No one wants to badmouth Florence Nightingale, but a new degree for nurses is causing bad blood between doctors and their longtime colleagues. The program confers the title of doctor on nurses, but some in the medical profession say only physicians should call themselves "doctor."
Dr. Steven Knope is a family practitioner in Tucson, Ariz. "If you're on an airline," he jokes, "and a poet with a Ph.D. is there and somebody has a heart attack, and they say 'Is there a doctor in the house?'-should the poet stand up?" Knope laughs. "Of course not."
Physicians such as Knope say the title of doctor implies a certain amount of training, hours in medical school that nurses just don't have. Dr. Ted Epperly, president of the American Association of Family Practitioners, says that while doctors place a high value on nurses, sharing the same title could confuse-and even harm-patients.
Most of the dnp programs require the nurse to have a master’s degree. So, in my case, I would have a BS (Biology 4 years), ADN (2years), BSN (1year), MSN (2years), and a DNP (2years) plus over 5 years of clinical experience and the thousands of clinical hours each respective program requires. For those counting that is more than 11 years of learning. So it's irritating to hear people say nurses haven't earned a title. Oh and whereas I've taken and passed with high marks courses like biochemistry, organic chemistry, eukaryotic gene expression, molecular and cell biology, genetics etc... Few if any doctors have ever taken a nursing course. A nurses' course of study teaches one how to treat the whole person, not just a symptom. We use biology, chemistry, psychology and a health dose of ingenuity to treat our patients every day. Our interaction with and healing of patients is on an entirely different level than that of the physician. If you ask me, Drs shouldn't knock nursing curriculum until they've experienced it. In fact I wish they would take some of our courses ... it would make them better Drs.
Hmmm, let's see, if you have a Ph.D. you are a doctor and you can be called doctor, that includes fields such as Doctor of Divinity, Philosophy, Psychology, etc. So why would not one call a Nurse with a Ph.D. "Doctor?" Only an MD with an axe to grind would complain, and Lord knows there are enough of them.
wow. i am shocked and befuddled by your ignorance. i will make sure i refer to every nurse with a dnp as "dr." oh yeah, that goes for everyone with a phd as well- but maybe you need their curriculum to be cleaned up also. gimme a break. the fact that this dnp program has so many people fired up makes me laugh.
me too! what's the big deal!? this is nuts!!i bet it was the same way when the bsn came out. but to be fair, they said for years a nsn would be entry level for rn, and the adn is still around. who knows? why all the craziness?
Is there a problem with Nursing wanting and/or having a doctorial degree. Of course not. But I've been looking at the curriculum listed for the DNP. With one or two exceptions all that I can say is-You've got to be putting me on. Do it right or these ivory tower academics are going to destroy any crediblilty that we've worked so hard and long to develop.
Why? I have over 82 credit hours, and NONE of it was fluff...
Why? I have over 82 credit hours, and NONE of it was fluff...
Unless you want to post a link to your school's DNP curriculum that is going to be really hard to believe. I haven't seen a DNP program yet that didn't contain at least 50% fluff. Fluff being courses in theory, management, ethics, statistics, business, education, etc. which may or may not be rigorous in nature but have zero to do with advanced clinical practice and knowledge, the stated purpose of the DNP.
lpn, adn, bsn, np and dnp were all born out of necessity. nursing as a whole came to be because doctors were too filthy to adequately care for wounded soldiers and they (the soldiers) kept dying. so doctors only have themselves to blame for the fact that nurses are gaining more autonomy. first, by neglecting to actually care for the patient and not just the injury, an entire branch of medicine was left unattended and nurses came to the rescue. second, by making medical school so hard to get into in efforts to maintain "exclusivity" and "prestige", they haven't managed to produce enough doctors to keep up with demand. once again, leaving themselves sitting ducks for ambitious and hardworking nurses to pick off. if you ask me there should be np to md accelerated programs. that way nurses can continue to earn their autonomy and drs can protect their, what must be a copyrighted, name.
unless you want to post a link to your school's dnp curriculum that is going to be really hard to believe. i haven't seen a dnp program yet that didn't contain at least 50% fluff. fluff being courses in theory, management, ethics, statistics, business, education, etc. which may or may not be rigorous in nature but have zero to do with advanced clinical practice and knowledge, the stated purpose of the dnp.
"the program emphasizes the development of the student's capacity to impact the clinical setting as leaders and educators and to utilize clinical research to improve and transform health care. this program is based on the understanding that nursing provides services which includes the direct care of individual clients, management of care for populations, administration of nursing systems, and development and implementation of health policy. advanced practice nurses with practice doctorates will address significant practice issues in a scholarly way, adopt broad system perspectives for health promotion and risk reduction, and act as agents of change that transform client/community care, participate in the on-going evaluation of health care outcomes, and assist in the translation of research that leads to positive nursing practice changes.
the purposes of the doctor of nursing practice program are:
to prepare clinically focused advanced practice nurses who are capable of translating knowledge into the clinical setting that contributes to the positive development of individuals, families, communities, society and the discipline of nursing.
to prepare clinically focused advanced practice nurses who will be capable of addressing the multiple weaknesses in the current health care systems through roles as leaders, educators and agents of change.
to prepare leaders for the discipline and profession of nursing that will have the skills to address issues of health disparities in an urban environment. "
yes, you are correct, there are a lot of classes that are research, theory, and education focused, but as you can see from the above statement, that is the purpose of the dnp program. i certainly don't consider it "fluff". i am surprised that you do not think ebp is important to the nursing profession. although i admit that i am not a fan of theory per se, but it is necessary, and of course we had it in undergrad, and some in the masters programs. theory and research is one thing that seperated an associate degree from a bsn. dnp is being groomed to "think outside the box" above diagnosing and treating etc. this is supposed to be what seperates nursing from other health care diciplines. i will definately agree, that more clinical time, perhaps a residency, and more clinically based classes are needed. the degree is very new, and i am sure it will be revamped as time goes on. i personally would like more, and will not argue that it still needs work. i am not convinced that it will really become entry level criteria...they said for years that a bsn would be entry level, but there is no way they will be getting rid of an adn any time soon. if this creates a shortage of nps, i'm sure that they will keep back tracking. i am currently enrolled in the msn program, and made a personal choice to persue my dnp. i will say that the university of michigan, and wayne state university are phasing out the MSN programs already. u of m no longer offers msn, and wsu is accepting their last class fall 2009. so far the surrounding colleges still offer msn programs as well as dnp.
yes, you are correct, there are a lot of classes that are research, theory, and education focused, but as you can see from the above statement, that is the purpose of the dnp program. i certainly don't consider it "fluff".
of course ethics, statistics and management are not "fluff". that's ridiculous. besides, these courses are also taught in medical school. i guess it's only ridiculous if nurses are learning about it.
Of course ethics, statistics and management are not "fluff". That's ridiculous. Besides, these courses are also taught in medical school. I guess it's only ridiculous if nurses are learning about it.
Actually, they're not.
I had one seminar on ethics, once a week for four weeks. Everyone is presumed to have learned statistics as an undergraduate, along with the other basics like biochemistry, cellular biology, and basic writing. Management isn't even discussed.
istat
24 Posts
Actually worked with a DSN level NP who's last name was "Doctor". Oh man, did we have a lot of fun with that one.