An article appeared today in the New York Times as a followup to a bill passed in New York granting nurse practitioners the right to provide primary care without the oversight of a physician. The authors of the bill state "mandatory collaboration with a physician no longer serves a clinical purpose and reduces much-needed access to primary care". The need for more primary care providers is due to the shortage of primary-care physicians, the aging boomer population, and the Affordable Care Act.
Although the president of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners feels that the current "hierarchical, physician-centric structure" is not necessary, many physicians disagree citing that the clinical importance of the physician's expertise is being underestimated and that the cost-effectiveness of nurse practitioners is being over-estimated.
Many physicians also feel that "nurse practitioners are worthy professionals and are absolutely essential to patient care. But they are not doctors."
What are your thoughts on this? Where do nurse practitioners fit into the healthcare hierarchy?
I really need an NP to school me on scientific process...
Apparently you do because you have yet to produce any evidence. You have yet to even demonstrate your understanding of the process.
Why don't you just admit it: there is no evidence to support your position, the data that exists supports equal outcomes on defined quality outcome measures, and your opinion is one of bias and jealous from the perspective of a pre-clinician?
How do you know what it takes to be an effective clinician? You have never been a clinician. You "know" that because you were spoon fed that. The data tells a much different story.
Yeah, but all studies can be manipulated.....
Which is true if some dishonest advocacy researcher really wants to. However, for real honest research that can actually give us useable information from which we can make decisions, there are rules and procedures for how to design the study and carry it out. That's what you learn in a statistics class, and in classes on how to do research, so you can tell which studies are real and which are crap.
I'd be willing to bet this Gluteus character has never taken even undergraduate statistics. In fact, the maturity level of his posts indicates to me that he's more likely some pimply frat boy with nothing better to do on a Saturday night.
Which is true if some dishonest advocacy researcher really wants to. However, for real honest research that can actually give us useable information from which we can make decisions, there are rules and procedures for how to design the study and carry it out. That's what you learn in a statistics class, and in classes on how to do research, so you can tell which studies are real and which are crap.
I'd be willing to bet this Gluteus character has never taken even undergraduate statistics. In fact, the maturity level of his posts indicates to me that he's more likely some pimply frat boy with nothing better to do on a Saturday night.
A frat boy? Wrong... I think undergrad stats is required by state schools in my state to get a BSN... I even took Stochastic model, which is on a league of its own... I am not doing a contest here about classes and so on... i know a little bit about research since I am doing research now in med school and I might publish if I am lucky... It is not about that... It is about a profession that is taking the wrong turn and one can only get way with so much... Good luck if you think your profession is heading in the right direction...
Then post one, just one, high quality, peer reviewed, published study that supports your position.
You guys think your bogus studies along with screaming 'equal outcomes' from the roof of a tall building will make it so...You might fool some people with these nonsense, but you won't fool people who know about medicine... None of you have answered the concerns of that poster (post #487)...
So then, you'll be a physician that discounts everything published in reputable medical journals? JAMA is bogus? Because I think it was BostonFNP who pointed out that the studies showing equal outcomes have been published in JAMA and other reputable medical journals.
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
It was suggested we compare PA curriculum to the NP curriculum. So I did. I actually compared the PA and NP curriculums at the school I am attending for my NP. I'm honestly not impressed by the PA one to be honest...I'm sure it is fine for a PA but I'm missing the part where it is better than the NP. When I look at the NP curriculum I am also taking into consideration the RN and the BSN curriculums I had to take to even apply to the NP program. The FT option is only 2 years. So we are taking somebody with minimum medical experience and giving them 2 years of education and setting them free? Please tell me how that is better than NP? Oh wait they had to have patient experience to even get into PA? Sure...I know a guy (I really do) who is becoming an EMT. Here's the thing...when I was working on my RN there were those who were EMTs and now working on their RN. There's a big difference between EMT and even RN....so we are going to take an EMT and give them 2 years of education and be okay with it?
I'm sorry but I can't find where the PA program is superior to the NP. I just can't.
I can also give many anecdotal evidence of PAs who screwed up care...couldn't swab for strep, couldn't figure out a UTI, thought a culture while on antibiotics was a non-issue.
Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
I consider all NP schools diploma mills unless they change these curricula..
Do you realize that your opinion backed by your opinion is not considered reliable?
Just asking if you can recognize that your opinion may be important to you but has little meaning outside your head.
And all NP schools are diploma mills...yeah...than the diploma mill where I'm getting my NP must also be a mill for the PA program too right? I mean while a major university....once a diploma mill always a diploma mill right?
Do you realize that your opinion backed by your opinion is not considered reliable?
Just asking if you can recognize that your opinion may be important to you but has little meaning outside your head.
And all NP schools are diploma mills...yeah...than the diploma mill where I'm getting my NP must also be a mill for the PA program too right? I mean while a major university....once a diploma mill always a diploma mill right?
Major university does not mean anything to me... I got my BSN at a good state university and after 4 years working as a nurse, I decided to back to school so I can become a NP. I looked at a couple my state universities NP curricula I thought they must require more than that... then I called a former classmate who did her NP at one of these state schools right after getting her BSN; I asked if they require some more prereqs and I was shocked when se said no... I knew she only took high school chem, no general bio etc... and she told me these classes are not needed... I asked her if i had to take grad level A/P and she told me the AP we took in undergrad was enough... I was shocked to say the least!
I worked with a NP who became a physician (DO)... and I asked her opinion about NPs and she told me that NP can practice medicine, but she had very limited knowledge as a NP... and told me now looking back she thinks the NPs education she received was a joke (she was a NP for over 10 years, really)... It was amazing to hear that from a former NP... It was then I started doing more research and talked with physicians who have NP in their practices (they were very candid), and found out that NP was not for me... I just don't want to practice medicine, I just want to have the knowledge to practice medicine.
BostonFNP, APRN
2 Articles; 5,584 Posts
Apparently you do because you have yet to produce any evidence. You have yet to even demonstrate your understanding of the process.
Why don't you just admit it: there is no evidence to support your position, the data that exists supports equal outcomes on defined quality outcome measures, and your opinion is one of bias and jealous from the perspective of a pre-clinician?