Nurses: Failure rate of courses perplexing - Jackson Clarion Ledger

JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 16, 2007

I am going to say that it does not surprise me that many students fail out of nursing courses. I am currently taking pre-reqs in a community college. The one course that I'm taking now is Chemistry. The course is extremely simple and is barely above the level of high school chemistry, yet something like 75% of the class is failing. I HOPE that these students do not go on to nursing school, but if they do make it in it will not surprise me in the least that they fail. Their failure might be due to a combination of factors--poor academic background, poor study skills, need for extra tutoring, etc. However, dumbing down the nursing program to graduate more warm bodies is not the solution.

DTC · Apr 17, 2007

I graduated from Hinds Community College-Rankin Campus in 2006 as an LPN. Of the 51 students who enrolled, we graduated 21. To the best of my knowledge, everyone but 4 passed boards and 1 passed on her second attempt. I think the entrance exam should be more stringent and the course studies more intense. I thought the training was fairly easy and have two classes left to complete before applying to bridge over to RN.

The article referenced above applies to the Associate degree program, not the LPN program. I"ve noticed that the Clarion-Ledger NEVER prints anything about the LPNs in the state,,only the RNs. While I dont know any facts or firgures about the pass rate for the LPN program,,it irritates me to no end that LPNs are ignored anytime there is an article,,good or bad. I work in the state's best retirement community and the caliber of nurses, both RN and LPN, as well as the CNAs, are all top notch. Now I'm all fired up,,think tomorrow I'm going to write a letter to the editor,,grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

MSADN, ADN · Apr 17, 2007

The attrition rate in nursing school is high. Losing 50% of the entering freshman class over a two year process may not be that unusual. What makes the Hinds story so different is that over 50% of a class starting the LAST semester failed the unit exam. These are students who have worked and studied hard to get through 3 semesters of nursing school, only to be told less than one month from graduation, " Uh, sorry, but you don't graduate this time. Come back next semester."

L&D RN& luvn it · Apr 21, 2007

I am a graduate of Hinds CC , 2002. The test these students are taking is the same test that we had to take and pass. The difference is we went in with the mindset that we had to study, and not expect to be hand fed.

Students have to take responsibility for themselves.

danh3190 · Apr 21, 2007

I thought this line was interesting:

"Alcorn State University reported only 21 of 91 nursing students passed a comprehensive exam, which will jeopardize their graduation in May. That runs counter to ASU graduates' passing rate of nearly 100 percent on national nursing licensure exams the past 10 years."

Maybe the reason they have almost 100% pass on NCLEX is that only the smartest or the best test takers manage to graduate and take the NCLEX.

DTC · Apr 22, 2007

We started out with 3 instructors,,,1 left after teh first year,,another one left after her second year. I think if teh pay scale was higher, they might could attract more qualified instructors. Honestly, I didnt learn a thing in class that wasnt in the book. My thoughts are that too many students believe tehy can just sit in class and take notes and pass. I was told early on that if I read the books,,,I would pass written tests. I read, I passed. Today in the paper,,another article about Alcorn State. Still nothing about the LPNs. With the aging population growing by leaps and bounds, it would seem that more attention would be paid to the LPN programs, since we are the ones who mainly work LTC/ALF. When I applied for the RN program, the waiting list was so long I decided to go LPN since the waiting list was much shorter. Seems to me that what we have is not so much a nursing shortage, but a nursing INSTRUCTOR shortage!

hoopskirthippie · Apr 26, 2007

Can anyone who took the exit exam at Alcorn School of Nursing this semester tell me their impressions of what went wrong? Is it that they don't teach what's on the exam? Instructors don't teach well? Turnover? Just asking -- I'm scheduled to start at Alcorn SON this fall.

MS Kathy · Apr 29, 2007

Honestly ,I don't know.

I took it. My BSN class is really amazingly smart. Most of them will pass NCLEX on the first try and will make excellent nurses. I do thing the system has failed them. I personally didn't know about an exit exam before going there. It would not have mattered and I didn't know to ask about one so I don't know if it was commonly known. On the first day of class when we had to sign a statement about taking the exit exam and what grade we had to make -it was presented as a big deal but not a big deal b/c they were going to teach us all that we needed to know. Fast forward to the end of last year there were technical problems during the exam but I think everyone passed except for 1 (but I don't know for sure).

I wish I had answers-my heart is broken for my classmates who didn't pass. More people are taking it on Monday if y'all have any prayers Monday morning.

What I do know

We have 2 chances to take the HESI and must make at least 900 to pass ( I don't know the top score you could make-some people say 1300 & some say 1500.) This is associated with one class-Synthesis. We take 4 exams (nclex prep type questions) that make up our grade and the HESI is our "final" but the grade does not compute as part of the overall grade- just pass or fail. Those that failed the 1st time got remediation from faculty.We did have the Hurst review the week before HESI.

We had the HESI book we've used in conjunction with class the last 2 semesters. We had access to online HESI case studies a few weeks before the test (I think everyone except me who passed the first time did work though these at least a little bit).

From what I've heard UMC takes the HESI and their passing grade is 850 and have multiple times to take it. They get to walk at graduation but don't receive a diploma until they pass. They get HESI provided remediation that concentrates on the areas they are low in.(I've only heard from students I don't know officially.) I don't know if my school did this or if it is helpful.)

I don't know about anywhere else. I have heard Hinds get 6 chances to take it????

I wish I had more answers.

Kathy

eldragon · May 16, 2007

I'm currently in nursing school in Mississippi, however, not that program. We have lost 8 out of 25 of our students so far, and it's only after the second block.

It's due to many things: a strict absence policy, especially regarding clinicals, short time period to go over alot of information and only a few tests per class, which means - if you fail one exam, you might never get your average up, and inexperienced teachers.

We're having a problem, and it's very spooky to watch 5 people fail at the same time. There doesn't seem to be any breaks for these students, whether they have a death in the family, an child with a serious illness, or are trying to work a job to pay their way through school. No breaks. You fail by 1 point, you're history. What makes me mad is the fact that our projects count for up to 25% of our grades, and are largely graded on a subjective basis. The teachers could actually give you a one point break and allow you pass, but they won't.

It's very disapointing to see some people who would make wonderful, caring and intelligent nurses, kicked out because of one point.

RNfinally · Jul 9, 2007

I have an associates degree in nursing. I took my program in Minnesota, and it was the same as you are describing you had to be in class and in clinicals , no questions asked. We had one instructor who if a classmate had issues as you described her reply was "you can always drop out" They had high expectations and we lost about 25 people from start to finish. It was very difficult at times I had 2 children in elementary school at the time, but it was worth it they have a 95 % passing rate on the NClex exam. Some of the students that failed out or quit should have they had no business being there and others didn't have the drive to get through and with 1 in 7 nurses quiting the profession I believe every year due to stress, we need people who can stick it out and have the drive and love of their chosen profession.

In regard to teachers, there def. needs to be better pay and benefits of qualified instructors. I don't want to have some yo yo teaching or someone who isn't totally present teaching future nurses, a nurse can make or break your experience in the hospital as well as save your life or kill you.

eldragon · Jul 9, 2007

In May I wrote on this thread that we had lost 8 out of 25 students, well, by July 1st we had lost a total of 13. I wish it was because the teachers are so darned good and knowledgable that we just can't keep up, but it's just the opposite.

We have a teacher who is happily flunking everyone she can, and does nothing in class to teach us anything. That's right : nothing. No lectures anymore. Our entire pharmacology class is just her saying "the test next week is on 6 chapters - everything you need to know about IV's and injections and dosage calculations. Know it." No help whatsoever.

Try memorizing textbooks without instruction or help on anything. If you ask her a question, she gives you the wrong answer, or a smart-ass one. Nobody dares ask anymore. The stress of the program is unreal.

2 people this block dropped the program, after 6 months of hard work, because of this one woman. (they were both presidents list the first semester - 4.0 grades.) It's just too stressful. Me? I spend my entire life studying, I do little else. My house is a mess, my bills are unpaid - and I've gained weight because I stopped working out. All I do is sit with my books, trying to teach myself this stuff so that I can pass her tests. When I get the exam, I am usually faced with insane questions that she has made up, many of which make no sense.

Our last test - last week - had 75 questions - 17 were choose all that apply - with 5 answers to choose from. We can only miss 15 questions on the entire test to stay above the pass line - and she puts those questions on there? And we no lecture on the content. I studied for days for that test, and am pretty sure I failed it. We haven't gotten our grades back, but the whole class is confident they failed it.

Is it because we're dumb? I doubt it. I have a 25 ACT score, and the reading portion is 33. (Taken last fall.) I easily make A's in the other classes I'm taken, the ones with a real teacher, but this lady is impossible.

No matter how much I study, she'll fail me if she wants to. There's no checks and balances in the program. She took 20 points off of a girls careplan grade last week, because she didn't draw a line through a portion of the careplan that didn't apply. 20 points off - which was the max the student could get for the whole page.

This is my life right now, and my husband and childrens life. This teacher and program have made it into a hell. I seriously regret getting into this program.

Oh sure, those of us who make it are the ones with staying power. But how will our morale be? One day last week, three different students were crying, and one was vomiting from the stress.

How healthy is that? And this is an LPN class!