I was just reading the discussion about why nurses 'allow' poor staffing ratios, and a post by Angie took my breath away with the possibilities.
There is only one real reason that nurses don't have appropriate staffing.
It's because we do not own the hospitals.
We are just employees, and nowhere in the business world do employees have any say over employment. Nowhere.
So the answer is, when nurses own the hospitals, then they will have the right to have a say in staffing.
Of course on that day, Hell will simultaneously freeze over and flying pigs will be seen cavorting in the clouds.
Now THERE'S an idea that fires the imagination! A nurse-owned hospital! I'm not so sure it wouldn't work because of the nursing expense. I hear about obscene hospital profits on this board all the time. I really wonder if such a thing could work!
I know there are probably many reasons it couldn't work, but that was true for a lot of impossible things (like the millions of transistors on a computer chip for instance, or even the electric light bulb for that matter).
Just for the sake of excitement though, let's just brainstorm this a little. Post your reasons why a say... non-profit or even for-profit hospital run by nurses couldn't succeed wildly! Remember, the administrators would be compensated in a non-profit hospital. I know that there would be no stock-holder cash pools in a non-profit hospital, but consider this: When I taught high school math, I didn't know a single teacher who would have taken a raise over a smaller teacher-to-student ratio. I would have given up a decent chunk of change for the opportunity to actually teach.
Also, when the real pros take over things, money and creativity can be found and saved in the most startlingly creative ways (does anyone remember the movie 9 to 5?)
It's probably just a dream, but I see the energy and power and intelligence in this forum and I dream that anything is possible. I mean, look, everyone who dedicates themselves to this demanding profession deserves great compensation, but what if you could have true job-satisfaction and a decent quality of life and you had to give up some (not all) of the bucks to do it? No contest? And I still don't really understand why anyone would have to give up bucks anyway. They're available in the profits we all hear about.
Finally, any real competition for patients would be no biggie since a nurse-run facility would have patients banging down the door to get in (even the well-off folks).
OK so you can't afford to buy or build a hospital so how about getting the right admin staff instead. Nurses start at the ground and work their way up,nurses in all the admin positions that have to do with direct patient care,realistic staff to patient ratios,decent budgeting and realistic work loads.
Over here they made a big mistake when they thought that anyone with management skills could run a hospital.I don't see why it couldn't be possible.After all the old fashioned Matrons used to run hospitals very successfully ,usually with a rod of iron!
Several of the VP's at my hosp are nurses. Hasn't seemed to help.
yes, it does sound good in theory, but the bottom line is that even if nurses owned the hospital, the nurse at the top of the food chain would want to do one thing:make money. all of our management level people are former nurses who haven't worked the floor in years and have no clue how hard it is to manage too many patients. they don't care either, all they want to do is see that bonus check at the end of the year. our don at least listens when we tell her that staffing sucsks, but the ceo and the cco want to make money so they don't care about anything but putting heads in our beds, and, yes, they are both nurses. so, sorry if this sounds bubble bursting, but i just know how our facility is run.
pam
nothing wrong with getting paid a fair salary. but i'd have a hard time imagining any board of directors made up of a majority of nurses would allow this:
tenet healthcare ceo trevor fetter grabbed $9.5 million in the 2006 executive pay sweepstakes, according to the hospital chain's [color=#0253b7]proxy, which was filed this morning. not bad for a guy running a company whose stock underperformed industry peers by 16% in the past year and 107% in the past three years, according to [color=#0253b7]data calpers crunched in late february.
Specializes in ICU, oncology, home health, hospice.
nurse run hospitals-i think they are a great idea! i know nurses who have started their own hospices, home health agencies, etc; there is no reason why it would not work. i also know several nurses who have degrees in nursing as well as business. those would be the people to manage the business end. of course, the ceo would not be able to pull down a six figure income, but i bet things could be run better with better patient outcomes because money wouldn't be the motivating factor (hopefully). there are a lot of government regulations, or course, but those things can be dealt with. i think it would fly with the right people. what do you guys think?
nothing wrong with getting paid a fair salary. but i'd have a hard time imagining any board of directors made up of a majority of nurses would allow this:
tenet healthcare ceo trevor fetter grabbed $9.5 million in the 2006 executive pay sweepstakes, according to the hospital chain's [color=#0253b7]proxy, which was filed this morning. not bad for a guy running a company whose stock underperformed industry peers by 16% in the past year and 107% in the past three years, according to [color=#0253b7]data calpers crunched in late february.
unbelievable! and i can't even get a raise that keeps up w/ the cost of living increase much less a retention bonus for 13 years uninterupted service.:angryfire
Yes, it does sound good in theory, but the bottom line is that even if nurses owned the hospital, the nurse at the top of the food chain would want to do one thing:make money. All of our management level people are former nurses who haven't worked the floor in years and have no clue how hard it is to manage too many patients. They don't care either, all they want to do is see that bonus check at the end of the year.
Pam
Great ideas here. A nurse-run hospital would have NO BONUSES! For anybody. And if patient satisfaction was down and was traceable in any way to poor staffing, the CEO and CNO would take a cut in pay or bennies. Yeah, take away that health club membership that is available only to the VIPs and that the regular staff doesn't have the time or energy for anyway.
If there were to be bonuses, make it a vote of the regular staff, not something that could be pencil whipped to look positive. Right now we have this gold tropy loving cup thing in our main entrance, in a nice glass case and spot lit with fancy lights. Something to do with Patient Satisfaction. I don't know one nurse who isn't really embarrassed by this because rather than that, would we rather have enough help! Oh, and I forgot, a nice glossy photo of guess who? the executives of course, is posted next to the tropy case.
Great ideas here. A nurse-run hospital would have NO BONUSES! For anybody. And if patient satisfaction was down and was traceable in any way to poor staffing, the CEO and CNO would take a cut in pay or bennies. Yeah, take away that health club membership that is available only to the VIPs and that the regular staff doesn't have the time or energy for anyway.
If there were to be bonuses, make it a vote of the regular staff, not something that could be pencil whipped to look positive. Right now we have this gold tropy loving cup thing in our main entrance, in a nice glass case and spot lit with fancy lights. Something to do with Patient Satisfaction. I don't know one nurse who isn't really embarrassed by this because rather than that, would we rather have enough help! Oh, and I forgot, a nice glossy photo of guess who? the executives of course, is posted next to the tropy case.
That's a great idea. Too bad that a hospital like that would be too expensive to get started. I doubt it would be hard to staff or get patients for it though.
Simply said, healthcare should not be for profit, ever. There in lies the problem.
Why not? What's wrong with healthcare making a profit? And why would anyone get into a healthcare field (whether as an individual, or starting a company) if they couldn't even have the possibility of making money on their efforts?
Love the idea. But - what company would be willing to insure a hospital run/owned by nurses? Would consultants be willing to allow their clients to go to a hospital run by nurses? Heck, how negative am I?
At the very least, nurses should look into working as Independant Contractors, and/or forming Professional Practice Groups, like doctors, and staffing the hospitals, like doctors do. We would have contracts with the hospitals, and insurance companies, and would write our own practice policies.
That is probably a more vialbe option, than owning a hospital. Just a thought.
THIS IS AMAZING!!! I was truly just playing with this very idea last week! No kidding. I have said for the past year or so that if I ever won the lottery, opening a nurse-run hospital is exactly what I'd do. I have even talked to my fiance about this several times (he is a GI doc), hoping that he would "catch the fever" and talk with his other doctor friends (potential investors) about this.
When I was thinking about this last week, I even played around with some numbers....just looking at the home page on here..."223,548+ members and growing". Just at first glance, if 50,000 of these members were to invest $5,000...look at the results...$250,000,000!!!!
Now, I have no idea what a hospital would cost, but I'd have to think with that kind of $$, it'd be one heck of a start. Technology would be a huge start up expense (MRI machines, etc.). And of course, I don't know how we could employ 50,000 nurses at one location....of course there is the concept of silent partners. I guess in my vision, as crazy as it may sound, the hospital would be so democratic that all of the nurse owners would also be the front line employees as well - perhaps in some kind of rotating fashion where 1 week out of every month nurses would be assigned administrative duties instead of nursing duties. I know that really sounds lofty, but I would not want anyone in an exclusively administrator role because in my opinion, they would eventually yield to the almighty $ as the primary focus. That is not to say that I am against profit....NOT AT ALL. But, the profit would truly have to be tempered with a utilitarian-like "happiness for all" factor (if that made any sense). The whole point of this concept is better patient care and happier nurses, as they are almost one in the same to some extent. Explain this vision/mission to anyone with average intelligence = probable donation?? What's in it for them? Obviously tax write offs and one of the most novel ways to give back to the community...and, potentially ensuring their own best healthcare needs later down the road when needed.
More thoughts on start up costs....again, another crazy idea, but here goes....celebrities!! Maybe someone like Oprah could help us get the word out?? I've heard Brad Pitt is a very benevolent man (and he tries to do his good works in secret). Come to think of it, Oprah herself has a track record of giving to worthy causes. How much $ did celebrities give to the 911 cause? Anyone remember Band-Aid's "We are the world" from the mid-80's? Now I would not want to disillusion potential donors that we nurses would be living in poverty and only working out of PURE altruism. Like I said before, optimal patient care and happy nurses...nurses who yes, live well off, but who are not rich and are not looking to become rich. And why not give to nurses....look at us! Out of all the choices a person has nowadays to make a living, we CHOOSE to care for people, increasing the quality of life of those suffering/facing health crises.
Just another silly thought....I've even wondered if such a dream place could have an anti-JCAHO philosophy too. Not to say that some of their ideas aren't good, but a great deal of them can be quite petty. I know, then there'd likely be the problem of dealing with insurance companies not wanting to pay for care rendered from a non-JCAHO-accredited institution. Insurance companies need to have far less power than they do, but that, my friends, is another thread!
In closing, maybe this is "dreamer" kind of stuff here, but it was nice to learn that I am not the only one dreaming the same dream! Kudos to Angie and Kenny for being bold enough to share their "think out of the box" ideas!
I guess in my vision, as crazy as it may sound, the hospital would be so democratic that all of the nurse owners would also be the front line employees as well - perhaps in some kind of rotating fashion where 1 week out of every month nurses would be assigned administrative duties instead of nursing duties. I know that really sounds lofty, but I would not want anyone in an exclusively administrator role because in my opinion, they would eventually yield to the almighty $ as the primary focus.
Perhaps you could vote for admins once a year. Give them their normal pay while they are in the job and then a reasonable bonus at the end of their admin. service? And term limits, once in every 5 years or so? Might run into problems w/ finding qualified nurses, but then if each was trained to do the job by the out going it might work. Only prob. I see is if nurses trained in admin. apply elsewhere for bigger pay and perks.
I guess in my vision, as crazy as it may sound, the hospital would be so democratic that all of the nurse owners would also be the front line employees as well - perhaps in some kind of rotating fashion where 1 week out of every month nurses would be assigned administrative duties instead of nursing duties. I know that really sounds lofty, but I would not want anyone in an exclusively administrator role because in my opinion, they would eventually yield to the almighty $ as the primary focus.
Perhaps you could vote for admins once a year. Give them their normal pay while they are in the job and then a reasonable bonus at the end of their admin. service? And term limits, once in every 5 years or so? Might run into problems w/ finding qualified nurses, but then if each was trained to do the job by the out going it might work. Only prob. I see is if nurses trained in admin. apply elsewhere for bigger pay and perks.
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fronkey bean
491 Posts
Several of the VP's at my hosp are nurses. Hasn't seemed to help.