Nurses being forced to go back to school

Laurie52 · Sep 8, 2014

Entry level into practice was discussed in my senior nursing class in 1974. The handwriting has been on the wall for a very long time. I don't understand why a nurse is either well educated or experienced. They can be both.

KentuckyWildcat · Sep 8, 2014

"I don't understand why a nurse is either well educated or experienced. They can be both."

Well said...

allnurses Guide · Sep 8, 2014

So let me ask a question.....Should I be forced to go back and get my BSN? I have served the same hospital for eighteen years. Now, I'm no longer fit to do my job? At a time when retirement is just around the corner; I'm being forced to go into debt to get by BSN? I think that anyone who was involved in this decision should be paying for my education. Lets see how quickly they change their position! I can honestly say that I have never met an individual that was somehow made a better nurse because of this. So many nurses go into this field for the wrong reasons. I made a good decision and I'm an exceptional nurse. I don't need a BSN or MSN to prove that. I'm sure if you asked our patients what was more important to them......the more educated nurse or the nurse who truly cares about them, the decision would be simple. Shame on all of you who are forcing veteran nurses to do this. Any nurse over the age of 50 should not have this forced upon them.

No, you shouldn't be forced to go back to school when retirement is right around the corner and be expected to foot the bill yourself. Nobody has the right to tell you that some dollar number of tuition or amount of debt you go into for this isn't a big deal.

You didn't say they actually said you'd be fired if you don't earn your BSN within a certain amount of time, but I hope not. What a slap in the face it is when a facility does that to it's most senior employees.

What is going on now is that market forces have ripped the mask off the motives of a large percentage of "powers that be" and revealed the greed underneath, rather than an attitude of goodwill. I really feel for you. I know that some people want to make the argument about educated vs not educated. It's about years of service being kicked to the curb and devoted nurses being treated like yesterday's trash.

drt010 · Sep 8, 2014

But why should those of us who have spent the money, time, and effort (even gone into debt) have to have such a wide competitive field (people that have only spent 2 years/less in school)? It does suck period that nowadays every job requires a degree, a bachelors really.. and to advance you better have that Masters. It is a painful situation... but it is real. I think those who have played the game, spent the money, and felt the pain should definitely have a better chance at getting a job.. and keeping it... Why? Because they put in the work and planned ahead. Plus, if you are an RN it is so much easier for you all to get your BSN because it is much faster.

tyvin, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

How many threads to we need on this topic, really??? Can't this thread be locked, or at least added to the dozen or so others that are currently on this site that talk about the same thing?

I'm not understanding. Lately people have made threads to gripe about repetitive threads but it's really simple...don't click on them. Let the poster have their say and let it go. Why must what I presume are educated people continue to beef about it.

Yes, yes, they should research, etc... Maybe they did and want their own, maybe they didn't and went ahead anyway, Who cares! Are you who lately have ******* and heaved about repetitive threads have money invested on pixels generated from the internet site? We were going along having a nice talk; esme even put up the other threads for people to see, than as it has been so lately....negative comments appear.

I think it's a shame that people who belong to this site should be afraid to post a question in fear of being eviscerated by the old timers. So sad...

I say if you don't like it, don't click on it...simple no.

HazelLPN, LPN · Sep 8, 2014

But why should those of us who have spent the money, time, and effort (even gone into debt) have to have such a wide competitive field (people that have only spent 2 years/less in school)? It does suck period that nowadays every job requires a degree, a bachelors really.. and to advance you better have that Masters. It is a painful situation... but it is real. I think those who have played the game, spent the money, and felt the pain should definitely have a better chance at getting a job.. and keeping it... Why? Because they put in the work and planned ahead. Plus, if you are an RN it is so much easier for you all to get your BSN because it is much faster.

When one is close to retirement and has a lifetime of experience, a BSN will not make them a better nurse.

I see you are very proud of "putting the time in" and everything else you say to earn your BSN. Let me tell you something about the old diploma schools. You might not have been about to put the time in there, because you surrendered your life to nursing for 2-3 years. You also worked as a student nurse after your classes and clinicals were over and learned on the job and were constantly asked to explain your thinking to your supervisors...critical thinking long before it became a buzz word. You lived at a dorm at the hospital, ate your meals there and when you slept you dreamt about nursing. The training was excellent and the quality of students in those days were much higher, as women had fewer career options at that time. As far as putting the time in, we DID, more than you may ever know.

Kids grow up, get married, have families, have family responsibilities....its not so easy to go back to school. When you do go back (which I did) you find that it doesn't make you a better nurse and that there is a big difference between academic nursing and reality.

I think young people should try to get that BSN, but we need to respect the experience of veteran nurses who came into nursing with less formal types of education and let them finish their careers with dignity. Throw out a veteran diploma RN or LPN to be replaced by some kid with a BSN? Absolutely foolish, but some places do that. I for one think it's despicable.

fakebee · Sep 8, 2014

It's not about making anyone a better nurse, it's about the fact that it's an employers market. With job seekers outstripping jobs available employers can ask whatever qualifications they wish. As a BSN prepared nurse with almost 20 years experience I know that I might wake up in the morning with an email from my boss saying the hospital is requiring a masters for all bedside nurses. Why? Because they can. And since I have another 10-15 years left to work, I will be doing their bidding or work elsewhere if possible. The old cliche that the golden rule is now he who has the gold makes the rules has never been truer than now. I can only take comfort in knowing karma is a b.... And will eventually bite some people in the butt. Wishing you and all of us the best, we're going to need it.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

How many threads to we need on this topic, really??? Can't this thread be locked, or at least added to the dozen or so others that are currently on this site that talk about the same thing?

Everyone has the right and is allowed to post what THEY are feeling and how it is affecting THEM. EVERYONE deserves a chance to be heard.

I guess the same can be said of those who gravitate towards threads that irritate them and are repetitive as well in their displeasure.

EVERYONE has a right of their opinion and everyone has the right to say so as long as it is polite.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

But why should those of us who have spent the money, time, and effort (even gone into debt) have to have such a wide competitive field (people that have only spent 2 years/less in school)? It does suck period that nowadays every job requires a degree, a bachelors really.. and to advance you better have that Masters. It is a painful situation... but it is real. I think those who have played the game, spent the money, and felt the pain should definitely have a better chance at getting a job.. and keeping it... Why? Because they put in the work and planned ahead. Plus, if you are an RN it is so much easier for you all to get your BSN because it is much faster.

Well it isn't about the BSN itself. It's about suddenly after 20+ years you are suddenly not competent nor educated enough to do the very same job you have been doing for 20+ years. Now that you are close to retirement or have children in college you have to increase your debt at a time in your life when you don't want $10,000.00 of new debt...to add NOTHING to your ability to do your job and is as worthless as the paper it is written on all to get paid the same pay and do the same job?

It's insulting.

Why should I after spending 35 yeaars atthe bedside with extensive experience and knowledege learn how to write a APA paper?

Exactly WHAT does that add do my patient care and competence?

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

Let me clarify......What I was trying to say is that I would love to hear what class it was that was taken that made you a better beside nurse. There is so much talk about increasing our knowledge base and how this is preferable to the nurse that has years of experience. With all due respect, after 18 years of nursing experience, much of which was cardiac critical care and cath lab, it would still take years of bedside experience before these "better educated nurses" could even touch our knowledge base. If you prefer the nurse that is more knowledgable......tell me about it when your in that bed crashing. If someone on this site can share with me the way one of these classes helped save a life, I would love to hear about it. The classes we are forced to take have nothing to do with clinical nursing. This is not to suggest that I will waste valuable time and energy being angry about the above. I won't! I just feel we are being brainwashed. This is not the first time this has happened. Forcing nurses to go back to school is partly a cyclic thing. I just feel when a nurse gets to a certain age that if the hospital isn't willing to pay for it they shouldn't be insisting on it.

It is unfortunate you and many others are being put in this position. Many of those who already have their BSN have no sympathy because of the mentality if they did it so should you. The ANA would support nurses better if they stood up for no lift environment and safe staffing ratios, not magnet status and 80% BSN by 2020! Where were they when we were forced to use regular needles when safe needles were available. It took ten years and an Act of Congress to get hospitals to provide safe needles!

At the very least the ANA should be advocating for hospitals to fully reimburse RN's being forced to get their BSN! Also their should be a significant difference in pay for BSN RN's if this is so all important! Where I work there is absolutely no difference in pay! The only place I know that actually pays for a BSN in both tuition reimbursement and pay is the VA!

As far as it being cyclic in the past is was telling LPN's they had to get an RN or they would be let go. They were not RN's. It is not the same thing as telling an RN they are not good enough when they are already RN's and doing the same thing they would be with a BSN.

But that said, there is really not much you can do about it unless you are able to find another job that is satisfied with your ADN. Where I work they still hire ADN's, but other hospital systems either require BSN or some make getting a BSN a condition of your continued employment in the job offer. Your best bet is finding a union job because at least you will have some say in your working conditions and if BSN is mandated a better chance of getting true tuition reimbursement.

I would look at all your options and choose the cheapest probably online program you can find. WGU appears to be one of the cheapest, you pay a flat fee I guess it's around $6,000 year and some can get their BSN in 6 months to a year. It depends how much time and energy you devote to getting all the necessary classes done.

I don't know about your public university, but where I live it is more expensive and lots of hoops to go thru like calculus and foreign language. I actually did take a couple languages in the past, but who knows they may not count them as so much time has passed. I see they are now offering a true online option and charging much less, comparable to WGU and seem to be copying WGU. Maybe they are doing the same thing where you live. Personally I wouldn't want to go thru a clinical for a BSN, I think the only program without a clinical is University of Phoenix, but I'm sure they cost a fortune and don't even advertise their tuition rates, plus I hate the thought of supporting a for profit university!

Whatever you decide to do fill out the FAFSA and use govt student loans if possible as private student loans have higher interest rates and no flexibility in repayment. At least govt loans have income based repayment if something happened and you lost your job or were too sick to work. There is a modest student loan interest rate credit, but if you have a house you would probably be better off considering a home equity loan or line of credit as that interest is probably less than what the govt loans would be and is fully deductible. Plus there is a lifetime learning credit for tax purposes. Consider all your options before making your decision.

I personally am saving my money for retirement and maxing out my Roth IRA as it can be an emergency savings, esp if you don't have a lot of home equity. I'm hoping to make it to retirement without going back to school, but only time will tell if it works out.

Personally there are so many things about nursing that **** me off, that the thought of spending more money for a BSN only adds to the aggravation. I'm sick of this we are professionals, really then why do we have mandatory overtime, wiping buts and breaking our backs, scripting, vaccine mandations and on and on, down to micromanagement re timeclock and computer charting! Nursing is so overrated it isn't funny! If they wanted educated professionals then they would let the CNA's be the CNA's and not expect the nurses to be the same!

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

I'm not understanding. Lately people have made threads to gripe about repetitive threads but it's really simple...don't click on them. Let the poster have their say and let it go. Why must what I presume are educated people continue to beef about it.
Yes, yes, they should research, etc... Maybe they did and want their own, maybe they didn't and went ahead anyway, Who cares! Are you who lately have ******* and heaved about repetitive threads have money invested on pixels generated from the internet site? We were going along having a nice talk; esme even put up the other threads for people to see, than as it has been so lately....negative comments appear.
I think it's a shame that people who belong to this site should be afraid to post a question in fear of being eviscerated by the old timers. So sad...
I say if you don't like it, don't click on it...simple no.

I agree let people start new posts rather than rehash the old posts. Also it helps the rest of stay abreast at what is happening around the country. It would be nice if the posters mentioned what city or at least what state the mandation is coming from, but I understand some prefer not to mention to stay anonymous.

It feels like BSN mandation is making the rounds like hourly rounding, bedside shift report and vaccine mandation. I think magnet status may have started it, but that it is happening in more hospitals than just magnet. I wish the nurses would mention if their hospital system is magnet status or not and if this is what is fueling this latest trend. Although I think the current glut of RN's and the fact that they can hire a new BSN for less than an experienced nurse is truly what is behind this! It's all about money! A clever way to get rid of their older, experienced more expensive nurses and replace them with newbies for less money!

wooh, BSN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

I'm sure if you asked our patients what was more important to them......the more educated nurse or the nurse who truly cares about them, the decision would be simple.

I'm sure if you asked our patients what was more important to them, they'd only care about which one brought them their drugs the fastest.