Nurses as secretaries

[SoundofMusic]

This is an idea that I feel is very unsound in nursing, and that is to place a nurse in the role of secretary for the day. Because our hospital has frozen hiring now, and because we can't keep a secretary to save our lives, now we as nurses are starting to be assigned as secretaries for the shift.

I feel this is just outright stupidity and a human resource management issue. You take a degreed person w/ nursing skills and make them work in an administrative role? Why? I mean -- you're basically paying a person almost $30 per hour to enter orders.

In this job market, there would be plenty of folks who would be willing to do the job temporarily, or as part of a pool, perhaps w/o benefits, or part time, or whatever. I don't get it. Isn't this a waste of money/human resources?

And then we have nurses on the flloor who can do it, and are very good at it -- and management loves them. Meanwhile, I can't do the job, because I feel it's sort of complicated. I mean -- you've got to know what your'e doing, especially on day shift -- so now I feel inadquate that I can't do the job! If I ask for a training day, they look at me like I'm nuts -- oh, you just jump in and do it -- and get trained on the way.

But I still feel it's an improper use of clinical personnel.

[SandraCVRN]

For those that didn't understand the OP, she IS NOT having to do her job and that of unit clerk, it's not taking away from her pt care. They are staffing an RN as the clerk, not an easy job but I did it on occasion, have also work as a tech and a sitter all for the same pay, not smart IMO from a fiscal point but then I'm not the one that does the scheduling.

This reminds me of my ex, a welder that was making 18 an hour 20 years ago, that quit his job because they wanted him to sweep up (not the whole place but just his area) It was beneath him to sweep he was a "welder". I'll sweep (or sit, or unit cleck) for RN pay.

Also, to the OP, do you not have to do any of these things already? What if the unit clerk is busy, are you just going to to make your pt wait to get new meds, tests, etc until the clerk can get around to it??

[SoundofMusic]

With my night differential they wound up paying me close to $60/hr (Bay Area wages) to do that insanely easy job. Our house supervisor claimed that it was still cheaper than paying a nurses aid overtime! I am not about to complain, especially since so many people in this country are out of work right now, including nurses.

Yeah but -- wouldn't it be more financially PRUDENT to hire a few more secretaries, let nurses me nurses, and create more efficiency and safe care for everyone???? You have at $60 an hour paid someone 4 x what a secretary gets paid. How much waste is that exactly?

Sure -- how great that someone gets paid $60 an hour to sit and enter orders. But in the long run -- this is why the hospital has to continuously understaff, not hire more, etc. It's a fiscally irrresponsible practice!

And to clarify, I absolutely have every respect for our secretaries. I realize many are educated, have degrees, etc. They job they do is extremely difficult -- but do they have nursing degrees? Nursing skills? Are they licensed RN's? No. They are fantastic at what they do, though -- way more efficient than I am -- and that's what they should do.

I hear the part about needing to be a team player, but I feel nurses have enough to do. I feel this IS a lot of the crap that gets loaded onto nurses, -- yet they never pitch a fit about it and continue to have it all dumped on them. It's indicative of this profession -- just keep taking it and they'll keep dumping it on. I think it's wrong and just because "that's how we've always done it" isn't a good enough reason for me.

And BTW, the reason I feel we can't keep secretaries is that our floor is extremely demanding and stressful. Even the best secretaries have left it due to stress. We treat our secretaries great, despite many of them who have not treated us as RN's so great at times. The ones who are left? I worship at their feet!!

[pennyaline]

If you chose to be accept that role and enjoy it.......knock yourself out but don't judge or shove it down the throat of those that are not willing.

And vice versa, dear

[pennyaline]

To the business mind, it is a waste of resources to have someone who gets a higher rate of pay doing a job when you can get someone cheaper to do it.

Right, and they hire cheaper yet still experienced nurses whenever they can. Meanwhile, it makes no sense to the business mind to pay two people (nurses who are already on staff, and unit secretaries who are ancillary workers) to do the work that one person (the nurses) can do. The wages for unit secretaries are unquestionably lower than nurses wages, but when it comes to budget cuts ancillary staff is far more expendable than nursing staff and will be cut first.

And so what if she doesn't? There is nothing wrong with not wanting to work as a secretary if you're a nurse. Having worked in nursing for many years now, this attitude has frustrated me so many times I can't tell you. We complain when we are unable to get our work done and provide proper care to our patients but the minute someone does not to take on additional work that could be reasonably done by someone else (thus freeing us to do the thing we were hired to do), then other nurses try to make you feel guilty and pull out the old "you think you're too good" bit. It's tiresome and old.

As has been said before, no one disagrees with you. And as also been said before, the climate for change is not right. Not now. Not yet. So stop b****ing, be flexible, and keep your jobs.

[blondesareeasy]

Baby! I'll take the desk any day! It's a blast and a relief from the bedside crap. And I'm fast, although not as fast as a seasoned ward clerk.

And a nurse shouldn't worry about the finances of a hospital if they're short staffed for a ward clerk. Take their money and get over it.

You yungin's with your lofty, "But I'm a NURSE" delusions crack me up.

And, you've got to work the jails before you can become a street cop. EVERYONE should have to do the desk every once in a while. It's too bad the ward clerks can't be stuck with being a nurse for a day, although our guys will get up and pitch in with lifting, leads off, and crowd control. (The women won't though.)

[nursel56]

QUOTE=Jessy_RN;4205343]I guess I am a little confused, so my apologies in advance. So just because you've been running a ward for decades and it's what you are accustomed to, it SHOULD be like that. Or because you did your fair share of dirty work, everyone after you should? So, it is okay for a nurse to fill in clerical duties, housekeeping, etc WHILE maintaing a heafty load, go about a long shift without a break or meal because that is the way YOU did it centuries ago and/or still do?

Maybe it's because nursing is so extremely stratified these days. There was never all the talk about "CNA work" or this is your job, this is my job and never the twain shall meet. I never heard the term "dirty work" used to describe "CNA work" It was just work. I think it would be kind of cool to be able to fix an iron lung if it breaks.

[SoundofMusic]

And a nurse shouldn't worry about the finances of a hospital if they're short staffed for a ward clerk. Take their money and get over it.

This attitude is pretty incredible.

Sorry, but I do worry about the finances of my hospital. I'd like for the hospital to remain financially viable not only for the community but for me to have a JOB in the long run and not have to do it chronically understaffed and short.

Sure -- it's ok once in a while to do the job as assigned to get a taste of it. But I disagree with having this morph into a routine practice, as it now is in our hospital. We're constantly being told not to waste supplies, not to clock out late -- no dollar seems able to be spared -- until it comes to stuff like this.

We had a nurse play secretary this entire weekend. Let's see -- so she got paid around $700 for the weekend,(or more, I guess w/ weekend differentials) when it could have cost the hospital just $360 to staff an employee at $15 per hour. If the hospital does this say every weekend, all year round, that some $16,000 they have now overspent. Multiply that by the ten floors on our hospital and you've now wasted $160,000 per year on overstaffing, just on weekends. That some three additional nurses who could have been hired -- and how many secretaries could have been hired?? Six or seven maybe?

I realize it's a simplistic running of the numbers, but you can't tell me this is fiscally sound. It also overburdens the nurse, especially if they just totally decide to scrap the secretaries and just save even MORE money. (oh, and what is this doing for the economy where jobs are constantly being lost nowadays?) I can't even say that they ARE saving money, because, for example, we didn't really need this extra nurse this weekend. Easily we could have had her stay home and allowed a secretary just to come in and do it.

Honestly, if you "old timers" like this sort of thing -- then thanks a heap. You've successfully allowed nurses to be overburdened and taken advantage of with your inaction and willingness to accept such practices with no protest. If your'e ok with that sort of legacy, then, well, whatever.

More burden on the nurse, less staffing, better care for all? I don't think so. But it sure saves money for the Boss, I guess.

And I'm also going to say that I surely did go to nursing school, study hard, and fulfill all of those graduation requirements to be a nurse! I spent many years working my way through college in admin positions, and it's great honest work -- but it's not what I went to nursing school to do. It's not beneath me -- it's just not what I feel I want to do, nor what I ended to do with the training I've received in nursing school. If it's expected of me, routinely, then I should be paid extra to take on that additional duty!

Funny -- we'd never DREAM of asking a doctor to "pitch in" and provide routine nursing care. I mean -- sure -- many of them are very sweet and will help me boost patients, will run into rooms when they hear stuff going on. But I'd never ask them to do it routinely. Would I ask a hospital administrator to come on down and perhaps just "

"help out" with charting? Heck no -- they get paid too much, and it would be a "waste of their training." Oh -- but ok to do with nurses??

[Zookeeper3]

it's possible that there are several issues influencing the inability to keep a secretary: workload, pay, work environment, who knows? but the op is absolutely right that it is inefficient and a waste of fiscal and human resources to put a nurse in a secretary's chair. i see no evidence that she looks down on that role. do you also advocate that nurses fill in for housekeeping, maintenance, dietary, etc?

i empty the trash, have to pick up snacks, late meals and manage the patient fridge temps, pick up tube feeds that never seem to be delivered, i trouble shoot many types of broken equipment before sending it out from blood pressure cuffs to iv pumps and heating blankets..... yep, i already do these things plus enter telephone orders, while our busy secretary is taking off orders and stats, and md calls in a busy icu....

plus i do pastoral care, grief chats, patient relations with angry and exhausted family, try to arrange hotel accommodations, do range of motion for physical therapy, suction for respiratory therapy (call for vent changes they are not monitoring tight enough), play security for the drunken family member... mentor for the new nurses, it specialist for those that can't work the new computer program for the week, phlebotomist for those that can't get am labs and lab is short on techs. charge nurse when the docs or family is simply ticked with the primary nurse and a different person to chat to makes all the calming difference. poop patrol buddy to my peer with the gi bleeder, and bath buddy to another and yes....even the person that walks out to the family room and gets the family of the new admit to the unit without having to navigate the icu maze because they are stressed enough.

op, we do it all, we do it all everyday because we are nurses, we are "fixers", and because we some days simply take it for the team. ... that's what we do.

i could complain about our difficult role, but i don't because it is my role as a nurse. it's what i do. ok, i do complain.

so you have every right to demand training, but my 15 years in, has all been on the job training and i've learned and learned as i've nursed. i'm a nurse, it's what i do.

[Zookeeper3]

penny DEAR, there is no need to be a condescending twit....because you are willing to ..hmm ..."bend over" doesnt mean ANYONE else should be

I feaking love your response, and that is the core of who I am as a person, but not the reality of the work force and what we are required to do. I always bring my lubricant to work, sometimes the knee pads, but my snarky friend... it is what it is.... and I'm at a fire at will state, I learn to balance my expertise , tolerance and verbal managerial banter every time I clock in.... I am not in a union and we are very frequently fired at will. Management thinks it sets a good example.....

So it is what it is and sometimes the options to leave, move, loose everything, take a bankrupt hit on the house and set yourself back 10 years, allows you to go to CVS, buy the lube and come prepared for what the next shift will bring you and support your family. Consider a fish eye lense to your view, there is always a larger picture and avoiding loosing your home, affords you the willingness to BEND OVER despite your morals and personal and professional beliefs because at the present time........ it is what it is and life brings responsibilities far greater than our professional wants.

I have 4 of them right now expecting better priorities from me.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

I feaking love your response, and that is the core of who I am as a person, but not the reality of the work force and what we are required to do. I always bring my lubricant to work, sometimes the knee pads, but my snarky friend... it is what it is.... and I'm at a fire at will state, I learn to balance my expertise , tolerance and verbal managerial banter every time I clock in.... I am not in a union and we are very frequently fired at will. Management thinks it sets a good example.....

So it is what it is and sometimes the options to leave, move, loose everything, take a bankrupt hit on the house and set yourself back 10 years, allows you to go to CVS, buy the lube and come prepared for what the next shift will bring you and support your family. Consider a fish eye lense to your view, there is always a larger picture and avoiding loosing your home, affords you the willingness to BEND OVER despite your morals and personal and professional beliefs because at the present time........ it is what it is and life brings responsibilities far greater than our professional wants.

I have 4 of them right now expecting better priorities from me.

nope, i am old and work agency....dont take that crap any more......we all need to live below our means so that they dont have this total hold on us......the expectation of being treated in a legal and moral fashion should not be a firing offense.....and what kind of example are you setting for those 4 dependents?? If you can not confront directly, the labor board is a potential....

[pennyaline]

nope, i am old and work agency....dont take that crap any more......we all need to live below our means so that they dont have this total hold on us......the expectation of being treated in a legal and moral fashion should not be a firing offense.....and what kind of example are you setting for those 4 dependents?? If you can not confront directly, the labor board is a potential....

I don't understand your point. Is being expected to take a turn at secretarial duties on your unit equivalent to being treated in an illegal and immoral fashion? Or are you using "nurses as secretaries" as a metaphor for larger-scale abuse?

[morte, LPN, LVN]

I don't understand your point. Is being expected to take a turn at secretarial duties on your unit equivalent to being treated in an illegal and immoral fashion? Or are you using "nurses as secretaries" as a metaphor for larger-scale abuse?

my response was to that particular post....with YOUR response i have to PRESUME that you are being purposefully obtuse....now, DEAR, tell you DO know the difference between ASSUME and PRESUME?