Nurses who let NAs Boss them around

AutumnSunfire · Jun 5, 2003

RedHd5....when I did my NA course, we were expected to know how to do vitals...including bp's and we had to learn about care plans and a whole lot of other stuff..it was very interesting...We are now we're responsible to read care plans and keep up to date on them....I know with the teacher I had who is an RN, she was exceptional, she taught us everything....we benefitted big time from having her teach us! The sad part is not everyone has such an awesome teacher, and they don't even know how to get a urine spec or even give a supp.....it's the sad truth! So, it's not the education these days...the teachers play an importnat role in the education the students get....mine was awesome!!! The role of an NA is greater then it used to be...for example giving meds....is a big step for us....

Brita01 · Jun 6, 2003

Originally posted by AutumnSunfire
RedHd5....when I did my NA course, we were expected to know how to do vitals...including bp's and we had to learn about care plans and a whole lot of other stuff..it was very interesting...We are now we're responsible to read care plans and keep up to date on them....I know with the teacher I had who is an RN, she was exceptional, she taught us everything....we benefitted big time from having her teach us! The sad part is not everyone has such an awesome teacher, and they don't even know how to get a urine spec or even give a supp.....it's the sad truth! So, it's not the education these days...the teachers play an importnat role in the education the students get....mine was awesome!!! The role of an NA is greater then it used to be...for example giving meds....is a big step for us....

NAs in Canada give meds?? How long is the course?

tingle · Jun 6, 2003

I don't feel that you are taking into account the difficulty of the CNA position and the number of nurses that this person has to answer to. Does your institution have a Cna/nurse ratio??? How many nurses/patients do your CNAs have to answer to and/attend on an average basis. Is'nt our combined goal excellent patient care? Have you thought about helping your aides and not forget that poop/pee and humans need for water are also nurses concerns? I guess I feel that we should treat them witrh respect and (if you have never been there) try to understand that they have a very hard job and are not there to answer every nurses beckon call. What do your CNAs get PAID???What do your MacDonalds window people get paid? Is there a big difference in your area????

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jun 6, 2003

Was speaking to HR about stating salary for Experienced CNA's for our homecare agency.

$8.60 hr to start, raise in 6 months + $250.00 attendance, performance bonus every 3 months. Out of 100 aides, only ~3 aides qualify for the bonus quarterly.

MaryG · Jun 6, 2003

WOW Karen, I wish our facility was that kind. We(CNA's) started getting and extra $1.00 an hour for extra shifts when the nurses here negotiated their new contract. Kind of funny how that worked, huh? We have no extra kudos for anything like attendance.....we do have a program called the CEP....it's for aides that have a less than 2% absenteeism, attend alot of education, and participate in CQI teams(at least 2). It's a yearly program that we have to submit applications for every 6 months.....don't understand that and if you're out of work because of a work related injury or sickness....you're out of luck. I guess it's better than nothing.

ktwlpn, LPN · Jun 6, 2003

Originally posted by tingle
I don't feel that you are taking into account the difficulty of the CNA position and the number of nurses that this person has to answer to. Does your institution have a Cna/nurse ratio??? How many nurses/patients do your CNAs have to answer to and/attend on an average basis. Is'nt our combined goal excellent patient care? Have you thought about helping your aides and not forget that poop/pee and humans need for water are also nurses concerns? I guess I feel that we should treat them witrh respect and (if you have never been there) try to understand that they have a very hard job and are not there to answer every nurses beckon call. What do your CNAs get PAID???What do your MacDonalds window people get paid? Is there a big difference in your area????

Certified CNA's start at $11.20 an hour at my facility-I don't think that McD's comes close to that in this area(southeastern Pa) On my 44 bed unit I usually have 6 cna's-occassionally 7 and very occassionally 5(not good-we pitch in as much as possible on those days)I am on a locked dementia unit and the resident's abilities vary greatly-I have a few totally dependent and non-amb that will be moved off of our unit when we need the bed for an ambulatory resident.Most of our residents are ambulatory and need verbal cuing for adl's.While the cna's are doing the adls one nurse is pouring meds for all 44-many need MUCH encouragement to take those pills-you can't hold their nose and shove them in....The other nurse does the treatments,body checks on the residents after bathing(usually 6 or 8 a day) routine charting and takes care of doctor's rounds and any incidentals....Problems with visitors,with other departments etc all must be handled.I well know how hard the job is because I did it for many years ...Bottom line- the nurses are responsible for making sure that all aspects of the resident's care is being provided properly-and when the family comes in and wants to know why mom has not been to the beauty shop it's the nurse that has to make the arrangements-or why doesn't mom have her shoes,teeth,eyeglasses or red sweater on? (Because the cna did not put it on) But mom is happy with a good appetite and her CHF and hypothyroidism are stable because the nurse spends 10 mins encouraging her to take her meds...but that is usually not remarked upon-but let the cna forget those teeth..Both jobs are challenging and rewarding-but I can do the job of a cna and they cannot do mine....It's best for the whole unit when the team works cohesively-it improves resident care and morale..."one upping" each other is non-productive-Until you have done both jobs you can not knowledgibly compare the 2.....

muffylpn · Jun 7, 2003

I have the worst na in the world. The boss is aware but knows

that ifshe asks her to do something she will do it a heartbeat.

The boss is also she is happy she does not have to see her

because sshe works 11-7 with me. The first part of the night

11-1am she does her paperwork. Paperwork I have done in

45 min. She gets no bells, should for some reason she comes

upon someone she just comes back to the station and says

she does not understand what they want or she says " they

want to see the nurse". Only to find out when you get there

they are wet or need to go to the bathroom. When you

return and she has the gall to ask what they wanted she

then says " I don't know why they did not ask me, I would

have done it" ( this has been going on for 5 years). Between

1-5am it is now time for our series of smoking breaks. Each

break can last up to 45 mins. At 5am she then does some

real work at this time she then attempts to change all 20 Pts.

while getting as many up as she can. You ask why? Do we

have to do this? No, she likes the day cnas to think she is

wonder and who wouldn't - there is 3 cnas on days, 1 on 11-7

she does all/ atleast 1/2 of their work; which ofcourse the

7-3 nurses thinks she is great as well. You ask how does this

happen? She is best friends with the supervisor. So atleast

at my hospital on 11-7 the nurses pull double duty. Because

our supervisor is the meanest supervisor in the world.

funnygirl_rn · Jun 7, 2003

Originally posted by sjoe
"The root cause of these problems is management."

Let's call a spade a spade. In most cases, "management" is OTHER NURSES who got promoted simply by sticking around long enough.

I strongly agree with sjoe. Management could do more than just sweeping problems under the rug.

pcelest9 · Jun 8, 2003

Wow, lots of negative things regarding NA's. I wonder how much response I would get from my fellow students/NA', if I started a thread entitled "Why do some (Some), not all} know how to communicate with there SUPPORT STAFF! Some clinical personnel need to take a couple hospitality courses. Just be repectful, good grief guys?

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jun 8, 2003

Originally posted by tingle
I don't feel that you are taking into account the difficulty of the CNA position and the number of nurses that this person has to answer to. Does your institution have a Cna/nurse ratio??? How many nurses/patients do your CNAs have to answer to and/attend on an average basis. Is'nt our combined goal excellent patient care? Have you thought about helping your aides and not forget that poop/pee and humans need for water are also nurses concerns? I guess I feel that we should treat them witrh respect and (if you have never been there) try to understand that they have a very hard job and are not there to answer every nurses beckon call. What do your CNAs get PAID???What do your MacDonalds window people get paid? Is there a big difference in your area????

In the last LTC where I worked, CNAs with no experience who took a course for which they were paid at the unit got $10/hr to start.

I had several times more pts to care for than the CNAs. The CNAs got full breaks and took extra, sat around smoking and BSing while I ran my butt off. The truth is MANY CNAs are lazy, stupid and immoral.

This is a fact.

So, if you are a good CNA, why do you get defensive? No one is talking about you or directing their comments at you.

To all good CNAS- Don't waste your time defending BAD CNAs. They give a bad name to you. I am an excellent nurse, and I know that there are crappy nurses out there. I don't defend them!

I want them out of nursing because they hurt pts, and make thing so much harder for their co-workers.

BAD CNAS hurt you. Why defend them? Why make excuses for them?

woodymic · Jun 8, 2003

Personally, I've been lucky. I supervise 6 CNAs on night shift, every one an experienced veteran aide. There is plenty of laughter and fun, but only after everyone has cooperated to get the patients taken care of. I think sometimes age may play a role. All of these NOC aides are grown women. If a new CNA comes onto the shift, they take her/him in hand and teach them, often by example and always being available to help. On the day shift, the nurses have constant problems with the CNAs, who are all in their late teens. Zero cooperation among them and contagious bad attitude. Maybe they haven't 'developed' their work ethic? Or still have the high school mentality? I do know the day nurses are sick of treating them with kid gloves. The shortage of CNAs and cost of agency personel makes management overlook sometimes outrageous behavior.

ktwlpn, LPN · Jun 8, 2003

Originally posted by pcelest9
Wow, lots of negative things regarding NA's. I wonder how much response I would get from my fellow students/NA', if I started a thread entitled "Why do some (Some), not all} know how to communicate with there SUPPORT STAFF! Some clinical personnel need to take a couple hospitality courses. Just be repectful, good grief guys?

I hear lots of negativity every day-starting in moring report and continuing through the dayfrom several cna'.They complain about everything they have to do and God fobid I have t ask them to do something outside of their regular routine.Sorry-I don't always have time to "stroke" an ego when I am asking someone to do something.My supervisor expects me to act a certain way and I do so-can't I expect the same? When I am told to do something I just do it....