Published
Please take a second to vote on the poll, then leave your comments. It will be interesting to see what the allnurses.com membership thinks.
Please do not turn this thread into a Political discussion, argument or debate. It is just intended to poll our nursing audience on the question.
Feel free to leave civil comments and your opinion whether you agree or disagree, but please no arguing and fueding :)
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Disclaimer: This is by no means a scientific poll Just for entertainment purpose.
Thanks and have a great day!
med-surg 32,
here is something from an article: "greek debt woes ripple outward, from asia to u.s." by [color=#004276]nelson d. schwartz and [color=#004276]eric dash
published: may 8, 2010in today's new york times about the effect of greece's troubles:
“greece may just be an early warning signal,” said byron wien, a prominent wall street strategist who is vice chairman of blackstone advisory partners. “the u.s. is a long way from being where greece is, but the developed world has been living beyond its means and is now being called to account.”
i can't say that i agree that this whole episode is a result of countries of the "developed world" living beyond their means. i believe that becoming reliant on other countries, rather than on one's own, for financial security is a false premise. that is not how canada has maintained its world standing, but i do think that europe has done that to ward off future wars, by being financially dependent upon one another.
thank you for your kind words. we have breast cancer experience in common. i lost my left breast in 1974, and my right one in 1978. so far so good, despite statistics that are dismal for 20+ years of survival...... possibly due to advancing age.
speaking of that, now that i am 71 and have several gi health problems, i'm not sure that i have many more productive years in nursing. i have been working voluntarily to stress the importance of education on the prevention of illness, not in any official capacity. however as a public speaker i have impact on people's understanding of the current reforms, and the positive intentions of our present administration.
68drop. Yes, you are 28 years old and are much wiser than me. I won't lump you in with anyone. I have faced numerous medical issues with both my wife and I the past 7 years including multiple bouts of cancer. I have been nearly bankrupted by cobra payments that I am forced to make due to not daring to discontinue coverage due to pre-existing conditions. I am assuming you are healthy and obviously young. So you like your healthcare coverage or haven't needed to use it much. Good for you. But (I am assuming here) you are a NURSE and have had some experiences on insurance and pharmacy coverage. Give me some specific examples of how these entities are promoting the general public welfare and are not overwhelminingly interested in profits. Give me some examples of what you believe should be done for healthcare reform. I assume you have some opinon. You are a nurse. You work in the field. Let me know your specific plan.
I have expressed my opinion. You need but only to read my posts.
I am sorry about your wife, and your inability to find affordable health insurance due to pre existing injuries. I do have compassion which is why I nursing is the field I chose. I dont mean to offend you with my opinions but id rather offend someone with my honesty, then to offend them with lies. Insurance companies want profits, sure, thats what keeps them afloat.
To be honest, i dont know exactly what to do with health care because there are a ton of variables. BUT, I do know forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. AND making working Americans pay for things that unwilling americans wont is just as bad.
Excuse me. Forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional???? For instance auto insurance. But I guess no one FORCES you to pay that. And of course the old devil taxes. No one forces you to pay that. And if you want to drive, a license. But I suppose you don't get forced to pay for that either. What are you trying to say? You are FORCED to buy all kinds of things in this society! And as far as "unwilling" Americans, I believe a majority of Americans in almost every poll I read were in favor of at least a PUBLIC OPTION to have government provided healthcare. AN OPTION. That means no one is forced to take it. Tell me what is wrong with AN OPTION? The right wing and the Obama haters would cut off their noses to spite their faces. They don't want reform. They want conflict.
med-surg 32,here is something from an article: "greek debt woes ripple outward, from asia to u.s." by [color=#004276]nelson d. schwartz and [color=#004276]eric dash
published: may 8, 2010in today's new york times about the effect of greece's troubles:
"greece may just be an early warning signal," said byron wien, a prominent wall street strategist who is vice chairman of blackstone advisory partners. "the u.s. is a long way from being where greece is, but the developed world has been living beyond its means and is now being called to account."
i can't say that i agree that this whole episode is a result of countries of the "developed world" living beyond their means. i believe that becoming reliant on other countries, rather than on one's own, for financial security is a false premise. that is not how canada has maintained its world standing, but i do think that europe has done that to ward off future wars, by being financially dependent upon one another.
thank you for your kind words. we have breast cancer experience in common. i lost my left breast in 1974, and my right one in 1978. so far so good, despite statistics that are dismal for 20+ years of survival...... possibly due to advancing age.
speaking of that, now that i am 71 and have several gi health problems, i'm not sure that i have many more productive years in nursing. i have been working voluntarily to stress the importance of education on the prevention of illness, not in any official capacity. however as a public speaker i have impact on people's understanding of the current reforms, and the positive intentions of our present administration.
sorry to to hear that you are a fellow survivor, good for me to hear about long term survivors, although i may not agree with you 100% i admire your fight, your thoughtful posts, and drive for justice.
I have expressed my opinion. You need but only to read my posts.I am sorry about your wife, and your inability to find affordable health insurance due to pre existing injuries. I do have compassion which is why I nursing is the field I chose. I dont mean to offend you with my opinions but id rather offend someone with my honesty, then to offend them with lies. Insurance companies want profits, sure, thats what keeps them afloat.
To be honest, i dont know exactly what to do with health care because there are a ton of variables. BUT, I do know forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. AND making working Americans pay for things that unwilling americans wont is just as bad.
The pre existing conditions has been removed in my state and it is only fair, insurance companies are able to survive but my state also has one of the most expensive insurance costs.
Excuse me. Forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional???? For instance auto insurance. But I guess no one FORCES you to pay that. And of course the old devil taxes. No one forces you to pay that. And if you want to drive, a license. But I suppose you don't get forced to pay for that either. What are you trying to say? You are FORCED to buy all kinds of things in this society! And as far as "unwilling" Americans, I believe a majority of Americans in almost every poll I read were in favor of at least a PUBLIC OPTION to have government provided healthcare. AN OPTION. That means no one is forced to take it. Tell me what is wrong with AN OPTION? The right wing and the Obama haters would cut off their noses to spite their faces. They don't want reform. They want conflict.
This is a false comparison that is always being used. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege. You can be denied it. Also, I am not required to have auto insurance to walk down the street, only if I'm driving. I'm not even required to insure myself. I just have to have enough coverage for those I might harm.
What makes the Public Option unconstitutional is that to live in the US you are required to purchase a product/service. If you don't have it you will be fined or go to jail. And just because you name something an OPTION doesn't make it so. In a few years the government plan will be all that's available.
And lastly, I don't hate Obama, but I do hate the public Option. I would love to see reform. But not THIS one or THIS way.
Excuse me. Forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional???? For instance auto insurance. But I guess no one FORCES you to pay that. And of course the old devil taxes. No one forces you to pay that. And if you want to drive, a license. But I suppose you don't get forced to pay for that either. What are you trying to say? You are FORCED to buy all kinds of things in this society! And as far as "unwilling" Americans, I believe a majority of Americans in almost every poll I read were in favor of at least a PUBLIC OPTION to have government provided healthcare. AN OPTION. That means no one is forced to take it. Tell me what is wrong with AN OPTION? The right wing and the Obama haters would cut off their noses to spite their faces. They don't want reform. They want conflict.
Lets be rational here for a minute please. First of all you dont NEED a car. It is not a necessity its a privilege to own and operate a car. So forcing you to pay for auto insurance is what comes with the choice you make to own a car. Making people buy health insurance is completely different. Not everyone needs it or wants it for that matter. So if we are comparing things lets compare apples to apples, not to oranges.
And as far as the option goes, its a bunch of hogwash to get americans feel semi comfortable before the sand paper covered rod is inserted where the sun doesnt shine. Big businesses will drop all health insurance for its basic workers because they will save money by doing so and that will force people into the system because they wont be able to afford it on their own due to the increases by insurance companies because of everyone else not paying into it.
After all is said and done, the reason I don't like this bill (apart from the fact it won't work) is it is designed to take from one person and give to another. I don't have great insurance, but it's OK. After the bill kicks in it will be a lot worse. People have said that if we don't take care of the people without insurance we don't care. We are heartless. We are DISCRIMINATING against the poor/sick. I can't disagree more. There is a group of people being discriminated against. It is the people who are not poor (and this includes the rich) or have insurance. We are being attacked, having our wealth taken from us, and are being slandered. We are going to have years of our lives taken from us as we are not allowed to get the health care we are able to get now. We are being dragged down to the lower levels of insurance. But I have to admit, we WILL all be equal.
Let me tell you what we are loosing. We are loosing innovation, new technology, LIFE. YES, I said life. Because we are killing ourselves. We are not being allowed to use what is freely available to all. The only issue is how you pay for it. For the rich and insured it is not as much of a problem (but we can also be denied). It is the uninsured who have the problem. There are not as many of them as you would think. A figure of 40 million people has been thrown around, but it is more like 8 - 12 million.
We need to deal with this. The democrats say that the public option is the way to go, and then say that no-one else has offered up an alternative. The Republicans want to give tax credits so people can buy insurance (including those on medicaid). That would cast a small fraction of the public option. But the Dems buried it and it was never heard from again.
Medicine that we have now was developed by the rich, for the rich, and those with insurance who could pay for it. The price had to be paid by someone. After it was developed, it got cheaper through use and mass/improved production, and now the poorer people got the benefit of it (granted, later then the rich who paid for it). It then goes around the world and every one benefits from it. That will now end.
As a final thought, the cost of the public option has increased by approx $150 billion to more then a trillion $. It hasn't even started yet. How much will it actually cost once people start using it?
Sorry for the rant. It was meant to be shorter, but refused to stop.
Oh geez, I just have to present another example of what is necessary to join the human race in most communities. If you want to go outside, without being acused of being lewd, you must have clothing..... If you want to survive, you need shelter, water, food, etc. and money coming in to get those things, so work is a necessity. To work, you need to be healthy, so you'll need a means of obtaining health care. If you want to own your own business, you'll need to provide health care insurance for your employees, as labor laws require that.
Life is not composed of free things or privileges, it is those requirements for an enjoyable, comfortable life for which we volunteeringly work. Sure you could be homeless, leech off others, battle for necessities of life as our prehistoric ancestors did, but it is generally accepted that there are some things that are required, though not exactly basic for a comfortable existance. So it's no act of generosity to provide compulsory health insurance. It's a necessity.
Wellness is one of our basic needs to function in this world. It is our responsibility and honor to achieve them by civilised means, such as electing government officials who enact reasonable measures for that. (Although recently some elected officials have demonstrated regression to former prehistoric levels of thought.)
So let's leave this idea of privilege and be reasonable about the responsibility of residents in the USA to share developments in modern medicine, so those without the means acquired by many others, can be availed of health care. Certainly since the wealthiest among us have been provided opportunities to have that, and wouldn't suffer terribly of deprivention of a very small portion (1.8%) of their yearly earned resources, it is reasonable to require that contribution of them.
It would be good to be specific when citing that ONLY the public option will be chosen as mnore affordable, since the Reform of Health Care Insurance Act requires employers to provide private insurance coverage for their employees. Read the thing yourselves, please and don't make the assumption that those passing around anti-democratic party propaganda, have correctly interpreted it. They have not, and propogate lies to frighten people. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM!!
Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN
3,181 Posts
I am sorry I used Fineman as source; here is the source document
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Tax_Plan_Facts_FINAL.pdf
I am sorry that you have lost it all. It must be very painful. After living through a life threatening crisis of having very aggressive breast cancer and lived with uncertainty . What it taught me is to be flexible and re invent yourself. I know how life can be very unpredictable. I am finding it very difficult to live with the President's tax cuts, with $3.00 a gallon gas and increasing tax burden being imposed on me.
In my very liberal state, when the increase was not passed, the state has a check box for voluntary taxes, no one has paid the extra tax. When you were making a large salary did you donate extra tax money, I am sure your state would have taken it.
Check out the Federal Register, it is overwhelming what CMS is looking for, there must be a job opportunity for you if you are looking for one.
PS With all your administrative experience, I am surprised despite your age you are not grabbed up, with your knowledge of JC, CMS, DPH, BOM regulations you would be a jewel. All hospitals are now getting millions of dollars to implement EHR, with your knowledge ( 48 years with successful surveys - not many could say that) you could be used to implement clinical systems.