Nurses: we do seduce our patients

diane227, LPN, RN · Dec 27, 2008

I have been asked out on dates by several patients but have never gone. There was one patient who went out with us (the staff) after work for a drink but that was about it.

suanna · Dec 27, 2008

I guess I'm in the minority but I don't see the issue. Are we talking about after they are discharged to home or asking them out as you are placing a foley? I'm not advocating an intimate relationship while the patient is under my care but once the nurse/patient relationship is no longer active why couldn't the patient or the nurse ask someone out they find may be compatable with? We aren't priests or nuns. We aren't in a position to manipulate them mentaly or emotionaly once the nurse patient relationship is no longe primary. You get to know people pretty well as you care for them overseveral days- once they are no longer under your care- why not?

allnurses Guide · Dec 27, 2008

I wonder how the survey was worded for a start, and what thier sample group was although it does say the Nursing Times published it so I may well have to dig out my old copies and find that article.

I am sure not all 400,000 nurses in the UK answered that questionaire but it wouldn't be in the best intersts of the tabloids to publish how statistically significant this "study" is now would it

pagandeva2000, LPN · Dec 27, 2008

I have a girlfriend, who I think overstepped her boundaries, or maybe had different expectations and an unrealistic fantasy. She was the caretaker of a woman who had ovarian cancer. She noticed that her husband was there for each moment of his dying wife's suffering. He would bathe her, feed her, spend many nights...appeared to be totally devoted. The entire floor was moved by this man's dedication to his wife's comfort, so, when she died, even most of the physicians attended the funeral. My friend told me many times that she wished she had a relationship like this and how she found herself to be a bit attracted to this man.

About a year later, she decided to give this guy a call. He was very receptive, remembered her well, and commented that he used to notice how neatly she dressed, her stylish uniforms, etc... and even called her back. They had developed a telephone relationship, but my friend wanted so much more! She couldn't understand why he would not ask her out. I tried to remind her that this is the year of 'firsts'-first Thanksgiving, Xmas, birthdays, etc without his wife and maybe he wasn't interested in dating, but appreciated a part of his wife's past in the form of one of her final caretakers. But that doesn't mean he is or should be interested in HER. And, thinking about it, I asked her how she obtained his contact information...I mean, the wife is dead, he is not a patient...isn't this sort of crossing the line a bit? Never got a clear answer on that one, but it can be considered as a HIPPA violation to me. After a few months, he basically stopped calling her, and she would relentlessly call me and ask what I 'thought'. Obvious to me... he is not interested in pursuing this any further. And, maybe...just maybe now that the haze has lifed a bit, he started to wonder about this situation himself!

It's touchy, for sure. Maybe as soon as you know the person is about to be discharged, you may decide to give them a contact number before they leave the door because this is technically the last time you will probably see this person. But, to obtain their information in this manner can lead to uncomfortable feelings. I think I would take it as this person saw me at my most vulnerable and is using it to their advantage? This person may even know what insurance I have, where I work, my salary, etc...all of the information obtained for demographics. Not sure if this is wise, but I clearly do not judge when it works out for others.

Mr Ian · Dec 27, 2008

The survey's findings suggest a significant proportion of Britain's 400,000 nurses are prepared to run the risk of sanctions for sleeping with patients. Almost one in 10 nurses think starting a relationship with one of their patients is acceptable

A guy called Ben Goldacre does a regular on Bad Science which essentially rips silly things like this apart.

I've not read the article, the research or anything other than this thread. But here - I'll be brave -

I suggest the reseach reads:

1 in 10 nurses, when surveyed replied that they did not think it was unethical to have a relationship with a patient.

This does not mean nurses were saying they should seduce patients.

Those 1 in 10 are actually absolutely correct IMO. There is nothing wrong with dating someone who was an ex patient. The other 9 out of 10 probably answered what they thought the Code of Ethics requires them to - "no no and thrice no".

As we know, the boundary exists when the nurse pursues the relationship by using confidential information (as per pagandeva's example above) or where the patient may be seen as vulnerable.

If I was single and a patient asked me for a romantic liaison - that's fine if I think they are making a good judgment (and face it - picking me is damn good judgment :coollook: ). I doubt I would force myself upon a patient even if I thought the feeling was mutual.

Further, as long as confidentiality/HIPAA is not breached, what's the difference in a bar maid/man or a police officer or a lawyer or a dustbin technician meeting someone through the course of their work - are there any surveys done on them as to how many think it ethical or not?

I would suggest not - why? Because they just aren't as sexy as male nurses

:mnnnrsngrk:

statphleb SN · Dec 27, 2008

Would I date a pt?----Depends on their Dx! :lol2:

pagandeva2000, LPN · Dec 27, 2008

The survey's findings suggest a significant proportion of Britain's 400,000 nurses are prepared to run the risk of sanctions for sleeping with patients. Almost one in 10 nurses think starting a relationship with one of their patients is acceptable

A guy called Ben Goldacre does a regular on Bad Science which essentially rips silly things like this apart.
I've not read the article, the research or anything other than this thread. But here - I'll be brave -
I suggest the reseach reads:
1 in 10 nurses, when surveyed replied that they did not think it was unethical to have a relationship with a patient.
This does not mean nurses were saying they should seduce patients.
Those 1 in 10 are actually absolutely correct IMO. There is nothing wrong with dating someone who was an ex patient. The other 9 out of 10 probably answered what they thought the Code of Ethics requires them to - "no no and thrice no".
As we know, the boundary exists when the nurse pursues the relationship by using confidential information (as per pagandeva's example above) or where the patient may be seen as vulnerable.
If I was single and a patient asked me for a romantic liaison - that's fine if I think they are making a good judgment (and face it - picking me is damn good judgment ). I doubt I would force myself upon a patient even if I thought the feeling was mutual.
Further, as long as confidentiality/HIPAA is not breached, what's the difference in a bar maid/man or a police officer or a lawyer or a dustbin technician meeting someone through the course of their work - are there any surveys done on them as to how many think it ethical or not?
I would suggest not - why? Because they just aren't as sexy as male nurses
:mnnnrsngrk:

You brought up interesting points. If I went to my bank and met the loan officer, would that be considered as unethical if we started dating? What about if I met an irresistable highway patrolman? Maybe I would be able to dodge tickets for speeding?

Mr Ian · Dec 27, 2008

TBH pagandeva, I think the whole article is a piece of sexist toilet journalism.

Of all the things nurses were surveyed on - why pick the part about sleeping with the patients?

I read the article - and actually I've read and commented on it before - it was an older one from March 2008.

1. 3,600 nurses - out of 400,000 is less than 1% and they extrapolated from that.

2. It was hype on the back of some pontificating Lord Mancroft who made some rather undignified comments about nurses being grubby and promiscuous.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580293/Tory-peer-attacks-%27grubby-promiscuous%27-nurses.html

From the original Times article:

"Dr Peter Carter, general secretary of the RCN, says a relationship with a current patient can never be condoned but believes relationships with former patients are acceptable in some circumstances. Carter also disputes that the findings support Mancroft’s claim that nurses are promiscuous. "

pagandeva2000, LPN · Dec 27, 2008

Would I date a pt?----Depends on their Dx!

And, you know what? These days, that is important to know as well. I know of another interesting situation from a friend of a friend (sounds gossipy, I know...). This nurse is married to a man who left her for another woman who got pregnant by her husband. She still pines for this man, who occasionally comes to the house and whines about his new lover. Her husband found some papers from the hospital of his lover that stated she had 9 pregnancies, 5 children, had a past history of veneral disease and is on psych meds...oh, has a history of drug abuse. Her husband didn't understand all of those labs, so, this woman called someone she knew at the hospital that treated her husband's lover and got all of the information.

Now, she has decided she should not deal with her husband out of fear of STDs and her husband wants to leave his lover, but has no place to go because his wife doesn't want him back.

Not the right way to find out this information, FOR SURE. But, somehow, this helped this woman move on with her life without her husband. Hope no one gets in trouble...:chuckle

Anxious Patient · Dec 27, 2008

I think the whole article is a piece of sexist toilet journalism.

I also think the article was sensationalist. Lord Mancroft obviously has an ax to grind against NHS nurses. And because of his peerage, he gets the spotlight when using the bully pulpit. But, judging from the readers comments, I don't think his charges or the survey findings were taken that seriously. A lot of the posters had fun with it....love that British humor.

lovehospital · Dec 27, 2008

Since we get ask on a dates by doctors,other nurses,techs,other technicians we may as well be asked by the patients,after their discharge of course....no huge deal....