years back would give vicodin, PCT whatever every four hours on the dot to the patients who had severe dementia knowing that they wouldn't be able to say whether or not they actually got the med.

I despise people like this. Why do it? Why not just go to one of those pain clinics and get your narcotics or whatever you want. Figure out which docs happily prescribe meds up the wazoo and go to them. Why take some elderly persons (I'm talking LTC) meds and make them suffer. What are your guys' thoughts on this.

[eriksoln, BSN, RN]

I couldn't agree more.

There is a world of difference when you are treating a patient with an addiction who happens to be a nurse, and a co-worker who is stealing drugs. What it comes down to is trust. I like to think that I can trust and rely upon my co-workers to do the right thing and not steal drugs from patients. If I had a patient who is not trustworthy and would steal drugs then quite frankly I don't care because I don't have to rely on them.

I find it hard to forgive any nurse who could sink so low as to steal narcotics. Not only does it cause suffering to patients but it can also implicate other nurses as well. While I hope any nurse in this position is able to overcome their addiction I'm undecided on whether they should be allowed back into the profession. I mean, how many chances should you give someone? How can you trust someone who has proven to be untrustworthy?

Thats it in a nut shell. Accountability. The drug addicts have worked very hard for very long to avoid it. Its gotten to the point where anyone who believes they are still accountable is "lacking compassion", "throwing science out the window", "medieval"...........nice gig huh. Take your patients narcs, leave them to suffer while you feed your own addiction (and get away with it for a very long time in most cases), get a slap on the wrist, return to work and anyone who thinks you shouldn't be there is............well, you saw the reaction.

I'd like to issue a challenge to anyone who disagrees with me. A sort of dare to walk the walk instead of just talking:

Ok. So I'm not a member of the vogue intellect crowd that can bend and twist reality to the point where it makes sense to allow nurses who've diverted drugs to practice again. Eh, shame on me. "Bad Erik, you are obviously feeble minded" lol

So, apply the same logic to the other aspects of your life and get back to me on how it works out, if you do it:

1. Next time a loved on is admitted to the hospital, request only nurses who have diverted drugs. I mean...............according to you they are the best nurses around and are vaults of hidden knowledge us nurses who do it right the first time around would never comprehend. You want what's best for your loved one.........no?

2. Get yourself a home schooling instructor for your kids who is a known pedophile. According to you, everyone deserves a second chance, right? We certainly don't want to be "un-compassionate" or "medieval" in our thinking do we? Also, going by your logic, they are safest cause they've been down that road before and know more than those of us who don't have to tough the fire to understand it hurts. They are less likely to harm your children...........sooooo........have at it, hire that pedophile for home schooling.

3. Next time you see some adult publicly beating/abusing a child, don't become angry with them. Studies show parents who abuse their children come from homes where they were abused. They are mindlessly continuing an endless cycle that started long ago with their grandparents parents. Its not their fault. So, no need to call the police or get CYS involved. Buy the guy a beer, tell him "forget about it..........you'll do better next time". Its obvious by the "science" that its not his fault, right? Can't "throw the science out the window" or anything.

4. Thinking of doing some home improvements? Hire the contractor known for taking your initial start up deposit and disappearing, not the one who has run an honest business from the word go. That stuff about following the rules without exception is so old fashioned, it went out with disco. According to you, the one who takes your money and runs is probably more intelligent, not tied down by such boorish concepts of accountability and self respect. The honest one is "medieval" and out of touch, probably thinks seizures are demonic attacks or something.

5. Need someone to watch your pet while you go on vacation? Find yourself a convicted arsonist online and hire them to do it. It was probably "environmental factors" that made him do it the first few times, and he's had treatment since then. He's perfectly safe now, right?

I can pretty much guess none of my counterparts will actually participate in this exercise of "walking the talk". They'll have their own, interesting but dead end/flawed reasons for not doing so. But I can say, without pause, the real reason is simple and short/sweet (unlike the endless talking in circles thats been going on):

See, with the above, they are the ones who stand to lose if it doesn't work out. Its not longer some pt. who can't speak for themselves, who is gone within a couple weeks anyway. Its their butt being bared to the belt when the consequences start flying..........and that is too much to bare. How much wiser we become when it is our suffering that is under consideration.

But is that not a part of nursing, being able to make our pt's sufferings and pain our own? To proceed with urgency when our pt. is in danger, as though it is ourselves who are suffering? Why is it people are so quick to defend a doped up nurse who obviously has shown they can not do this? And not only defend them, but insist they have a place back in nursing to do it a second/third/fourth time? OK, so you save a few lost soul nurses...........at the expense of thousands of patients suffering the consequences when it doesn't work out. That is not the mindset of a nurse, not this one anyway.

[OCNRN63, RN]

Oh, OK. I get it now. Well, not really.

"I don't like you so you must be wrong". OK. You're allowed to think so.

:cool:Just a warning though, you're starting to sound a little more than impaired yourself now.

When all else fails, try attacking your opponent. But I think you'd better watch your step here. Suggesting I am an impaired nurse is slander.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

I couldn't agree more.

There is a world of difference when you are treating a patient with an addiction who happens to be a nurse, and a co-worker who is stealing drugs. What it comes down to is trust. I like to think that I can trust and rely upon my co-workers to do the right thing and not steal drugs from patients. If I had a patient who is not trustworthy and would steal drugs then quite frankly I don't care because I don't have to rely on them.

I find it hard to forgive any nurse who could sink so low as to steal narcotics. Not only does it cause suffering to patients but it can also implicate other nurses as well. While I hope any nurse in this position is able to overcome their addiction I'm undecided on whether they should be allowed back into the profession. I mean, how many chances should you give someone? How can you trust someone who has proven to be untrustworthy?

It isn't just about medical treatment, it's about how they are TREATED as well.

eriksoln seems to believe that rehabilitation is a luxury that should not be afforded to those who have specific job responsibilities. He claims it's because they hurt people. A lot of addicts hurt people - regardless of what they do for a living. His comment toward rehabilitation was that it wasn't his problem. But if he is involved in the process, it most definitely is. And he should recognize that.

He can chose to forgive or not forgive whoever he likes.

But that doesn't mean the rest of will follow suit. He ought to realize that as well. Addict nurses get second chances. And so do pedophiles and abusive husbands and alcoholics. He's going to have to get accustomed to that - because regardless of his personal views, he is still obligated to behave professionally and treat those in the workplace with respect. That's the reality of the situation - the reality that none of this hand waving will alleviate. Perhaps some counseling is in order.

[unbecominganurse]

The posts of eriksoln reflect:

1: no knowledge of, nor respect for, the ANA code of ethics

2: no knowledge of the dilemma of substance use disorders in nurses as most do not divert medication from patients

3: no familiarity with nurse monitoring programs as they enhance patient safety, rather than decrease patient safety

4: that when he does not approve of someone's post, he takes the stand that they and others are "popping pills"

5: and that what nurses do in their personal life is not relevant when most state licensure statutes stipulate the contrary.

Paula Davies Scimeca, RN, MS, who, by the way, has never "popped pills", been investigated for any issue at all, including alcohol or other drug use, and continues to advocate for nurses, all nurses, especially those with addiction. Why? Because I, too, once gossiped and criticized colleagues with addictive illness until I got a stellar education and training on this vital issue. And when I look in the mirror, I unequivocally LOVE the nurse and human being I have evolved into..... Most sincerely, Paula Davies Scimeca, RN, MS :)

[leslie :-D]

But that doesn't mean the rest of will follow suit. He ought to realize that as well. Addict nurses get second chances. And so do pedophiles and abusive husbands and alcoholics. He's going to have to get accustomed to that - because regardless of his personal views, he is still obligated to behave professionally and treat those in the workplace with respect. That's the reality of the situation - the reality that none of this hand waving will alleviate. Perhaps some counseling is in order.

i agree with the bolded part (emphasis, mine)...

but i *think* eriksoln's point is, how do you feel about the above, getting second chances?

we all know they do, whether they deserve it or not...

buit do YOU believe they should get second chances?

i'm with scrubby...where i am undecided about an addict being able to return to nursing.

if these nurses didn't work around meds at all, i'd have no problem w/returning to nsg.

but i don't believe it's constructive to challenge fate, by placing them in the path of temptation.

if that offends folks, i'm sorry but i am a die-hard pragmatist.

and, i believe that is eriksoln's contention, too.

that he just doesn't believe addicts should return to nsg.

while i don't have the data in front of me, i'd be willing to venture that the chance of relapse, is notably higher than the chance of success in staying clean.

addiction is what it is.

and if some of us don't feel warm and fuzzy about getting these nurses back on the floor, i would hope that many would understand that perspective as well.

triquee, did eriksoln indicate that he wouldn't treat others with respect on the floor?

leslie

[annister]

I am not quite as hardcore one way or the other as some here, and I do feel for anyone dealing with addiction. Hell, I'm smoking a cigarette at this very moment. Addiction, to anything, sucks. I'll admit, I was quite a wild child and am lucky to have survived some of the things I've done, and without having suffered the legal consequences of them. I kind of feel like the family dog that managed to swipe the steak off of the dinner table without getting caught. I was honest enough with myself, however, to acknowledge that the only way to get out of that lifestyle was to stay away from that lifestyle...permanently.

So, with all of that irrelevant BS out of the way, Ill get to my point...

What would you say to a recover"ed"/"ing" alcoholic if she/he told you they were looking for a job bartending or at a liquor store? I'd probably ask.....uh, why??

How about the "rehabilitated" pedophile whose second chance includes teaching your kid's 4th grade gym class? It's cool, he's all better now...

Or the stage mom whose daughter is recovering from an eating disorder telling you she can't wait for her to get back into beauty pageants.

And then there's the nurse who went through rehab for narcotic addiction, who is psyched about getting back to work--at a facility that practically has a vending machine filled with narcotics in every hallway.

It sounds dramatic (and sarcastic, sorry it's a huge character flaw of mine), but they're all ultimately the same thought process. So why is one more outrageous than the other? I'm probably already going to get flamed for being insensitive, so I'll go ahead and add that in many of these scenarios, the person in recovery is not the only one affected by his/her choice to re-enter an environment that constantly dangles their biggest temptation before them every day. So, while I empathize with those who suffer from addiction, I am more inclined to consider the wellbeing of those who are inevitably affected by someone else's bad decisions.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

After reviewing this thread and discussing it with other mods, I'm closing it for a time-out to allow some of the heat to escape and ruffled feathers to settle down. TIA for your understanding.