Nurses Hit Union and Medical Center with Federal Charges for Violating Their Freedom

[Sherwood]

The California Nurses Association is again attempting to organize Western Medical Center Santa Ana, California apparently using the Tenet/CNA Neutrality Agreement that has already been deemed unlawful assistance to the union and in violation of employee rights by the NLRB.

The Neutrality Agreement gags our management and administration from discussing their views on unionizing or educating the Nursing staff on their employee rights. It also limits how nurses opposed to unionizing can have their voice be heard. The California Nurses Association is free to to say and promise whatever they want.

While the current owners of Western Medical Center were not party to the back door deal with Tenet and the CNA, they were stuck with successorship language in the CNA contract.

I have filed a class action suit against both the CNA and the administration of Western Medical Center hoping to have the contract ruled illegal. While this will not prevent the union from attempting to organize, it will allow a more level playing field if there is such a thing when dealing with a labor union.

See http://www.stopunions.com for more information and a link to the press release.

Sherwood

[Sheri257]

I'm in Arizona which has excellent wages and patient some patient ratios mandated without unions.

I've got to disagree with you here. The average Arizona RN wage is $56K a year, which is $14,000 a year less than what the average California RN makes. Maybe there's less of a difference when you adjust for the cost of living but, I don't think you can go as far as to say that's excellent either. $56K a year is about average and about the same wages you can make in other states.

As far as ratios: I personally have met too many travelers who've worked both states and say they won't go back to Arizona because of high ratios. They said the work loads were too much after working in California where ratios are mandated by law.

Just my personal opinion but, if ratios aren't mandated by law then ... you can't count on it. And, btw, you don't have to join a union to benefit from ratios in California because it's the law.

:typing

[RN34TX]

Just my personal opinion but, if ratios aren't mandated by law then ... you can't count on it. And, btw, you don't have to join a union to benefit from ratios in California because it's the law.

:typing

And it's the law largely thanks to a union.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

Card check and neutrality agreements are perfectly legal. If the majority of the employees affiliate with a union the employer agrees to recognize the union without an election and bargain in good faith. It is absolutely the right of employees to not exercise their first amendment right to freedom of association for collective bargaining. As for me my experience tells me that a clear consistent voice from the bargaining group yields the best average results for the employees. (Side deals have a tendency to smack of favoritism). As for me I will join the nurses union after I graduate from nurses training in Dec 07.

[nyforlove]

AMEN!! It never ceases to amaze me how nurses just don't get it. The demise of unions in this country over the last ten or so years, has led to stagnant pay, outsourcing, pension plundering, and underfunding, and the out right assault on workers rights. THERE IS POWER IN NUMBERS!!

I stated on another thread, that an employee who truly thinks that they can speak for themselves, achieve what CNA has, with staffing rations, pay, benefits, workplace protection, fighting the "Barons" of political power (Arnie!), has delusions of grandeur. You cannot accomplish what experienced negotiators have, because you don't have the experience. Nurses also lack knowledge of Employment Law and Administrative Law, to be able to successfully advocate for themselves in an employment dispute.

Nurses will never achieve the control the profession, until we organize and take over with our own power.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

This all sounds good, but I remain ambivalent re: Unions due to their apparent tendency to fight for members who are not at all competent to continue being employed.....rather than impair their credibility by fighting for people who refuse to answer the phone if it's "not my job," they could work to improve patient care and nurse working conditions by focusing on substantive matters. I remain open to the idea and, on another thread, discuss the "pros and cons" as I look for my first nursing job....

[nyforlove]

Perhaps $$$ has interfered with my morals.

With CNA I invest a little less than $1000 a year and make more than 100K as a brand new nurse. (Ok, $97,000 regularly scheduled 36 a week but currently on track for making more than $120,000 with minimal OT--it all depends how you schedule it--trust me I don't do much extra, I pretty much hate my job :)

I don't agree with all that CNA does and perhaps they are being a little shady in this particular case. But for me, there are far worse things happening in our country and world right now to get all riled up about. I'm happy with my ratios/work rules/fair compensation. I admire Sherwood and those others on this board that I have read be so passionately anti- union. More power to 'em. I always admire anyone willing to do this job for the horrendous and insulting wages many nurses receive. (Seriously, my co-workers in the south, god bless ya--I couldn't walk a mile in your shoes) But to not only do it but fight for it! You go, Sherwood!

I truly encourage all to fight for their right NOT to organize----meanwhile I'll be by the pool......

WOW--is this standard starting pay for San Francisco new grads? Or are you an exceptional case, i.e., nurse practitioner with a prior career as a hospital administrator? Top NYC pay (including night differential) for a new grad RN is low 70's....

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

I was speaking with a friend last night. She told me what she was paid for her first nursing job in 1976 as an RN. It was $3.20 per hour! (And that was considered a GOOD wage!) (Minimum wage was -if memory serves me-$2.35/hour that year.)

She attributed the improvement in wages and working conditions for nurses since 1976 to the power of collective bargaining.

[azhiker96, BSN, RN]

i've got to disagree with you here. the average arizona rn wage is $56k a year, which is $14,000 a year less than what the average california rn makes. maybe there's less of a difference when you adjust for the cost of living but, i don't think you can go as far as to say that's excellent either. $56k a year is about average and about the same wages you can make in other states.

:typing

we bought our 1600sf 3/2 home 5 years ago for $149k. it was 5 years old at that time and this is in a good neighborhood in the phoenix metroplex. i don't think i would be able to purchase a similar home in california even with an extra $14k per year.

i don't think we have mandated staffing for med/surg but we do for icu, 1:2 nurse/patient, and i know these numbers are applied where i work in pacu for all patients. the actual rules are in section 220 of this dry reading, http://www.azsos.gov/public_services/title_09/9-10.htm

if i felt abused or neglected at work i'd be happy to consider a union. i have great managers who treat us fairly and with respect. i just can't see repaying great managers by voting in a union. sure, a union might be able to get me a few extra bucks. if i wanted to chase dollars though i'd go to med school or move to california.

[Miss Mab]

Actually, i think five years ago, you actually could have bought that house....

I'm glad I won't be considered as someone "chasing" the $$$ as I grew up here and am just thankfully in the right place at the right time.

[pickledpepperRN]

Web site of the organization that lobbied for the ICU ratio in Arizona:

http://www.saznc.homestead.com/

It is true that where there is safe nursing care staffing and standards and good management there will be little or no interest in a union.

[Sherwood]

Perhaps $$$ has interfered with my morals.

With CNA I invest a little less than $1000 a year and make more than 100K as a brand new nurse. (Ok, $97,000 regularly scheduled 36 a week but currently on track for making more than $120,000 with minimal OT--it all depends how you schedule it--trust me I don't do much extra, I pretty much hate my job :)

I don't agree with all that CNA does and perhaps they are being a little shady in this particular case. But for me, there are far worse things happening in our country and world right now to get all riled up about. I'm happy with my ratios/work rules/fair compensation. I admire Sherwood and those others on this board that I have read be so passionately anti- union. More power to 'em. I always admire anyone willing to do this job for the horrendous and insulting wages many nurses receive. (Seriously, my co-workers in the south, god bless ya--I couldn't walk a mile in your shoes) But to not only do it but fight for it! You go, Sherwood!

I truly encourage all to fight for their right NOT to organize----meanwhile I'll be by the pool......

Wow, thanks for the compliments I think. I thought this thread died on the vine but I guess I was wrong. It just took a while before you all started reading it.

I am glad you are making good wages Miss Mab, we at make damn good wages too and it keeps getting better all the time without the interference of the CNA. What fuels the the salary increases is good ol supply and demand coupled with the fact that California has a whole lot of hospitals that need nurses and if the pay and benefits are not there management has huge recruitment and retention issues.

The bottom line is that management has to pay up to keep up and keep us. We are respected professionals in huge demand. We do not need to pay the Union Bosses to watch our backs. Nurses who think they do and fall for the union organizers rhetoric are what is holding back the profession. The union organizers try to convince us that we are weak and meek little nurses who need big brother union to "protect" us and "speak" for us. We went to college and survived nursing school for goodness sake! We stand up for ourselves and our patients everyday.

If you believe that you are weak and need protection then that is how you will be perceived and that is how you will remain. This is how the union survives and this is how our fight to be recognized as professionals will die on the vine and we will once again be labeled as "labor" and the doctors will start calling us "honey" again. Rose Ann Demoro and her lieutenant's will just sit back and smile and watch the money roll in.

[Sherwood]

You are correct that we usually only have newspaper reports to go by rather than the actual documents. Maybe Sherwood could put a copy of the document on his website. I don't know of that would violate any legal confidentiality. If it's part of a court filing I would think it's public domain.

It's funny how you find the same thing with Union/Anti-union that you often see with Democrat/Republican. There are lots of hard core that support/criticize no matter what. Independant thought and evaluation are not included.

I am behind on this thread, I used to get email notification when someone replied to a thread started. Maybe that feature was removed.

I do have a copy of the Neutrality Agreement, it is a long boring document but oh so dangerous. I will try and get a copy of it up on the website for all to see soon. The CNA has a copy, why don't they pass it around for everyone to see?

[Sherwood]

This whole thing doesn't make any sense to me. They seem to be saying CNA is bargaining illegally but then they seem to be saying that CNA is out but they're trying to get back in with a new election where the opponents are somehow gagged. Which is it?

Sherwood is claiming his employer is unfairly gagged by contract language but then the other press release says he's suing his employer for illegal practicies. What does that mean?

Especially if the neutrality agreement was thrown out by the NLRB. Why not ignore it and just do what you want? It makes no sense.

I also don't see any links to the actual contract language and/or agreements to back up any of these claims. Also, one nurse (Sherwood) has filed a charge, not a bunch of "nurses."

All of these statements are about as clear as mud. Also, does anyone believe that union opponents won't be able to voice their opposition in one form or another? That's ridiculous.

Show me the actual documents and/or contract language that somehow prevents union opponents from expressing their opinion. I'd really like to read it. Otherwise, I don't see any real evidence here to back up these claims ... only press releases that make a bunch of wild accusations that don't make any sense.

I am sorry you "don't get it" Liz. I guess if everyone got it then we would not have to deal with the unions in the first place. I have had to explain it to a lot of people both for and against the union. I am sure you know how exciting contracts and legal mumbo jumbo can be. It reads like your mortgage loan documents. Most just sign on the dotted line like they are told and believe that no one is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. How trusting!

Perhaps the press release is vague and if I posted an actual copy of the neutrality agreement then it would help clear things up. I will work on it.

As for me filing charges and not a "bunch" of nurses? Well, most of us don't like to stick their necks out fight for what they believe is right. I am not one of them. This whole fight takes a lot of my personal time and money. The CNA organizers and union supporters twist my words and say and post awful things about me. It is hurtful but it' s a free country for now...

If you want to email me at: [email protected] Liz, I can forward what I have to you it might be faster then waiting for me to get it up on stopunions.com