can somebody please tell me just one thing the government has controlled that worked?????? cause i can't think of one! government controlling healthcare is a horrible idea. it already annoys me that my 88 yr old granny with parkinson's dz can't afford her medication (yep, medicare is a joke! ever heard of the 'donut hole'?) but then we have people, fully capable of working and supporting their children, walking around getting free medical care & paying $1 for their prescriptions. what a load of crap!!!! my granny can't work, but most of these slackers that have free medicaid can work, they just don't!
if you keep giving people stuff for free, they have no initiative to work. obamacare is a joke in my opinion. the healthcare system would be ok if there wasn't so much fraud!@
if you keep giving people stuff for free, they have no initiative to work.
this is the truth. anyone living in california can tell you that. they want the rest of the country to be as welfare dependent as this worthless state.
can somebody please tell me just one thing the government has controlled that worked?????? cause i can't think of one! government controlling healthcare is a horrible idea. it already annoys me that my 88 yr old granny with parkinson's dz can't afford her medication (yep, medicare is a joke! ever heard of the 'donut hole'?) but then we have people, fully capable of working and supporting their children, walking around getting free medical care & paying $1 for their prescriptions. what a load of crap!!!! my granny can't work, but most of these slackers that have free medicaid can work, they just don't!
if you keep giving people stuff for free, they have no initiative to work. obamacare is a joke in my opinion. the healthcare system would be ok if there wasn't so much fraud!@
sure, just as soon as someone comes up with just one thing that private industry has controlled that has worked perfectly?
now if we're talking about working, and not working perfectly....well we have a military, we have paved roads, we have 1st responders, we have education, we have a postal system etc. we do not live in privatized bubble....we have services provided on local, state and federal levels.
there are no perfect answers, but when we make something like health care a service that all human beings will need to be contributing members of society (and what happens when they don't have it is that we have less contributing members of society), a for-profit business, we take the risk of pricing out a portion of our society. which is exactly what has happened.
we have the best health care system in the world. it's so good that far to many of our own citizens can't afford to use it. so, from a public health stand point....how useful is that amazing system?
Sure, just as soon as someone comes up with JUST ONE thing that private industry has controlled that has WORKED Perfectly?
Now if we're talking about working, and not working perfectly....well we have a military, we have paved roads, we have 1st responders, we have education, we have a postal system etc. We do not live in privatized bubble....we have services provided on local, state and federal levels.
There are no perfect answers, but when we make something like health care a service that all human beings will need to be contributing members of society (and what happens when they don't have it is that we have LESS contributing members of society), a for-profit business, we take the risk of pricing out a portion of our society. Which is exactly what has happened.
We have the best health care system in the world. It's so good that far to many of our own citizens can't afford to use it. So, from a public health stand point....how useful is that amazing system?
Medicare which is government funded is a mess, have you ever tried to deal with medicaid, often when we get a report, it takes myself with a Msn, my Boss who has a jd and the vp with a phd to interpret and then we bête paid pennies.
Medicare which is government funded is a mess, have you ever tried to deal with medicaid, often when we get a report, it takes myself with a Msn, my Boss who has a jd and the vp with a phd to interpret and then we bête paid pennies.
Look at the bill itself no one can figure it out.
So, we shouldn't try anymore? We should just pick up our toys and go home?
Medicare isn't as efficient as it needs to be so there's no way the government can be involved in a working health care system?
Are Medicare or what we have now really the only possible answers? Are we that limited?
I've never said that Medicare was an efficient model, but I know that our current for-profit health care model prices many, many people out of being able to receive basic health care.
Sure, just as soon as someone comes up with JUST ONE thing that private industry has controlled that has WORKED Perfectly?
Now if we're talking about working, and not working perfectly....well we have a military, we have paved roads, we have 1st responders, we have education, we have a postal system etc. We do not live in privatized bubble....we have services provided on local, state and federal levels.
There are no perfect answers, but when we make something like health care a service that all human beings will need to be contributing members of society (and what happens when they don't have it is that we have LESS contributing members of society), a for-profit business, we take the risk of pricing out a portion of our society. Which is exactly what has happened.
We have the best health care system in the world. It's so good that far to many of our own citizens can't afford to use it. So, from a public health stand point....how useful is that amazing system?
I will give you the military and roads, the gov. is not bad at them. But that is what their job is. The gov pumped billions into education with very little improvement, and the post office is going bankrupt. But if you want perfection in everything, you will have to wait for the next life as it doesn't exist in this one. But what you can get is something that works. And works efficiently. A lot of the problems today are caused by too much regulation. It makes things more expensive and slower.
Health care is an example of too much regulation, and unnecessary procedures are in vitro fertilization, sex change operations, etc. These are examples of wasteful procedures that most of us don't need, but are paying for so a few others can get it paid for under insurance. Drop these sort of things (among others), fight fraud and get private industry to run health care and you will have fixed a lot of the problem. The cost WILL come down. After that, take care of the people who still can't afford it, rather then rip down a system that works quiet well.
And just an FYI, medicaid/medicare turn down more people then anyone else. But then again, the gov is perfect.
So, we shouldn't try anymore? We should just pick up our toys and go home?
Medicare isn't as efficient as it needs to be so there's no way the government can be involved in a working health care system?
Are Medicare or what we have now really the only possible answers? Are we that limited?
I've never said that Medicare was an efficient model, but I know that our current for-profit health care model prices many, many people out of being able to receive basic health care.
I do believe that the gov needs a part in health care. Some people will never be able to afford it, or are too old and no longer earning enough etc.. They need to pay for it and set the rules for it. But they should not run it. leave that to private industry. Whatever else you say about it, it is more efficient.
People complain about the cost of health care. Where is the cost coming from (other then fraud and inefficiency). There is new technology that has to be paid for, new meds that do more. And the biggest expense, people are living longer. The longer you live, the more that will go wrong with you. Its not always someone being greedy, the best just costs more.
I will give you the military and roads, the gov. is not bad at them. But that is what their job is. The gov pumped billions into education with very little improvement, and the post office is going bankrupt. But if you want perfection in everything, you will have to wait for the next life as it doesn't exist in this one. But what you can get is something that works. And works efficiently. A lot of the problems today are caused by too much regulation. It makes things more expensive and slower.
Health care is an example of too much regulation, and unnecessary procedures are in vitro fertilization, sex change operations, etc. These are examples of wasteful procedures that most of us don't need, but are paying for so a few others can get it paid for under insurance. Drop these sort of things (among others), fight fraud and get private industry to run health care and you will have fixed a lot of the problem. The cost WILL come down. After that, take care of the people who still can't afford it, rather then rip down a system that works quiet well.
And just an FYI, medicaid/medicare turn down more people then anyone else. But then again, the gov is perfect.
Who said the gov is perfect? Of course they turn people down right now....our laws currently dictate that they have very narrow criteria of who can enroll.....that's the point! Giving folks who don't qualify for medicare/medicaid...but need health insurance another option.
I was really clear that I didn't think the systems I mentioned were perfect, I'm waiting to hear about a privatized system that is perfect? As you said....nothing's perfect. The roads and military are things that are the government's jobs because we've decided that those are things that are the government's jobs. There are governments around the world that don't consider, roads, for example as being a government responsibility aside from major throughway's....private builders are responsible for building and maintaining their own roads.
Currently education is not great.....but, everyone has access. Is there A LOT that we need to do to fix the system, of course....but do we have a section of our population with no access to K-12 education? Or course not! Other countries do not have public education, everyone has to pay their own tuition. That's kind of what our current health care model is.
From folks I've spoken with....people who think the current health care system isn't broken tend to be the ones who are well insured.
As a single woman with pre-existing conditions, the reason I could never afford a non-group health insurance policy has nothing to do with invitro fertilization and sex change operations.
When I was a care-giver for an adult foster home (making $8.00/hr) and had health insurance.....with a deductible of $2,500....that wasn't because my colleagues were getting in vitro fertilization or sex change operations. I couldn't afford to see the Doc for asthma flare-ups...never mind elective surgery! I couldn't consider even a bi-annual well-visit.
Yes as we get better jobs, we get better benefits. But we have a lot of jobs in this country that are minimum wage jobs. Our society needs these jobs to be performed (ie caregiver at an adult foster home). How do we expect folks to work in these jobs, if they can't take care of the health care needs of themselves and their family?
The system is broken, the costs won't come down with private industry because their purpose, like the insurance company's, is to make a profit....not provide health care to the community.
I do believe that the gov needs a part in health care. Some people will never be able to afford it, or are too old and no longer earning enough etc.. They need to pay for it and set the rules for it. But they should not run it. leave that to private industry. Whatever else you say about it, it is more efficient.
People complain about the cost of health care. Where is the cost coming from (other then fraud and inefficiency). There is new technology that has to be paid for, new meds that do more. And the biggest expense, people are living longer. The longer you live, the more that will go wrong with you. Its not always someone being greedy, the best just costs more.
The cost is not just coming from inefficiency. The cost is coming from keeping the status quo of the system (institutions have to make a profit).
We're at a stage of innovation now in which technology should be saving us money.....but it's generally not. I'll see if I can find the article....but not so long ago there was a great innovation in x-rays. A small company developed a small portable, digital x-ray machine. It was cheaper, took clearer images and portable. Sounds like they should be selling them like crazy huh?
Nope, they went out of business. Institutions didn't want to move away from the model they had invested money into already. Additionally, they didn't have a code to charge patients for it, as the insurance companies didn't have an established fee code for it. The status quo works for the institutional (they have the equipment, suppliers for renewable needs, employees that know how to run it, maintenance contracts to take care of it, billing codes to charge patients, and agreements for fees made with insurance companies). Why on earth would they change?
Huge systems (ie health care corporations) are not innovators. Huge systems want things to stay stable....the way they are. Even though our current health care system is for-profit....it's not driven by market forces. It's not efficient.
So yes, teaching hospitals (which by-the-way are often not-for-profit) are doing research and finding new techniques to solve high acuity problems.
But, there's no money in preventative care. There's no money in chronic care (look at which physician specialty gets paid the least....primary care). If we depend on a for-profit system to address preventative and chronic care....we better find a way to charge a lot of money for it.
I chose in vitro fertilization and sex change operations as obscene examples, they are not the only ones. But you are paying for them. In a lot of states there is mandated coverage, whether you want it or not. Just because you are 90 years old and going in for a total hip doesn't mean your not paying for it. It pushes up the cost of your premium.
You say that technology should be saving us money, it does. But it is the older tech that's cheaper. 50 years ago they didn't have open heart anything, stenting, PET CT, Nuclear Med, etc. This is bigger, better, faster, more. It is not cheap, and has to be paid for. You tell me which tech you would like to drop. And there is newer stuff being developed all the time.
As for for profit companies, they don't have a very high profit margin like other companies (not saying they are hurting or anything), but they still have to make something. Otherwise why bother. You could say the same thing about nurses. People need our skills to survive, how dare we charge for it and make money off the sick. You see, we need to survive too. We can't supply the service for free, or even very little. If we did, we would have do leave nursing, and that would be the end of nursing as a whole. It is the same for the private insurance industry. They need to make a profit to pay their expenses and make it worthwhile. They also help to keep the cost down through lower waste and fraud. So they are needed, whether we like it or not.
So, we shouldn't try anymore? We should just pick up our toys and go home?
Medicare isn't as efficient as it needs to be so there's no way the government can be involved in a working health care system?
Are Medicare or what we have now really the only possible answers? Are we that limited?
I've never said that Medicare was an efficient model, but I know that our current for-profit health care model prices many, many people out of being able to receive basic health care.
Um...well....yeah. See, most people, let me rephrase that. Most logical people dont add things to their to do list when they havent finished the first couple that were on the list. They could at least fix medicare and some of their other abominations first.....THEN attempt to do something else. Its typical government crap. "Oh hey...well (insert gov run program here) isnt really working out too well now. So instead of fixing it....lets make more laws and move on to something else."
And the reason the current health care system is pricing people out is because every time someone goes into an ER and stays for a week or so and then skips on the bill because of false ID or ....well...no legal ID at all, the loss has to come from somewhere. Just like every time they increase minimum wage your milk goes up 20 cents. Thats the way it works. You have to make your losses back. So what happens? Well it gets pushed on the responsible people who actually pay into the system.
The system would work find if the majority of people actually paid into it. But they dont. There are so many people who dont pay in because they are happy living off the system. That puts the burden on the people that do. Well the responsible peoples' backs are about to break from the weight of all the free loaders.
Im going to stop ranting. I will leave with this. The most important part of any business is being to identify a money pit and having the guts and knowledge to know when to say "time to cut our losses."
Um...well....yeah. See, most people, let me rephrase that. Most logical people dont add things to their to do list when they havent finished the first couple that were on the list. They could at least fix medicare and some of their other abominations first.....THEN attempt to do something else. Its typical government crap. "Oh hey...well (insert gov run program here) isnt really working out too well now. So instead of fixing it....lets make more laws and move on to something else."
So, for folks who don't have access to anything more than the emergency room....just tell them, "hang on, we're getting to you."?
And the reason the current health care system is pricing people out is because every time someone goes into an ER and stays for a week or so and then skips on the bill because of false ID or ....well...no legal ID at all, the loss has to come from somewhere. Just like every time they increase minimum wage your milk goes up 20 cents. Thats the way it works. You have to make your losses back. So what happens? Well it gets pushed on the responsible people who actually pay into the system.
EXACTLY!! The reason they're going to the ER is that they don't have any other access to healthcare!
We can't afford to keep providing ER only healthcare to people. It will be more cost effective to find a way to get them in to an actual practitioner's office.
The system would work find if the majority of people actually paid into it. But they dont. There are so many people who dont pay in because they are happy living off the system. That puts the burden on the people that do. Well the responsible peoples' backs are about to break from the weight of all the free loaders.
Im going to stop ranting. I will leave with this. The most important part of any business is being to identify a money pit and having the guts and knowledge to know when to say "time to cut our losses."
The folks "happily living off the system" have health care via Medicaid. We're already paying for them. That's another problem to address entirely.
It's the working poor and lower middle class that doesn't have access to health care since they are either uninsured or under-insured). They're trying to pay into the system....but just can't afford it. So, they go to the ER instead and get incredibly expensive, lousy primary care. (not saying that ED's provide lousy care....just that they provide lousy primary care)
NC29mom, ASN, LPN, RN
320 Posts
can somebody please tell me just one thing the government has controlled that worked?????? cause i can't think of one! government controlling healthcare is a horrible idea. it already annoys me that my 88 yr old granny with parkinson's dz can't afford her medication (yep, medicare is a joke! ever heard of the 'donut hole'?) but then we have people, fully capable of working and supporting their children, walking around getting free medical care & paying $1 for their prescriptions. what a load of crap!!!! my granny can't work, but most of these slackers that have free medicaid can work, they just don't!
if you keep giving people stuff for free, they have no initiative to work. obamacare is a joke in my opinion. the healthcare system would be ok if there wasn't so much fraud!@