Nurses who steal narcotics....

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2011

you are definitely not alone.
and i guess i don't have any of that "higher moral intelligence", because i lack sympathy towards the addicts.
if i see an addict who appears to be serious about their recovery, AND, doesn't make excuses for the harm s/he has inflicted on others, then i am tremendously supportive.
but there are many (MANY) addicts out there, who take advantage of the "illness" factor, and play it to their advantage.
i am also someone who cannot downplay the corrupt maltreatment of any/all pts affected by the addict's 'illness'.
seriously eriksoln, i believe many agree with you...
about tough love and a swift kick in the pants, being the more effective approach.
but they're just not posting about it...for fear of appearing unsympathetic.
but you're not alone.
seriously. :-l
leslie

LOL. Yeah, I should stop posting on the subject.

You know, I have to protect my spotless public image. My fans adore me............................ :yeah:

<_>

>_>

N/M

metal_m0nk, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2011

Hmmmm, we have very different definitions of common sense. Seems you've attached giving endless second chances to nurses who are subpar to having common sense.

??

Seems you are making a deliberately unrelated leap of logic - which signals to me that a rational discussion with you is likely not possible at this point in time.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Mar 13, 2011

you are definitely not alone.
and i guess i don't have any of that "higher moral intelligence", because i lack sympathy towards the addicts.
if i see an addict who appears to be serious about their recovery, AND, doesn't make excuses for the harm s/he has inflicted on others, then i am tremendously supportive.
but there are many (MANY) addicts out there, who take advantage of the "illness" factor, and play it to their advantage.
i am also someone who cannot downplay the corrupt maltreatment of any/all pts affected by the addict's 'illness'.
seriously eriksoln, i believe many agree with you...
about tough love and a swift kick in the pants, being the more effective approach.
but they're just not posting about it...for fear of appearing unsympathetic.
but you're not alone.
seriously. :-l
leslie

I used to feel like Ericksoln until I started working with addicted nurses. In our support groups NO ONE is gonna let you get away with the illness factor because they don't take any crap and are pretty incapable of being manipulated. But these folks have been removed from practice. The system, in their case, worked. If labeling it as a moral problem makes you feel superior, than you're functioning on a level as far removed from reality as the addicts who are manipulating their co-workers and affecting an entire unit AND the staff who is doing nothing about it! But just because you don't use drugs doesn't make you a morally superior person. Smugness isn't a very attractive quality either. Burning witches at the stake sure took care of those witches - didn't it? However, depriving a person of their ability to make a living as a nurse permanently, after one offense, is serious punishment. What about the nurses who come to work after partying, or took a Benadryl, or who don't manage their blood sugars well and have "forgetful spell?" Don't they realize that they could injure a patient? Well, looking through the retroscope, we all made mistakes through the decades and, although I never was an addict, I surely came to work in the 70's and 80's after drinking too much wine or staying up too late the night before. I could have done better. Do I feel morally superior now because I've grown up a lot and realize how lucky I was that I never hurt anybody driving a car 30 years ago after drinking? No, no, no. I'm not superior. I'm just got a karmic break. Ericksoln, maybe you're just living in the wrong century.

jackstem · Mar 13, 2011

until health care professionals receive appropriate education in the pathophysiology of the disease as well as improved, evidence based treatment protocols, this disease will continue to be a huge public health problem, and too many addicts will die unnecessarily. not only will they die when they don't need to, but they and their loved ones will experience years of unnecessary prejudice, isolation, and suffering.

with early recognition, intervention, and intensive, evidence based treatments, recovery is possible. for those with a loved one struggling with this disease, don't allow the ignorance and prejudice of those who don't "get it" to prevent you from seeking help.

the person with addiction isn't a "bad" person trying to become "good". they have a chronic, progressive, potentially fatal disease and need appropriate treatment and follow up to become well.

here is just the tip of the iceberg on research and findings discussing the genetics of addiction. if you don't understand the science, then your opinion regarding addiction is based on myth, misbelief, and misinformation.

karg (knowledgebase for addiction related genes)

li cy, mao x, wei l (2008) genes and (common) pathways underlying drug addiction. plos comput biol 4(1): e2. doi:10.1371/journal.pcbi.0040002

predicting addiction behavioral genetics uses twins and time to decipher the origins of addiction and learn who is most vulnerable

molecular genetics of successful smoking cessation: convergent genome-wide association study results

[/url]

molecular genetics of addiction vulnerability

the genetics of addiction: alcohol-dependence and d3 dopamine receptor gene

molecular genetics of addiction vulnerability

molecular genetics of addiction and related heritable phenotypes

the contribution of genetics to addiction therapy approaches

neuronal systems underlying behaviors related to nicotine addiction: neural circuits and molecular genetics

genetic influences on impulsivity, risk taking, stress responsivity and vulnerability to drug abuse and addiction

the genetics of alcoholism and alcohol abuse

genetics of dopamine receptors and drug addiction: a comprehensive review

a variant associated with nicotine dependence, lung cancer and peripheral arterial disease

molecular genetics of nicotine dependence and abstinence: whole genome association using 520, 000 snps

genes and addiction

genetics of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors: relevance to nicotine addiction

molecular genetics of substance abuse vulnerability: remarkable recent convergence of genome scan results

the neurobiology and genetics of impulse control disorders: relationships to drug addictions

jack

leslie :-D · Mar 13, 2011

I used to feel like Ericksoln until I started working with addicted nurses. In our support groups NO ONE is gonna let you get away with the illness factor because they don't take any crap and are pretty incapable of being manipulated. But these folks have been removed from practice. The system, in their case, worked. If labeling it as a moral problem makes you feel superior, than you're functioning on a level as far removed from reality as the addicts who are manipulating their co-workers and affecting an entire unit AND the staff who is doing nothing about it! But just because you don't use drugs doesn't make you a morally superior person. Smugness isn't a very attractive quality either. Burning witches at the stake sure took care of those witches - didn't it? However, depriving a person of their ability to make a living as a nurse permanently, after one offense, is serious punishment. What about the nurses who come to work after partying, or took a Benadryl, or who don't manage their blood sugars well and have "forgetful spell?" Don't they realize that they could injure a patient? Well, looking through the retroscope, we all made mistakes through the decades and, although I never was an addict, I surely came to work in the 70's and 80's after drinking too much wine or staying up too late the night before. I could have done better. Do I feel morally superior now because I've grown up a lot and realize how lucky I was that I never hurt anybody driving a car 30 years ago after drinking? No, no, no. I'm not superior. I'm just got a karmic break. Ericksoln, maybe you're just living in the wrong century.

who's labeling it as a "moral problem"?

i'm not feeling superior towards anyone...

but no, i certainly do not feel warm and fuzzy towards those who deny pts. their pain meds...

and those who destroy many, many lives.

as i stated, i fully support those who are serious about recovery.

but you know darned well, there are just as many who dot their i's, cross their t's, and go through the motions of recovery, but are not sincere in being clean.

and the "tough love" approach is certainly not ltd to addicts.

i have used it a few times, in my own home.

generally speaking, i am a proponent of this particular strategy and see no reason to try and defend it.

if "tough love" renders us as angry, malevolent beings, i'm good with that.

i believe that learning through the school of hard knocks, vs being a bleeding heart, has much more positive and lasting results.

seriously, there's nothing wrong with a swift, meaningful dopeslap now and then.

it builds character.

leslie

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2011

I used to feel like Ericksoln until I started working with addicted nurses. In our support groups NO ONE is gonna let you get away with the illness factor because they don't take any crap and are pretty incapable of being manipulated. But these folks have been removed from practice. The system, in their case, worked. If labeling it as a moral problem makes you feel superior, than you're functioning on a level as far removed from reality as the addicts who are manipulating their co-workers and affecting an entire unit AND the staff who is doing nothing about it! But just because you don't use drugs doesn't make you a morally superior person. Smugness isn't a very attractive quality either. Burning witches at the stake sure took care of those witches - didn't it? However, depriving a person of their ability to make a living as a nurse permanently, after one offense, is serious punishment. What about the nurses who come to work after partying, or took a Benadryl, or who don't manage their blood sugars well and have "forgetful spell?" Don't they realize that they could injure a patient? Well, looking through the retroscope, we all made mistakes through the decades and, although I never was an addict, I surely came to work in the 70's and 80's after drinking too much wine or staying up too late the night before. I could have done better. Do I feel morally superior now because I've grown up a lot and realize how lucky I was that I never hurt anybody driving a car 30 years ago after drinking? No, no, no. I'm not superior. I'm just got a karmic break. Ericksoln, maybe you're just living in the wrong century.

I think someone needs to take a break from the support groups and get out more. Not being smart when I say that.......I really mean it. You can get too wrapped up in it.........especially for someone who, as you said, "never was an addict". When I was a landscaper, I didn't do much other than work and pay bills. But, from my days in school, I still had a stint going on at a juvenile corrections facility where I volunteered and talked to youth from broken homes. I spent time talking to them about being abused and how to stop the circle and not become the abuser themselves.

Well.........I went through a little period of time where I was a little too involved with the group maybe. I was going 3-4 times a week, staying for more than the allotted 45min. group time. I was going through one of my "I should be doing more than landscaping" periods and this group always helped with it.

Needless to say, I got a little crazy myself. I'd be at wall-mart and see a mother raise her voice at her kids and be like ":eek:Oh no, that one is going to grow up with issues". My friends would be ribbing each other about this or that (in the way that only close friends can) and I'd start in with the "Oh my, don't say that, if you keep telling them they are stupid..........". Yeah, finally I became the target of the ribbing myself. Then someone suggested taking a little break from the support group.

You kinda remind me of.......me....back then. A little............slanted view of reality. You've even picked up the coping mechanisms of the addicts. If you don't agree with someone..............then they are immoral, and if that don't work..........tell them they are elitist or that they "think they are superior just because they didn't become addicted." Then compare the addicts actions to another group who there is not real connection to, "What about if you took a benadryl or were hypoglycemic". Addicts love that stuff............their book even dictates "We are not bad people trying to be good, we are sick trying to get better." I believe (and this makes me gag) the comparison in their literature is saying an addict is like a cancer pt. Oh my, hand me a vomit bag. Talk about lack of accountability.

As far as it being a moral problem, to a certain degree it is, yes. Not entirely, but lets visit the saying again:

"We are judged by what we do, not the reasons for what we do."

Do I think non-users are more moral than users? Well, that goes without saying everywhere except in the addict support groups.

Is someone who never molested a child more moral than a pedophile?

Is someone who respects others property more moral than an arsonist?

Is someone who believes in self control more moral than the wife beater?

According to you, no. In fact, the pedophile/arsonist/wife beater are victims and shame on the group on the left who never partake in such activities if they are critical of it.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2011

until health care professionals receive appropriate education in the pathophysiology of the disease as well as improved, evidence based treatment protocols, this disease will continue to be a huge public health problem, and too many addicts will die unnecessarily. not only will they die when they don't need to, but they and their loved ones will experience years of unnecessary prejudice, isolation, and suffering.
with early recognition, intervention, and intensive, evidence based treatments, recovery is possible. for those with a loved one struggling with this disease, don't allow the ignorance and prejudice of those who don't "get it" to prevent you from seeking help.
the person with addiction isn't a "bad" person trying to become "good". they have a chronic, progressive, potentially fatal disease and need appropriate treatment and follow up to become well.
here is just the tip of the iceberg on research and findings discussing the genetics of addiction. if you don't understand the science, then your opinion regarding addiction is based on myth, misbelief, and misinformation.
karg (knowledgebase for addiction related genes)
li cy, mao x, wei l (2008) genes and (common) pathways underlying drug addiction. plos comput biol 4(1): e2. doi:10.1371/journal.pcbi.0040002

predicting addiction behavioral genetics uses twins and time to decipher the origins of addiction and learn who is most vulnerable

molecular genetics of successful smoking cessation: convergent genome-wide association study results
[/url]
molecular genetics of addiction vulnerability
the genetics of addiction: alcohol-dependence and d3 dopamine receptor gene

molecular genetics of addiction vulnerability

molecular genetics of addiction and related heritable phenotypes

the contribution of genetics to addiction therapy approaches

neuronal systems underlying behaviors related to nicotine addiction: neural circuits and molecular genetics

genetic influences on impulsivity, risk taking, stress responsivity and vulnerability to drug abuse and addiction

the genetics of alcoholism and alcohol abuse

genetics of dopamine receptors and drug addiction: a comprehensive review

a variant associated with nicotine dependence, lung cancer and peripheral arterial disease

molecular genetics of nicotine dependence and abstinence: whole genome association using 520, 000 snps

genes and addiction

genetics of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors: relevance to nicotine addiction

molecular genetics of substance abuse vulnerability: remarkable recent convergence of genome scan results

the neurobiology and genetics of impulse control disorders: relationships to drug addictions

jack

i think our u.s. tax dollars would be better spent teaching the addict how to cope instead of trying to talk the non-users into thinking its ok.

that "its a sickness" stuff is old. its been around a long time. if it had any substance to to it, we would be seeing the drug addiction treatment fields make leaps and bounds in how successful they are. no such practical results occur, no matter how many studies point towards "sickness".

again, i'll point towards the new laws many states are adopting regarding drunk driving. seems the law makers have caught on.........treat the addict like they are the victim and let them get away with it............and in the end, you only encourage people to embrace their problems instead of dealing with them. why would anyone want to stop being an addict when it comes with so many "get out of jail free" cards? heck, its gotten so bad, a criminal can shot your wife and steal your money, rape your kids..........then go to court and claim "the disease made me do it" and get off with just going to rehab. who would wanna give up that kind of protection from the law?

now, the laws with being caught drunk driving resemble the "tough love" approach. lots of people on the bus these days and on the street walking to work who couldn't get the point. and we're talking about everyone from high class businessmen to the carpenter. as i said, grandmothers got tired of losing their grandchildren and the politicians got tired of seeing so many single parent homes on public support..........so something got done about it. now, if only there were a way for the patients who have their drugs diverted to be heard too..............................;)oh wait.......that'd be nurses like myself who know better than to buy into the stuff you listed above..............n/m.

all the studies in the world about it being a disease doesn't mean a thing. again..............the 1st priority is pt care. protecting patients from some doped up depressed nurse who can't help themselves but to feed an addiction at the expense of their pt's well being. those studies only matter if i am worried about helping the addict, which i am not. their addiction is their problem...........and they should have to deal with it on their own........away from the nursing field. that way, if they slip up (as they often do)..........no more harm brought to the pt anyway so...........slip slide away as much as you want......what really matters (the pt) is ok either way.

making drug diversion a one strike and you are out offense is not about the addict, it is about the patient. why is that so hard for addicts and their supporters to understand? well, i know why but....................

jackstem · Mar 14, 2011

All the studies in the world about it being a disease doesn't mean a thing.

Wow! Willful ignorance. Amazing. Yep...epilepsy used to seen as demon possession. Leprosy was from sinfulness. Blindness in a child was punishment for the sins of a parent. HIV was all about being a homosexual. This is exactly why we are still in the dark ages when it comes to this disease. I certainly hope and pray that no one you care about ever ends up with this disease. Never let science cloud your beliefs.

Reminds of something Abraham Lincoln said:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2011

Wow! Willful ignorance. Amazing. Yep...epilepsy used to seen as demon possession. Leprosy was from sinfulness. Blindness in a child was punishment for the sins of a parent. HIV was all about being a homosexual. This is exactly why we are still in the dark ages when it comes to this disease. I certainly hope and pray that no one you care about ever ends up with this disease. Never let science cloud your beliefs.
Reminds of something Abraham Lincoln said:

Ah, but a patient who has addiction problems is completely different than a nurse with the same............for me anyway. As a nurse, I am obligated to give unbiased care. I am not though obligated to view co-workers with unbiased eyes. Again, cause you don't seem to be getting the point................IT'S ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR THE PATIENTS, NOT ABOUT SAVING A FEW DOPED UP NURSES.

This whole statement above though has no practical application. It reeks of an addict talking in circles TBH.

"If you don't believe the devil made me do it and that addiction is a disease, then by default that means you believe demons cause seizures and HIV only affects the gay population.................." Ummm.......no.

This is a typical addict's coping mechanism..........bunch yourself in with other groups that have little/no connection and proclaim "If you think poorly of me, they you hate this group, that group. So, you cant be critical of me". Its manipulative and juvenilee, but effective hence they keep doing it. I don't fall for that stuff. No adult who understands accountability would.

jackstem · Mar 14, 2011

Ah, but a patient who has addiction problems is completely different than a nurse with the same............for me anyway. As a nurse, I am obligated to give unbiased care. I am not though obligated to view co-workers with unbiased eyes. Again, cause you don't seem to be getting the point................IT'S ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR THE PATIENTS, NOT ABOUT SAVING A FEW DOPED UP NURSES.
This whole statement above though has no practical application. It reeks of an addict talking in circles TBH.
"If you don't believe the devil made me do it and that addiction is a disease, then by default that means you believe demons cause seizures and HIV only affects the gay population.................." Ummm.......no.
This is a typical addict's coping mechanism..........bunch yourself in with other groups that have little/no connection and proclaim "If you think poorly of me, they you hate this group, that group. So, you cant be critical of me". Its manipulative and juvenilee, but effective hence they keep doing it. I don't fall for that stuff. No adult who understands accountability would.

Amazing. Screw science.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2011

Amazing. Screw science.

No.

Screw science interpreted in a way that protects doped up nurses instead of the pt.

Again.........its about protecting patients, not saving nurses. One could argue that the theory that addiction is a disease or is "genetic based" is all the more reason not to give second chances. If its truly a matter of addicts being different rather than just being poor decision makers.......then hey..........all the more reason to withdrawl second chances.

unbecominganurse · Mar 14, 2011

Are you for real? Seriously, when you write:"All the studies in the world about it being a disease doesn't mean a thing. ...... Those studies only matter if I am worried about helping the addict, which I am not. Their addiction is their problem...........and they should have to deal with it on their own........away from the nursing field. That way, if they slip up (as they often do)..........no more harm brought to the pt anyway so...........slip slide away as much as you want......what really matters (the pt) is OK either way."

Because if you are a licensed nurse, you violate the ANA Code of Ethics with much gusto. Provision 1 maintains our fundamental recognition that underneath all nursing practice is "respect for the inherent worth, diginity and human rights of every individual." Nurses are included in the term "every individual" and provision 3.6 specifically mandates that "The nurse extends compassion and caring to colleagues who are in recovery from illness or when illness interferes with job performance." Or are you of the belief that nursing ethics, along with the research demonstrating addiction is a neurobiological condition, should also be flung out the window? Paula Davies Scimeca, RN, MS