I hope this is in the right thread. Sorry if its not! Anyway, I'm still a nursing student in my first year, so I don't know much about Neglect or Abuse, but I'm pretty sure I just witnessed it at my husbands doctor appointment yesterday? I'll just quick a quick pt history.
He has had diabetes since he was a kid (but in good health with a normal BMI), and now at the age of 26 he is having nerve pain and decreased sensation in his right foot. His primary doctor sent him to a specialist a few months ago who put him on steroids for a month while he waited for approval from our insurance for an MRI. Well, the insurance won't cover it so we decided to just pay out of pocket because his pain is getting unbearable (he has an addictive personality and he refuses to take Vicodin due to substance abuse in his teenage years - hes three years older than me - and says once he feels the euphoria he wants to take more, so we keep it away from him).
Now, here comes my question. The doctor was very polite, however his nurse must have been having a bad day since she started to get lippy from the beginning - after he told her about refusing the vicodin prescription. He also stated he couldn't afford a full back and foot MRI, that he could only pay for the foot. They exchanged some words after her protest of "just the foot", and I just put in some input to help ease the situation (we're paying for my school tuition, we can't afford a $2,000+ test, etc..). Well, then she decided that the MRI he needed wasn't urgent since he wasn't willing to get everything done (even though his pain is almost a constant 9/10) and told the MRI agency it could put "put off" - she scheduled it for 3 months away. I pulled the doctor aside and explained what happened, and she said she would reschedule the MRI for as soon as possible and call us when she got word of a sooner opening.
So is that nurse abuse, or standard practice of "subjective data" i.e., he doesn't want both so it can't be that necessary or urgent? Would just like some feedback from other nurses on the process. I'm not worried about reporting the nurse or anything since his doctor fixed it and thats all we really wanted, and he still has to go back for another appointment to go over the MRI results and he doesn't want to be "that patient" that is dreaded at the office
There seems to be a couple of different issues happening here.
First off, we can not give medical advice per TOS, however, just as a thought process, seemingly, the pain your husband is experiencing may not have a thing to do with his diabetes. Which likely, diabetic nerve pain would not show up on an MRI. There are many other options besides narcotic pain meds to help with nerve pain. If you are not getting what you need from you PCP, then I would get a referral to a diabetes specialist to discuss options.
If I am understanding correctly, OP, because of the nerve pain, it has caused your husband to limp, which has contributed to a change in function and further pain which can be investigated by an MRI. I would see what you could do to again go back to your insurance and state that--it is not the nerve issues that has caused the "new" pain, however, it is the resulting gait change that has done so. Resulting in a loss of function. AND your MD should be more specific with that as seemingly it comes across as this is all about the nerve pain specifically. And that can be sometimes controlled and helped with PT and other medications that are not narcotics.
I don't know what to say about the nurse's attitude about all of this. There seems to have been a major miscommunication as to why the MD ordered the MRI--and pointed more toward a neuropathy issue as opposed to a gait issue (that resulted from the neuropathy--if I make sense here). Don't ever hesitate to get clarification. ie: WHY is the MRI a non-urgent? WHY can we not have other non-narcotic pain options? CAN we talk about how to control neuropathy? SHOULD we see a diabetic MD who can discuss this further? CAN we try PT for the muscle issues.....
Bottom line--treat both issues seperately. Be as pro-active and specific as possible. The nurse may not have been professional, but you can and should maintain a "how, why, can we" line of questioning.
@alisonisayoshi - Thanks for the insight. I appreciate the constructive criticism and non-attacks. It's near *impossible* to get your message across without rubbing someone the wrong way due to lack of body language and tone on online forms, so I appreciate you understanding my demeanor.
I am not here to attack nurses, or this one in particular, yet the vibe I get from some people is that they really believe there are *no* bad nurses out there There are always a few bad apples in every bunch, and coming here for support and insight, I expected a bit more professionalism and maturity from one of the highest held public professions. I don't have many others to turn too for advice (I'm a military wife - fiancee actually, but after 8 years you're pretty much married! - and we move a lot). So I do appreciate the ones who still take their nurse ethics with them and apply them outside of work. Thanks everyone
This is a public forum.
You can start a topic but you don't own it. It will never be yours exclusively.
You may hear (read) things you don't like, or the topic may go off in ways you never thought possible.
Take what you think is relevant and leave the rest.
Pick your battles, because, really does anyone win an internet go round?
If something is offensive, report it.
I do need to say that coming out with the 'nurse ethics' comment doesn't really enhance your creditability or champion your cause.
If you want unquestioning support of defaming a nurse (or someone you think is a nurse, whether they actually are or not), perhaps student doctor dot net would be a better place to go.
Sure, there are bad nurses. But on a forum for nurses, I'm not going to immediately assume one of my colleagues is a "bad apple" on the mere say so of a random member of the public. Considering the stupid things I've had people complain about me doing and the stupid complaints I've received about my fellow nurses that I know for a fact were complete BS, I take complaints about nurses with a huge grain of salt. If I want to hear how horrible nurses are, I'll go somewhere that's not for nurses to commiserate. There are plenty of those places if you only want to hear how horrible and mean that so-called nurse was to you.
I think the nurse, knowing you could not afford all the MRIs, was trying to be considerate and schedule it 3 months out so you could have some leeway and save for it, or maybe figured the foot MRI would show you all you need to know and not need the other MRI... maybe she didnt know that it was urgently needed, nurses are not mind readers either, maybe it was not communicated to her by the doc that it was urgent. Many times communication breakdown causes errors and it is not necessarily abuse or neglect, and no harm was caused to your husband, so it legally would not fit that definition. I would tread very lightly when throwing those terms around because they are very specific legal terms and in our litiginous society, nurses are on high alert for pts that are "out" for them and a lawsuit, because people like that are everywhere.
I have neuropathic pain NOT related to diabetes, and it was my experience that an MRI was not needed, nor did it change the treatment plan. In years of palliative care, the bottom line question regarding any test is "Will this change the treatment plan, or give us information that will impact medication or treatment?"
I have also had good results with gabapentin, which is also DIRT cheap, by the way.
Otherwise, you ran into a staff member who may or may not have been a nurse who was either trying to help you or being a *****, depending on how you look at it. Life is going to throw a LOT more than this at you, and becoming a nurse will triple your chances to learn and cope. I would shrug this off and go on your way.....it is a tiny blip in the radar of life.
So I slept on it last night and woke up feeling much more clear-headed. And I apologize to Nola - it is very hard for me to see my husband go through this as running is his life. I made it a bit personal, the nurses advances, through unclear thinking and anger because of this. I am still young and realize I DO have a lot of things to learn But I appreciate tough-love and honesty. We both come from a military family and part of the way I learn is to get the black and white aspect of it, cut and dry. I hate beating around the bush - I'm a very forward person so sorry if I sounded like an "attacker" - that for sure was not my intent
So I slept on it last night and woke up feeling much more clear-headed. And I apologize to Nola - it is very hard for me to see my husband go through this as running is his life. I made it a bit personal, the nurses advances, through unclear thinking and anger because of this. I am still young and realize I DO have a lot of things to learn But I appreciate tough-love and honesty. We both come from a military family and part of the way I learn is to get the black and white aspect of it, cut and dry. I hate beating around the bush - I'm a very forward person so sorry if I sounded like an "attacker" - that for sure was not my intent
Yes, you did attack me and it looks like that WAS your original intention. Thanks for your apology all the same. Your post did strike a nerve in me and I will quickly explain why -- It is all too common for people to misplace their frustrations (anger, grief, feeling helpless) onto nurses. THAT is abuse. Please expect professionalism out of heath care workers, not sainthood. I still suspect that your husband's nurse (or MA) was feeling pulled in different directions due to your requests, and might have scheduled the appointment further out bc you said you couldn't afford it, or some other reason beyond her control. Hopefully this situation gets sorted out to your satisfaction and that your husband gets the treatment he needs.:)
I won't go on student doc or those websites anymore. I've came across too many pages of members bashing nurses, laughing about "stupid things stupid nurses say", bad teachers this, bad teachers that, "Nurse Ratchet was working today", "Nurses unite like fat kids at the dessert bar", etc.. etc.. It takes a lot to walk away from immaturity like that and still feel your pride intact after multiple, unsuccessful times to defend your career and future colleagues from those you are supposed to work next too. So I came here after putting that place behind me to get more honest reasoning, and not just what I "thought" I would hear. (If anyone expects to come to a Nurse based website and expect "positive" advice on bad things nurses do from other nurses defending their careers - they need the literal **** of common sense shaked in them - and I'm aware of that) You don't go on a "Cop" website and say "Hey, so how many cops here are the 'bad cops' posted all over social media?"
I also don't really know what is meant by "championing your cause" though, because I don't have a cause I'm fighting for really. I'm just a firm believer in taking ethics everywhere when your name has a professional title placed after it. I see nothing wrong with that, and won't change it, even if it upsets others - of course others will feel differently, and that's fine. But it won't change my moral views.
I've seen some bad nurse judgement before - two girls played Hide-N-Seek through the hallway (in the ED) all the way to my father's room to tell him he had appendicitis and was going to be prepped for surgery, still grinning and out of breathe from their game. I've worked for another nurse in the hospital who wouldn't be bothered to get a patient a cup of water even if a pitcher was sitting on her med cart, but would roam the unit instead for 5 minutes looking for one of us to get it - she was funny like that though, she refused to change pads, reposition patients, take vitals unless absolutely necessary; the other nurses couldn't stand her and called her Nurse Diva.
But you know what? For each bad experience, I've had 100 more good ones. I've seen nurses at my work take a woman's clothing to the laundromat on her break because housekeeping was slacking and she had nothing to wear. I've seen them buy food out of their pockets to give their patient a "little somethin" to curve their sweet tooth at 2 am when the kitchen was closed. When I worked in home health, one of my favorite client's nurse would borrow him her movies knowing she may not get them back if reassigned. One time she came by and dropped off a present for his granddaughter, a stuffed animal and candy, because he couldn't afford anything for her birthday. I could go on and on about the little things that one person may have not noticed or taken for granted. I can't verify this story, as it my Clinical professor told it and I wasn't there, but shes a midwife and started to get emotional so *I* believe it, but after delivering a stillborn for a woman, she ran out to the store and bought a clay footprint set so the mother could take her steps with her. A lot of my classmates don't like her, but she is my favorite teacher. (And she may or may not look just like an aged version of the redhead receptionist on Mad Man, and walk and talk like her, but thats not why shes my favorite ). So I also don't understand why some feel I am abusing all nurses (which the word abuse was just debunked in this conversation and its clear my curiosity is not abuse) just because I just joined, when I only mentioned one. I understand you all stick together, but realize I did just join so no one knows me from the wall next to them, nor how highly I view nurses, even with the a few bad ones. And I do plan on staying with this webpage, for further insight (good and bad), knowledge, and experience. We all had to start somewhere, so I'm sorry if I started out on the wrong side of a few of you - just know I'll change your mind as time goes on
I just skimmed this thread as I wrestle with a cranky toddler, so if something was already addressed or explained, my apologies.
1. Gab: either gabapentin (Neurontin) or to talk/chat with someone.
2. Not getting an appointment at the time you desire is not considered abuse or neglect.
3. Just because you think something should be urgent doesn't mean it really is urgent. Student nurse or otherwise.
4. I wasn't there to witness the exchange between you and the nurse, so I won't comment on whether she was rude to you. I will say that it can be hard to see things objectively when you are emotionally invested in the matter...as you clearly are, given that it's your husband involved.
Does this mean I think you're entirely in the wrong or that this nurse wasn't rude? No. Again, I wasn't there and I'm only hearing one side of the story.
But at the same time, I also think that you may be quick to see things colored with your emotions instead of rationally, especially when things didn't go your way in the beginning. Not surprising, as this is your husband: you're going to care about things a hell of a lot more than you would had it been your neighbor's friend's cousin's son.
That is something to keep in mind, especially when you do finally become a nurse and have to deal with patients and their families.
I'm glad he was able to get the earlier appointment. I hope everything works out.
What I don't understand is if you are a military spouse (your words) why isn't your husband getting priority access to healthcare. Here in Canada, military, police are given priority access to things like MRIs. A worker injured on the job is sped through the systems as well. The cost of prescription drugs shouldn't be an issue either as service personnel are fully covered for this.
It sounds as if your military doesn't take care of their personnel all that well.
What I don't understand is if you are a military spouse (your words) why isn't your husband getting priority access to healthcare. Here in Canada, military, police are given priority access to things like MRIs. A worker injured on the job is sped through the systems as well. The cost of prescription drugs shouldn't be an issue either as service personnel are fully covered for this.
It sounds as if your military doesn't take care of their personnel all that well.
He could go to a military facility for treatment--in fact, if he's active duty military he had no choice but to go there unless the situation is life-threatening. But military facilities are often backlogged because they're treating both active duty and a fair number of retirees as well as spouses; getting an appointment for specialty care can take weeks to months.
Prescriptions would be covered if filled at a military facility or by mail-order through the military's contractor...but again, that's not a timely process either.
He could go to a military facility for treatment--in fact, if he's active duty military he had no choice but to go there unless the situation is life-threatening--but those facilities are often backlogged, and getting an appointment can take weeks to months. Prescriptions would be covered if filled at a military facility or by mail-order through the military's contractor...but again, that's not a timely process either.
That's where we are different. Our personnel go straight to the head of the line in whatever province they are stationed in. Police injured on the job just like any other worker go to the top. If they can't make it to camp to have their meds filled, they are refunded. Having said that, I've known hospital pharmacists issue enough "carry" meds to cover their needs until returning to camp.
Anyway, I'm still a nursing student in my first year, so I don't know much about Neglect or Abuse, but I'm pretty sure I just witnessed it at my husbands doctor appointment yesterday? I'll just quick a quick pt history.
There are always a few bad apples in every bunch, and coming here for support and insight, I expected a bit more professionalism and maturity from one of the highest held public professions. I don't have many others to turn too for advice (I'm a military wife - fiancee actually, but after 8 years you're pretty much married! - and we move a lot). So I do appreciate the ones who still take their nurse ethics with them and apply them outside of work. Thanks everyone 
But I appreciate tough-love and honesty. We both come from a military family and part of the way I learn is to get the black and white aspect of it, cut and dry. I hate beating around the bush - I'm a very forward person so sorry if I sounded like an "attacker" - that for sure was not my intent 
I've worked for another nurse in the hospital who wouldn't be bothered to get a patient a cup of water even if a pitcher was sitting on her med cart, but would roam the unit instead for 5 minutes looking for one of us to get it - she was funny like that though, she refused to change pads, reposition patients, take vitals unless absolutely necessary; the other nurses couldn't stand her and called her Nurse Diva. 
). So I also don't understand why some feel I am abusing all nurses (which the word abuse was just debunked in this conversation and its clear my curiosity is not abuse) just because I just joined, when I only mentioned one. I understand you all stick together, but realize I did just join so no one knows me from the wall next to them, nor how highly I view nurses, even with the a few bad ones. And I do plan on staying with this webpage, for further insight (good and bad), knowledge, and experience. We all had to start somewhere, so I'm sorry if I started out on the wrong side of a few of you - just know I'll change your mind as time goes on 
jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B
9 Articles; 4,800 Posts
There seems to be a couple of different issues happening here.
First off, we can not give medical advice per TOS, however, just as a thought process, seemingly, the pain your husband is experiencing may not have a thing to do with his diabetes. Which likely, diabetic nerve pain would not show up on an MRI. There are many other options besides narcotic pain meds to help with nerve pain. If you are not getting what you need from you PCP, then I would get a referral to a diabetes specialist to discuss options.
If I am understanding correctly, OP, because of the nerve pain, it has caused your husband to limp, which has contributed to a change in function and further pain which can be investigated by an MRI. I would see what you could do to again go back to your insurance and state that--it is not the nerve issues that has caused the "new" pain, however, it is the resulting gait change that has done so. Resulting in a loss of function. AND your MD should be more specific with that as seemingly it comes across as this is all about the nerve pain specifically. And that can be sometimes controlled and helped with PT and other medications that are not narcotics.
I don't know what to say about the nurse's attitude about all of this. There seems to have been a major miscommunication as to why the MD ordered the MRI--and pointed more toward a neuropathy issue as opposed to a gait issue (that resulted from the neuropathy--if I make sense here). Don't ever hesitate to get clarification. ie: WHY is the MRI a non-urgent? WHY can we not have other non-narcotic pain options? CAN we talk about how to control neuropathy? SHOULD we see a diabetic MD who can discuss this further? CAN we try PT for the muscle issues.....
Bottom line--treat both issues seperately. Be as pro-active and specific as possible. The nurse may not have been professional, but you can and should maintain a "how, why, can we" line of questioning.
Best wishes.