what do nurses hate about doctors?

Scooter321 · Jul 12, 2008

I think the mere fact that you came on here and asked for nurses' opinions speaks volumes. I'd be more than happy to work with you. :up:

SecondGenRN · Jul 12, 2008

Not trying to start a flamewar here or anything like that but as an incoming MS I this fall, what are some of the things that doctors do that usually ****** off a nurse? Dr's yelling about missing charts? Yelling for waking them up in the middle of the night? Give me a list so that when I become an MD, I'll be aware of these things and try to avoid them.

writing legibly would be wonderful!

RN1982 · Jul 12, 2008

My favorite is when the docs come to write orders on their patients and never go in to assess the patient.

Also, I have had docs talk down to me, but if they think that I am going to take it they are wrong. Talk down to me, I dare you.

RN1982 · Jul 12, 2008

Had a doctor who came to see his patient and he couldn't find the chart. Well, the patient just got back from CT scan with the STAT nurse and the RN forgot to bring the chart to the desk and left it on the portable monitor cart. So after looking for it for a few minutes and the doctor was becoming impatient, I found it. He had the nerve to ask in a very snippy tone "Where was it?".. Me: 'What does it matter, you have it now don't you."

michaelarose · Jul 12, 2008

Not trying to start a flamewar here or anything like that but as an incoming MS I this fall, what are some of the things that doctors do that usually ****** off a nurse? Dr's yelling about missing charts? Yelling for waking them up in the middle of the night? Give me a list so that when I become an MD, I'll be aware of these things and try to avoid them.

Huge egos, lack of humility, bad bedside manner, the GOD complex, condescending behavior, laziness, not putting charts back to their rightful place, believing the only people in the world worth respect outside of their families are other doctors, NOT WASHING THEIR HANDS before going to see patients, getting upset when being corrected by nurses, not answering pages, maybe I should stop, I getting upset.

All I'm saying is that nurses are people too, and if it hadn't been for nurses during the Crimean war, MDs wouldn't be anywhere near where they are today. Treat the nurses with respect, and they will break their neck to do exactly what you need for your patients... why because they have a doctors willing to work with them instead of against them.

michaelarose · Jul 12, 2008

My favorite is when the docs come to write orders on their patients and never go in to assess the patient.
Also, I have had docs talk down to me, but if they think that I am going to take it they are wrong. Talk down to me, I dare you.

Better yet, doctors that want you to take a verbal order, while they are standing right next to you. I just calmly hand them the chart and walk away. That bull crap about being too busy to write an order irks me beyond belief.

Doctors need to learn that nurses are not their personal servants.

michaelarose · Jul 12, 2008

3. treat your nurses and allied health care members with friendliness and respect. remember, nurses are the backbone of health care. without them, doctors will be doing more work.

i don't think doctors realize how true this is, nursing alone has concepts that a lot of people don't understand.

RN1982 · Jul 12, 2008

Better yet, doctors that want you to take a verbal order, while they are standing right next to you. I just calmly hand them the chart and walk away. That bull crap about being too busy to write an order irks me beyond belief.
Doctors need to learn that nurses are not their personal servants.

I do that to. As soon as they give me the verbal order, I hand them the chart. And I rarely take verbal orders over the phone only by principle. I've had docs say that they didn't give me an order even though I called them.

judy4u · Jul 12, 2008

thanx for writing this example, this happends alot.... we can't change doctor but we can try are best to care for our pationt's

becembrie · Jul 12, 2008

Years ago when I was a very young nurse, I was doing relief charge on the PM shift. One of the surgeons who was pretty sure he was GOD was sitting at the nurses station charting. I had to kneel down at a filing cabinet right next to him. At that point he turns to me and says "are you the head nurse?" Being naive and a bit intimidated I replied "yes". He then looks directly in my eyes and says "while you're down there".

I was shocked. I never said anything, I just got up and walked away. I didn't know how to respond, but it has left a lasting impression on me. I was mortified, but not confident enough to report him or say anything.

I am hoping that now that I've had a few kids and some life experiences, I would be able to deal with this type of treatment from a physician. I doubt this is the norm, but it has always been one of those bad memories from my early nursing experiences.

JaneyW · Jul 12, 2008

Not keeping up with current practice. I am an OB nurse, and my own evidence-based practice is different now than the old hold your breath and count to ten and lay the patient flat on her back and legs up in stirrups that the MD might have learned 15 -20 years ago. It irks me to no end when I am helping a patient push in the manner supported by recent research and advocated by my professional organization only to have the MD come in and tell me I'm doing it all wrong and why isn't the patient flat and why is she making so much noise while she pushes (um, open glottis anyone?). It makes me look like an idiot in front of the patient and that is NOT appreciated. Oh, and always remember that pt safety is ALWAYS more important than your ego or your dinner reservations or your sleep.

Listen to the nurses even after you start practicing--they may have some valuable info for you. I worked at a teaching hospital for a couple of years. Good luck to you as you begin your journey--you have a lot ahead of you!

NoviceToExpert · Jul 12, 2008

Here's some advice from me... I'm a CTICU nurse...

First of all, I'm not responsible for keeping the chart available... I use the chart and put it where it belongs... if it's not there later because some other physician or case manager or allied health collaborative clinician didn't put it back... you can look for it as easily as me... not my job to bring you a chart...

If you round or come to care for OUR patient... then read the progress notes... it seems like most physicians think the chart is to write their orders in... when in fact, it is a central body of knowledge that carries a continuum of information that you and I and every other care provider is responsible for... so don't write for Solumedrol without knowing the patient is already on a Medrol dose pack...because that takes 15 minutes out of my day to track you down, fix the order with pharmacy...and I need to be at the bedside instead or doing something far more important... be familiar with current orders other physician's have added... and truly collaborate instead of just doing your own thing... because when that doesn't happen I have to play "post office" and alert consults what has happened with the attending and then the attending I have to alert as to what has happened with consulting physicians...

Don't look at current vital sign snippets out of the computer and prescribe based on them... TALK to the nurses... I am at the bedside all day, every minute... I can tell you why the vitals trended in a certain direction during a period of time...maybe we were turning or proning the ARDS patient and it is not a hypertensive crisis... I can give you information important to your differential that you won't get from the chart...

When you round ask me what I need as far as meeting nursing's goals... Physician's rarely ask what nursing needs for the patient... Sign your restraint orders timely... NEVER reneg on a verbal order you gave...you'll lose the privilege to give verbal orders or may find yourself in the position of being put on hold waiting for a second nurse to witness your verbal because of untrustworthiness...

Physicians that encourage collaborative communication have better outcomes because they know more about the patient because they create a culture or exchange... Physicians that dismiss nurses in my opinion are working with a handicap... they are blind to critical information...

Ask me about the family dynamics... DO NOT provide false hope to your patient's or their loved ones... because I am picking up those pieces when things go bad...

Get informed consent how it is supposed to be gotten... informed means the patient or POA has been informed... be clear and speak on the patient's level...

Patients nod their heads to docs all the time because they want to please them... 90% of the time the patient will ask me what you said as soon as you leave the room... Assess your patient's literacy... some cannot read or write and are very adept at functioning in society without anyone knowing... when they don't show up at your follow-up it may because they cannot read the bus schedule or find your office...

Nursing is a distinct discipline with it's own diagnostic base and own care plans... Pick up a NANDA diagnoses book and get an idea of our scope... I once heard a very astute surgeon say "Patient's are nursed backed to health, not doctored back to health..."

Realize that your patient's outcome is HUGELY dependent on good nursing...ENABLE nursing to carry out high quality care...

Be familiar with the current studies by JCAHO and the upcoming (Jan. 09) standards on disruptive and abusive behaviors...

When you write orders after rounding, write legibly... also, it is better for our patient if you catch me on the way out of the unit to give me a heads up on what you are changing and why... I will ultimately get the orders carried out more quickly... many doctors write orders and leave the chart somewhere in the nursing station instead of returning it to the unit clerk to take the orders off... my hands are so full coding my first patient with one hand and providing mouthcare near simultaneously to prevent aspiration down the hall for my other patient... sometimes I don't see the chart for a couple of hours... it will be sitting in a physician cubby with unseen orders... and that would be the physician's fault... When you write for a study that requires NPO after midnight... change the dietary orders...the only way to ensure the pt is going to be NPO is to make sure that dietary doesn't have an order to deliver a tray... don't yell at me when a tray slips by when the NPO order isn't written... don't assume the pt won't get a meal... Yes, we'll intercept trays... but when there is a crashing patient, mine or otherwise, intercepting at tray is not my priority... so don't scream about the cost of another night's care on a 23 hour observation because a tray slipped by when an NPO order was never read...

Be familiar with what nurses really do... we do a milliion things doctors are not aware of...

When cases are mismanaged because of a plethora of different reasons... realize that the nursing care and the nurse's rapport with the patient and family will cover your legal behind... no kidding... lawsuits are prevented by good nursing and family rapport...read the literature on these issues...

Press-Ganey and patient satisfaction are greatly dependent on nursing... if you want your practice built in hospital you want your patients to have no second thoughts about admission... Press-Ganey scores are not exponentiated by nurses that are condescended to by physicians...

Be willing to teach... and be willing to learn... nobody knows everything... and everybody knows something... there's a good chance an experienced nurse has already seen a similar case that mystifies you... encourage communication...Nurses are highly specialized in their practice... a good CTICU nurse will blow away a renal doc with EKG interpretation... I recently had a hematologist tell me she lost her EKG skills after her residency... Unless you are in cadiology I'll probably see the Lown-Ganong-Lavine before you... and I'll know why an increased HR is more critical to address in this patient...

It's 2008... Nurses are part of the health care team... We are the eyes of constant surveillance that can provide you with an enormous amount of information...if you want to really know about your patient... ask the nurse...

There are still physicians that think nurses should be wearing white tights and hats... and will openly say so... there are still physicians that think we should vacate our chair for them to sit... NOT... we are a team... treat us a vital players...

Follow hospital policy... you can print out a med rec as easily as I can... make sure you check all boxes on your med rec so I don't have to track you down to address a med that was right in front of you to determine if you want to continue or discontinue it after transferring the patient...

Ask me what I think...as a habit...

When a nurse calls you to alert you to an order the nurse questions... thank the nurse for questioning the order... you will make mistakes on your orders... once in a blue moon the wrong dosage will be written, the wrong med, etc. etc... We'll cover you on that... An order may be higher than usual dosage and may be fully intended... thank the nurse for calling and encourage that behavior... because you definitely want the nurse to feel fully comfortable calling when there is an unintended error... and when there is, be grateful to the nurse for catching it and don't pretend it wasn't a mistake at the patient's expense...

I commend you for doing a little field research on how to facilitate teamwork... it is evident that is important to you... I hope they don't change you before you finish...and I hope you stay committed to a culture of collaboration... often that word just looks pretty on the hospital core values bulletin...