nurse call response times in Ontario hospitals

Nurses Safety

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Hello, all. To introduce myself, I am not a nurse; rather, I am the son of an elderly patient - my father - currently in hospital in Mississauga, ON. In fact, I am writing this from his bedside.

My father, 84, is suffering from renal failure and also has severe dementia and has been plagued with both for many years now. My mother, 77, has cared for him at home all this time. It has been a very rough road for a very long time, but with tremendous care from my mother and his doctor, he has - sadly in a very real way - persevered. That said, his doctor explained that should he ever need to go to the hospital again, there would not be much he could do, going so far as to recommend getting a DNR form registered. We agreed as a family and my mother has done so.

He is now in hospital since last Tuesday as he had experienced a severe increase in fatigue to the point where couldn't walk. The ER doctors explained that his creatinine level was 500 - very high. What we thought was just a rash from diapers turns out to shingles. They confirmed everything we had already established about not treating him any further and that we are looking a palliative situation. They were quite compassionate and we all prepared for the end. We were told we would be admitted and they would do everything possible to keep him comfortable. In a way, this was very much a relief as my mother was at the end of her rope and unable to care for him any more. That's when things went south.

Without getting into too many sordid details, the net result is that the care we have received since being admitted feels woefully inadequate. We have been in the hospital a few times before, so we understand the disjointed nature of the doctor-nurse-hospital relationship, but this round has been the worst.

First, we were never advised that the shingles outbreak would warrant isolation. The first night nurse saw the chart and went into a frenzy installing a HEPA filter in the room and getting everyone into gowns and masks.

The next day, this man who has no gas in the tank still has the werewithal to want to relieve himself in the bathroom. We - my mother, brother, and myself - don't know what to do, so we try and get him there using a comode chair. We're successful a couple of times, but one time not. Mess on the floor. Nurse calls are usually answered immediatly, but no one actually shows up for several minutes - usually well over 10 or 15 - while my dad is sitting in, and staring at, his own feces. Nurses walk into the room asking us what supplies we have. Gowns, masks, diapers - nothing's ready.

Later that day, after talking to a palliative care doctor and going through this conversation again, we were transferred to a negative pressure room. Again, supplies are constantly lacking. At one point, again after a bathroom call, I see the nurse running around looking for a fresh night gown and bed pad. No bed pad - using another night gown instead. Wait times have gone through the roof. Usually 30 minutes or more now.

My father has been issued sedatives to sleep at night so he doesn't try to get up on his own. My mother being my mother, is sleeping with him in his room every night. First room had a spot to lay down, new room does not - we brought in our own cot. Nevertheless, last night, my mom did not notice my had had gotten himself up and halfway to the bathroom. Thankfully she got to him just in time to catch his fall. No time to ring the nurse. After she finally situated him so she could call, it took more minutes than I would expect to respond - 5 or more, as I understand. What would have happened had she not been here? He's behind double doors as it is, then stuck in the bathroom to boot with no comprehesion that he's even in a hospital. When my mother raised the notion of a bed alarm, they told her there were none available. I may well spend the night tonight for fear of another fall.

As for nurse compassion, it's up and down, but mostly down. We've had really great and compassionate nurses at times - they are angels that make a world of difference. We haven't really had that this time, and most just don't care at all. We had one nurse who I guess just assumed my dad was deaf because he's old and literally yelled at him while he's half out of it. It startled the hell out of him and he yelled back at her. It's a revolving door of nurses here - usually no more than 2 days in a row with the same nurse and we are always starting from scratch trying to explain the situation and my dad's needs.

All this is to say nothing of the unbelievable lack of cleanliness throughout the public areas of the hospital - gobs of dust everywhere, blood on the walls in the bathroom (something I immediately brought to someone's attention, only to find it cleaned over 24 hours later), and on and on. This whole situation is feeling a little sureal. But I digress.

I apologise - too many sordid details after all!

Back to my primary question. Compassion and supply issues aside, what can/should I expect for nurse response times in a hospital in Ontario? Should it matter if the patient is in isolation? I intend to bring the whole situation up with patient relations - at the suggestion of one of the doctors, and I know I can't change the world overnight, but I would at least like to get an idea of what I should be expecting. If nothing else, to ease my and my family's own minds.

Any insight is appreciated and if you have bothered to read this far, my gratitude for allowing me a chance to vent a little.

Well, to your point about being on break, all I can say is "yeah, exactly". This is a specific item that I guess I don't understand enough, i.e. the nature of nurse duties vs. PSWs vs. the girls that seemingly just sit at the desk and do paging and admin. Can't non-nurse resources make sure that there are enough supplies around, etc.? Really, nurses should be focused on keeping their meds organized, not the linens.

I have a friend who's father who has terminal cancer. His father is still able to cope at home, but by my friend's account, they have been getting amazing support from CCAC all along, have a great palliative care doctor already assisting them since his diagnosis, and the local hospice lined up for when he can no longer stay at home. He, is from a smaller town though. We, on the other hand, are in the GTA. I cannot help but wonder if that doesn't play a role here. We have a clear view of the Fast Track department of the ER from our room and it is usually anywhere from busy to crazy 24 hours a day. That, of course, is a bit of a moot point - we are where we are, but I can't help but envy the care my friend describes. CCAC support here has been, at least for us, a bit of a joke.

Again, though, much of this centers around the dementia, both in and out of the hospital. Our health care system just hasn't caught up to where it needs to be. I am now instantly angered everytime someone asks my father what year it is. For pete's sake, look at his freakin' file. And don't dismiss me when I try to explain it to you either.

Anyway, I'm getting riled up here and off-topic. Back to the discussion of nursing, I will try and follow up with patient-relations next week and plan on a few more over-nighters.

Yes, there is a palliative care unit here, but apparently only for those who expectancy is measured in days. There is another facility for "weeks", and yet another for "months". That's why the results of the monitoring are important, so we are to understand.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Sometimes it's a case of literally not having the supplies or if he is in isolation they are maybe just not handy. On a busy floor supplies dwindle quickly.

The staff that ask him the year are assessing his orientation. You have to do your own assessment even if they are known to be confused. Yes there specific roles for nurses, ward clerks and PSWs. Have you talked to discharge planning about palliating at home?

I understand the need for independent assessment, but there is a humilation factor there. Just too close to situation and the patient, I guess.

We've discussed palliating at home with both the nephrologists and the one palliative doctor we've met with. We've concluded that it is not really an option for us at this point. Again, the dementia is the biggest issue, creating scenarios that my mother can no longer deal with. On top of that, their home is not really suitable, given that is a multi-level home with too many stairs. We have looked at this closely and how to try and make it feasible, but it's just too impractical. My mom is herself a heart patient, having had a heart attack about 10 years ago. She is in amazing shape all things considered, but has definitely reached her limit.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Yeah that would make it difficult. Most people set up a hospital bed on the main floor to make it easier. But it sounds like it would be too much for your Mom.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Have you looked into hospice houses?

No, not yet. We are hoping we will get some direction on that from the palliative doctor at some point.

Withoug going too far off topic, our particular situation is (I'm assuming) a little unique in that my mother, for all her strengths and seemingly endless ability to dig deeper, finds vitually impossible to face these sorts of outcomes. She is almost too caring at times, if you can understand what I mean by that, driven by the fear that giving up means the end will come too soon - hence the unfathomable drive. This then, too, applies to the notion of planning. To plan for the future is to give up on the present. My brother and I have faced this for years now and are resigned to fact that we must play it as it comes at her pace. We did, at one point much earlier this year, finally get her to line up for CCAC managed long-term care. It was all we could do to get her to visit just one of the facilities, which she did with me. I can tell you quite honestly, it almost broke her. As much as we can see her point at times, it does leave us only ever managing day to day. We care for her very much, of course, and so we do not want to see her in distress and so only push so far. More practically - and selfishly, we each both have our own families, jobs, etc. We already commit a tremendous amount of time providing support to her. At the risk of sounding indelicate, we know that without her, we would be facing a much more unpleasant situation all around. And so, day to day it is.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Palliative doctors will not have much info about resources. You need to speak to Discharge Planning, CCAC or a social worker. You can likely contact hospice houses yourself as well.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Tell your mom that you need to prepare for his comfort during this final journey. Sadly I see families that do refuse to accept the inevitable.

Thanks - that is good insight. I will keep that in mind as we move through next week. My mom is now all but resigned to the near future and, as always, wants his comfort to come first. It's just that it's only now that she's come to grips with the fact that she is no longer his best option. Planning will be relatively much easier now, it's just a little late in the cycle. Hopefully that doesn't hinder our options too much. Thank you again for all of your time and insight this evening. It really has been a great help.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Ok. Take care and let us know how it's going

Sounds like a private duty nurse would be a good fit for you. With institutional chronic understaffing in place do not expect call lights to be answered in a timely manner. Nurses can't bilocate, and are asked to do more than they have time to do. Also keep in mind you live with socialized medicine and socialized medicine = rationed care. Well your experience is what staff and time rationing in hospitals looks like.

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