In the hospitals where I have done clinicals thus far, I feel like some of the nurses hate the nursing students and others are delighted to see the students. I was wondering what the general concensus is about helping nursing students out by having them tag along. Do you get annoyed or do you find that they are helpful? Sometimes, I feel like everyone hates the students because it is extra work for them.
Also, what is the point of getting a BSN instead of a ADN if you do not plan to move up from being a floor nurse?
Thanks for taking the time to read this and responding. It is very appreciated.
We have 3 local BSN programs in this area, and soon as i read this, it reminded me of one of them. I remember quite a few saying things like "Um, eyeew, like, i'm not touching a bedpan, that's like so gross." Course it didn't help when their instructor is telling them "When you're a nurse, you don't have to do these things, you'll have CNAs."
What's so interesting is that where I worked as an educator, our primary feeder schools were technical colleges and ADN programs. In fact, 80% of our nurse staff was ADN prepared.
What was annoying to ME was that several ADN students thought that emptying bedpans was below them because they were more focused on "advanced" nursing skills, like IVs and trachs and such. They also didn't find value in non-clinical skills, like patient education and counseling. They didn't consider it nursing!
But luckily, this wasn't the majority of our students, only a handful.
OK, I like teaching nursing students who are eager to learn and spend time w/their pts. I was, however, turned off by one student who called in the night before her clinical and wanted me to give her the data on her pt over the phone. Excuse me, when I was in nursing school, I had to leave my very young children in the care of others to go to the facility and get the data myself. Why should I be expected to find time in my busy day (I was working the floor, for heaven's sake), to do your homework for you. Sorry, I refused and even went so far as to ask her, "Why would I do that?". I almost want to ask the subscribers to this forum if I was wrong, but I know I wasn't. Nevertheless, this student told many of my co-workers(many of whom were not nurses and had no clue) what I did as if I was being a "mean nurse". I don't do my KID'S HOMEWORK for THEM, why would I do it for you? I earned my grades a long time ago, now it's time for you to earn yours. There, I said it and now it is out of my system.!!!
I'm not so sure you were doing her homework for her; it sounds like she just wanted the bare facts, like vitals, etc ~ the homework is her interpretation of, or careplanning around, that data. Her copying down the data whether she's looking at it or getting it over the phone isn't requiring anything other than time and the ability to read and write.
Who knows why she asked? Perhaps she had a 45-60 minute commute to the hospital just to copy down statistics. Perhaps she couldn't arrive at the hospital at o-dark-hundred to get the data before clinical because of childcare issues. Perhaps she had a dying father.
Or perhaps she was lazy. At any rate, she was creative and assertive. Good qualities in a nurse-to-be imo.
I couldn't imagine calling a nurse to get her to relay the info to me. Nurses are busy with patient care. I wouldn't call that creative or assertive, I'd call it rude and inconsiderate. I had to commute to one of my rotations, so I just came in early in the morning to do my prep work.
I couldn't imagine calling a nurse to get her to relay the info to me. Nurses are busy with patient care. I wouldn't call that creative or assertive, I'd call it rude and inconsiderate.
Nah, it was worth a shot on the part of the student. Depending on how desperate my situation was, I might have attempted the same thing.
Part of what irks me about education, especially in the medical field, is the whole "pay yer dues" mentality (not saying you have that). What's more important ~ that the student drive to, walk to, or wake up early for the needed information, or gets the needed information, interprets it correctly and provides excellent patient care?
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I am sorry, but I have to agree with fergus totally here.
I don't think it was at all appropriate for the student to call, and with HIPAA as a consideration, only a fool of a nurse would give such information over the phone. I know I sure would not. And I might have a talk w/the instructor in light of it, depending on the student's performance and behavior the next day. It could be a slip or mistep, but if I saw further problems, I would think it would warrant a chat w/student's instructor.
Conveying medical information over the phone with people you don't know is not "smart" nor "creative", either. HOW does anyone KNOW this person is legit? Did no one among the student's pofessors/instructors discuss HIPAA with this student?
No I don't think it was a good idea. Lazy and ill-advised, is what I would call it. I would never have dreamt of calling and bothering staff nurses for information I could/should seek for myself. That is part of the learning process in school, right----- how to gather data, assess and apply it, or am I wrong? Further, that is what I thought pre-clinical was for, to learn HOW to gather your OWN data (not rely on another nurse)----and use it. That is part of learning how to be a nurse.
Also, pre-clinical allowed us to visit the patients we were responsible for the next day, further gathing useful data. How is that gonna happen if a student wants the already busy staff nurse to do the legwork for her/him? I would not be impressed in the least.....
I hope the processes of learning in nursing school have not changed that much.
. That is part of the learning process in school, right----- how to gather data, assess and apply it, or am I wrong? Further, that is what I thought pre-clinical was for, to learn HOW to gather your OWN data (not rely on another nurse)----and use it. That is part of learning how to be a nurse.
Physically going to the unit and copying down a list of medications is not a learning process.
Looking up the medications and figuring out how they interact with one another or the patient's condition IS.
HIPAA considerations yes should be accounted for, naturally.
I am not saying I would advocate my students to do this; I am saying that I don't necessarily find this as doing the student's homework for her. The homework is the actual work and thinking, not copying down words.
That is part of the learning process in school, right----- how to gather data, assess and apply it, or am I wrong? Further, that is what I thought pre-clinical was for, to learn HOW to gather your OWN data (not rely on another nurse)----and use it. That is part of learning how to be a nurse.
I'm not going to defend the student who called. We had to go in. Maybe he/she did go in and just wanted an update, but it did take balls to do that and I wouldn't have given him/her a bit of information over the phone.
However, in the real world do we not rely on each other as part of the gathering of data. We aren't completely on our own. I personally rely on shift change report, report from the charge nurse, report from case managers/discharge planners, doctors, all sorts of people to give me information.
Part of learning to be a nurse is collaboration with peers. If we as staff nurses shoot them down, that's not good either is it?
We don't normally get nursing students on our floor because it's Transplantation. But one of the daytime teamleaders is an instructor for a private university in town and she brings her students to our floor for a shift during the day.
I wouldn't mind a student. I would love to help teach someone coming into the field.
I'm not going to defend the student who called. We had to go in. Maybe he/she did go in and just wanted an update, but it did take balls to do that and I wouldn't have given him/her a bit of information over the phone.
However, in the real world do we not rely on each other as part of the gathering of data. We aren't completely on our own. I personally rely on shift change report, report from the charge nurse, report from case managers/discharge planners, doctors, all sorts of people to give me information.
Part of learning to be a nurse is collaboration with peers. If we as staff nurses shoot them down, that's not good either is it?
Oh yeah, I totally agree. All the information that you're going to get on your patient is going to come from the nurse you're relieving, the charts, the patient, and sometimes if you're lucky, a PA or MD will fill you in on some things. Sometimes when another nurse hears me talking about my patient to my teamleader, he/she will add something because he/she took care of them days or weeks prior. I don't go to my other co-workers asking about my patient....usually everything can be found by digging into the chart or asking the patient.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Yes we do rely on each other to convey information, but most of us do not call our colleagues from other tasks if we can find it ourselves. And calling a nurse for the information on the phone as a student is wrong, really. I would wager most of what that person called for were facts he/she could find on their own, if they went in. And HIPAA is still a consideration, no matter how we feel about the students' motives. I still really think it was very presumptuous on the part of the student to do this.
Honestly, I love to teach and help students, but I really resent when they ask us to do their work for them. And some can be quite nervey in this area. I do usually know when they are trying this, also. Now, I will be very kind and point them in the right direction to find what they need and help them break it down to understand it, if possible. And no question is stupid---I am so happy to "show the way" for our future nurses.
But I am not going to bend over backward for people too lazy to do some legwork FIRST. I don't have any use for lazy nursing students or nurses.
i think i have a pretty good nursing class, there is only 30 of us , 10 in each hospital and we are all older, mature, and for the most part pretty smart. I always feel nurses out before I try and shadow/learn from them.
Specializes in home & public health, med-surg, hospice.
Last year, one of our assignments was to call our assigned clinical preceptor prior to performing clinicals on the floor & ask what the top 5 medical dx. were for the floor & also what were the 10 (I think - might've only been 5) meds. rx. Then we had to complete a small report of each of these.
I could tell when I called my preceptor it was a busy time, so I offered to call back and fortunately I knew this nurse from previously working with her as a fellow so it was all fine. But I can certainly see how, even in this instance, when you're busy taking care of patients, you're busy! Let alone if you were callin' requesting a detailed H&P w/tx. plan, etc.
The info. (dx. & meds) was helpful knowledge for the students preparing for clinical rotation. However, a better alternative might have been for us to meet with the unit managers of each assigned clinical unit and gotten this info. from her/him @ a convenient time for the manager. I could see how getting phone calls with no prior heads-up from the instructors that they were coming (the questions) could set-up the beginnings of a break down in communication between both the student & preceptor.
Q.
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What's so interesting is that where I worked as an educator, our primary feeder schools were technical colleges and ADN programs. In fact, 80% of our nurse staff was ADN prepared.
What was annoying to ME was that several ADN students thought that emptying bedpans was below them because they were more focused on "advanced" nursing skills, like IVs and trachs and such. They also didn't find value in non-clinical skills, like patient education and counseling. They didn't consider it nursing!
But luckily, this wasn't the majority of our students, only a handful.